How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Philthy]

No, that’s not what it is saying. The baptism is an act of obedience, [/frodo]

You said facts are facts. One fact we know for sure - baptism is never once described in scripture as an “act of obedience”. Try to at least hold yourself to the standards you establish if you wish others to do the same.
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frodo:
but it is merely an outward showing of what happens inside.

Again, this never once spoken in Scripture - that is the fact. I cant think of a single reason why, if what you claim regarding baptism is true, that we would be “obligated” to be baptized - what does it accomplish? Nothing.

frodo:
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; The washing is not baptism. It is the washing by the Holy Ghost.

Again - Scripture doesnt make such a distinction, you simply claim it does. In fact, as it has been out a number of times Scripture does say that Baptism is a cleansing of the soul “not as dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God” - remember? You had to twist those verses as well to make Scripture “say” what it does not.

 

[maurin]

And what is the meaning of this one?

See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24.

IF what you say is true, then it seems the Scriptures are contradicting themselves. Now we both know the Scriptures are infallible, because the infallible Church Christ founded taught you so about 1,600 years ago.

It seems your interpretation of Paul is not quite what Paul had in mind.

Hello, Frodo.

I fear you must have missed this post of mine amongst all the others.

Might I ask you to have a look-see?

thanks
maurin

 

[jmcrae]

Just like it was “poltically correct” for 1400 years for the catholic church to MURDER christians. Read the book and by the way, are all of it’s sources lying as well?

Why in the world would the Catholic Church murder Christians? Are you talking about heretics? If so, the majority died of either natural causes (Arius dropped dead of a heart attack when he failed to genuflect towards the Tabernacle - nobody even touched him) or else they were found guilty of civil crimes and given the death penalty by the State. To the best of my knowledge, the Church has never had any authority to kill people.

By the way, Constantine’s mother was Catholic, long before he was even born. She was an archaologist, and she is credited with discovering the True Cross.

How did she manage to join a Church that hadn’t even been founded yet?

 

[SFLCatholic]

They just keep coming out of the woodwork.

 

[Dispector]

I know I’m late in the thread… but the poll is skewed by not offering an answer that Catholics would naturally answer as ‘Yes’. I don’t think any one of those answers alone would give you a “Get-in-Free” card to heaven.

:twocents:

 

[SFLCatholic]

Just like it was “poltically correct” for 1400 years for the catholic church to MURDER christians. Read the book and by the way, are all of it’s sources lying as well?

Here is a link to download the entire book:

ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/begin.htm

By the way, the first catholic was constantine. He merged the pegan religion in with Christianity and came up with catholisim. That’s why they keep all those idols around still to this day. Therefore, peter wasn’t the first pope of the catholic church as your church contends. He was murdered by nero of rome.

When you click on the link the first chapter covers how the disciples were murdered, except for the apostle John.

This rabid anti-Catholicism is ridiculous. You really need to do some research before you post such comments.

 

[SFLCatholic]

I know I’m late in the thread… but the poll is skewed by not offering an answer that Catholics would naturally answer as ‘Yes’. I don’t think any one of those answers alone would give you a “Get-in-Free” card to heaven.

:twocents:

Read some of the quotes by the person who started the thread and I think you will see why it is skewed.

I am amazed at the ignorance of the OP. Sounds like Jack Chick is alive and well.

 

[SFLCatholic]

Just like it was “poltically correct” for 1400 years for the catholic church to MURDER christians. Read the book and by the way, are all of it’s sources lying as well?

Here is a link to download the entire book:

ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/begin.htm

By the way, the first catholic was constantine. He merged the pegan religion in with Christianity and came up with catholisim. That’s why they keep all those idols around still to this day. Therefore, peter wasn’t the first pope of the catholic church as your church contends. He was murdered by nero of rome.

When you click on the link the first chapter covers how the disciples were murdered, except for the apostle John.

Frodobaggins,

Did you know you are using the name of a character from a book written by an author who was devoutly Roman Catholic?

 

[Philthy]

If obedience does not save, does disobedience condemn? That is, can you be saved despite disobedience to the commandments of Christ? If so, to what degree? How disobedient can you be?

We’ve already been down this road - it was ignored by our friend frodobaggins. I asked point blank:

“Just stop and think for a second: does you obedience to the 10 Commandments “deal with” your salvation? Of course it does - if you are not obeying them, can you really say that you “believe in the Son”? I can tell you what Christ says: “Whoever has my commands and observes them is the one who loves me and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father and I will love him and reveal myself to him.” Note that such language speaks of an ONGOING relationship - observes, will be loved, I will love, etc.”

I went on to explain other conflicting issues in his soteriology. The post was ignored. I even reposted later because the issues kept recurring and I thought he may have missed it. No response again. I also posted the following in a separate post to illustrate how Scripture clearly contradicts his salvation message that obedience is not a requirement for salvation…

philthy:

Interesting. Paul seemed to have a different take on that:
1 Cor 6:10
"Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God" Gosh its so confusing - frodobaggins says one thing and Paul says another…who to believe, who to believe…

Again, no response has come. Now I see you heading down the same path with frodo. Just know in advance that he apparently does not have an answer to “what Scripture says”(his term). He simply has the inclination to regurgitate the same limited, distorted, unfounded and unsupportable interpretations as if everyone else has the same denominational blinders that he has and that no one is paying attention to the trail of inconsistencies and outright errors. At this point it seems like prayer would be the best option, not analytical reasoning…

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

O Frodo Baggins!

Do you see the irony in your Forum name?

BUMP

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Frodobaggins,

Did you know you are using the name of a character from a book written by an author who was devoutly Roman Catholic?

Frodo Baggins, the hobbit, was not Catholic.

 

[runandsew]

Frodo Baggins, the hobbit, was not Catholic.

I know that he had large hairy feet, but did he have a personal relationship with Christ?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Wrong. We are judged by the word of God. What do you think believing in Christ is? It’s placing your FAITH in HIM for salvation. The bible clearly states that this is the only way to heaven. Here are some verses regarding faith…

I don’t think you read my post thoroughly. I quoted Matthew 25:31-46 in which Jesus tells of the Coming of the Son of Man who will place judgement upon all nations and divide them individually; separating the goats from the sheep so to speak.

In the reading which I provided you. The Son of Man blessed the righteous and welcome them in the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world. Why did they gain heaven? Well, we see that Jesus said, “When I was hungry you fed me.” They did this out of the love of God; not by themselves. The merciful acts of the righteous pleased the Lord and they received their just rewards.

On those who did not show any consideration for their fellow man, because they did not failed not feed the hungry. Jesus put it simply, “For I was hungry and you gave me no food.” What is their reward. Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of my brethrens, you did not it not to me.”
These unrighteous men and women, they went to the eternal fires prepared for them.

Yes, I do believe in Jesus, I also believe that we keep the commandments. All of them. Not of fear but out of love. Love of God brings out the love of neighbor. Obedience to God’s law. If Jesus say we feed the hungry, if we are able to, we should. Because it is pleasing and very Christian.

Faith in God is very important. But you can stick with just faith and cherry pick it. You have to take into account everything that Jesus taught.

My friend. We are not judge by faith, we are judge by God, the Final Judge of all things to Come.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Really? That is not what my Bible says.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works.

Matthew 25:31-46 reads:
31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. 46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting. Catholics believe every word of those verses! The problem, (for you at least) is that we do not believe your personal interpretation of them, which asserts that we are save by “faith alone” which is not what the Word of God teaches. Sola Fide - Salvation by Faith Alone

You know, Michael, I quote Matthew 25:31-46 and frodo just say it is wrong. I don’t know what Bible frodo is reading but he just ignore that we are judge by our deeds by Our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Al_Masetti]

There was this young Jewish boy living in Brooklyn. Just a few years ago. Went to the local Jewish school. Studious kid. One day he was walking home from school, half daydreaming. Minding his own business. When he suddenly heard a cry for help. He looked up and saw some young girl … someone he didn’t know … being pulled into a van … a kidnapping. The girl was struggling, but the man pulled her into the van.

No one else saw it. The young boy … maybe 12 years old … dropped his books and ran after the van, jumped onto the back bumper and held on to the back door hinge with his finger tips.

He yelled for help, for the police. Somehow, the police did get the call and they stopped the van. The girl was rescued unharmed and the two men were arrested.

Unfortunately in the chase, the young boy was thrown from the van and was killed.

I heard an interview on the radio with the boy’s father who was grief stricken. He said that he believed that the boy’s entire purpose in life was to be at that exact spot at that exact moment with all that he had read and studied and to rescue that girl.

---

Now … the question is: did that young Jewish boy get to heaven?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Did he get into heaven?

“Whatsoever you do for the least of my brothers, you did it for Me.”

This young boy saved the life of a girl, at the cost of his own life.

“No greater love than this, than a man should lay down his life for another”.

What is the greatest commandment?
The first and greatest commandment: to love the Lord with your whole heart, soul, mind and strength. And the second is like unto it: To love your neighbor as yourself.

God is perfect mercy and perfect justice.

Did the boy get into heaven?
We can, from all that we know of God, hope that this boy did; and trust that whatever was decided was perfectly just, and right, and true.

 

[jmcrae]

Now … the question is: did that young Jewish boy get to heaven?

We obviously have no way of knowing. Equally obviously, from the point of view of human judgement, he certainly “deserves” it, if anyone can possibly “deserve” it. He was certainly a hero, in the proper sense of the word.

 

[Church_Militant]

You know, Michael, I quote Matthew 25:31-46 and frodo

just say it is wrong. I don’t know what Bible frodo is reading but he just ignore that we are judge by our deeds by Our Lord Jesus Christ.I understand what you mean Manny.

Still since he is one that asserts that the Bible is the sole authority for all he believes it is appropriate to offer scripture (which again, is his asserted sole and final authority) which shows that what he has stated as his belief is actually contradicted by the Word of God. If he rejects that then it is for the Holy Spirit to convict him and lead him into truth.

He may seem to ignore it (as do so many other n-Cs that dialog or debate with us), but what does the Word of God say about that?

Psalm 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy face? 8 If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I descend into hell, thou art present. 9 If I take my wings early in the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea: 10 Even there also shall thy hand lead me: and thy right hand shall hold me. 11 And I said: Perhaps darkness shall cover me: and night shall be my light in my pleasures. 12 But darkness shall not be dark to thee, and night shall be light as day: the darkness thereof, and the light thereof are alike to thee.

But remember…(Psalm 99)
[1] The LORD reigns; let the peoples tremble!
He sits enthroned upon the cherubim; let the earth quake!
[2] The LORD is great in Zion;
he is exalted over all the peoples.
[3] Let them praise thy great and terrible name!
Holy is he!
[4] Mighty King, lover of justice,
thou hast established equity;
thou hast executed justice
and righteousness in Jacob.
[5] Extol the LORD our God;
worship at his footstool!
Holy is he!

[SIGN]The Lord ALWAYS wins![/SIGN]

 

[Church_Militant]

Frodo Baggins, the hobbit, was not Catholic.

I don’t know Scott…His lifestyle sure seems to sound like our friend Hillare Belloc’s poem when he says.

The Catholic Sun

Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s laughter and dancing and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!

 

[SFLCatholic]

I was looking at the poll results. It suspiciously skewed.

Would anyone know if you can vote multiple times on these polls? Does it register IP addresses or screen names?

It seems to me that if these results are accurate, only Protestants have been voting. I would further assume that the results will be tallied to substantiate the OPs original claims.

If thats the case and my assumptions are correct, I would like to interject this ahead of time.

Pope Benedict XVI said that the Catholic Church is not a democracy but a theocracy. (I don’t remember the exact quote. If someone knows it, please post it.)

And since that’s the case, any interpretation of poll results to prove a point that somehow Catholicism is wrong because the people have spoken, just remember the Pope’s quote.