How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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James does tell us, “Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?”

What do YOU get from this verse above, frodobaggins? Doesn’t this mean that you must do His will also–yes Faith is as important–as Jesus teaches in Mt 25?

Where does Baptism fit in? “Truly truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” Cf Jn 3:4-5, 22.

St. Peter is maybe even more explicit: 1Pet:3:21: Whereunto baptism, being of the like form [Cf verse 20], now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection Jesus Christ.
 
The worst problem with that poll is that all those options are valid to some degree or other according to the Word of God, and that makes it confusing, which in turn provides the messed up results that you see so far.

All those options are valid for getting into heaven?
Praying to Mary will get you into heaven?
Doing good works will get you to heaven?
Please quote scripture and verse.
Also refute Eph 2:8-9
 
misslollipops said:
Frodo. I read your posts with much interest.
It seems you read your bible and have some understanding.
I especially like when you quote scripture and verse to support your position.
After reading much of this thread, I am wondering about all those who voted in the poll and chose “other” when refering to salvation.
I would love to know what they mean by “other”.
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I chose “other” because I am saved by the grace of God. It is because of God’s grace that I have been given the gift of faith, it is God’s grace that forgave my sins through baptism, it is by God’s grace that I can let my light so shine before men that they may see my good works and glorify the Father in Heaven. 👍

'Tis Grace hath brought me safe thus far, and Grace will lead me Home.":crossrc:
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith
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; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

It says we are saved by grace through FAITH. Grace is what we cannot do for ourselves."Your right absolutely saved by Grace.GRACE ALONE (not Faith Alone) THROUGH FAITH.Faith is something that God gives us the power to do, but we must exercise toward Him. ** **But What Kind of Faith – you keep ignoring plain scripture!****Sorry guys I know this has been said to death in this thread- It is so plain I just can’t see how he doesn’t get it.🤷

James 2:14-26

14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,

16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

19You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
**
22You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;**

23and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also** faith without works is dead**.

The issue here is settled in plain Scripture- Plus there isa ton more support throughout scripturer–that is in perfect agreement in this. All Christ’s parables concerning salvation never talk about faith alone but require action. How can you take those few scriptures and just plain ignore ALL the rest.
 
maurin said:
James does tell us, “Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?”

What do YOU get from this verse above, frodobaggins? Doesn’t this mean that you must do His will also–yes Faith is as important–as Jesus teaches in Mt 25?

Where does Baptism fit in? “Truly truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” Cf Jn 3:4-5, 22.

St. Peter is maybe even more explicit: 1Pet:3:21: Whereunto baptism, being of the like form [Cf verse 20], now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection Jesus Christ.
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What you need to understand is that James is tackling a differnt angle than Paul is…He is speaking of the nature of the faith that is saving faith. In James 2 - he is showing what dead, useless, demonic faith is - and how well does the scripture say…

Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can **that faith **save him?

So - you have dead faith…

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

Demonic faith…

James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

Useless…

James 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

What are we speaking of - dead faith. What kind of justification are we speaking of?? The proof of one’s faith - the evidence. This is a different justification than in Romans which is the declaration of one to be righteous at the time of the new birth. That is in event that begins the Christian life. James is speaking of the evidencing of that faith in the life of the Christian. How is this communicated in the passage???

Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
James 2:18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; **show me **your faith without the works, and I will **show you **my faith by my works.”

Faith that is by itself is not faith at all - being by itself…

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

We are saved by faith that works - not faith and works. And prior to baptism, we must have faith unto justification…it is a matter of the heart first. Babies cannot do that. My previous postings cover that quite well.
 
Linkowski said:
What you need to understand is that James is tackling a differnt angle than Paul is…He is speaking of the nature of the faith that is saving faith. In James 2 - he is showing what dead, useless, demonic faith is - and how well does the scripture say…

Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can **that faith **save him?

So - you have dead faith…

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

Demonic faith…

James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

Useless…

James 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

What are we speaking of - dead faith. What kind of justification are we speaking of?? The proof of one’s faith - the evidence. This is a different justification than in Romans which is the declaration of one to be righteous at the time of the new birth. That is in event that begins the Christian life. James is speaking of the evidencing of that faith in the life of the Christian. How is this communicated in the passage???

Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
James 2:18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; **show me **your faith without the works, and I will **show you **my faith by my works.”

Faith that is by itself is not faith at all - being by itself…

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

We are saved by faith that works - not faith and works. And prior to baptism, we must have faith unto justification…it is a matter of the heart first. Babies cannot do that. My previous postings cover that quite well.
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So James and Paul are talking about different kinds of faith? What Scripture verse tells us this?
 
Pixie_Dust said:
So James and Paul are talking about different kinds of faith? What Scripture verse tells us this?
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Please do not misunderstand - Paul is speaking about justification as a declaration of one to be righteous before God - a pardon so-to-speak. James is speaking about the evidence that ought to come from that faith. If that evidence is not there, then that faith is dead. They say they have faith…BUT…

Mt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 "Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
 
Linkowski said:
What you need to understand is that James is tackling a differnt angle than Paul is…He is speaking of the nature of the faith that is saving faith. In James 2 - he is showing what dead, useless, demonic faith is - and how well does the scripture say…

Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can **that faith **save him?

So - you have dead faith…

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

Demonic faith…

James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

Useless…

James 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

What are we speaking of - dead faith. What kind of justification are we speaking of?? The proof of one’s faith - the evidence. This is a different justification than in Romans which is the declaration of one to be righteous at the time of the new birth. That is in event that begins the Christian life. James is speaking of the evidencing of that faith in the life of the Christian. How is this communicated in the passage???

Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
James 2:18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; **show me **your faith without the works, and I will **show you **my faith by my works.”

Faith that is by itself is not faith at all - being by itself…

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

We are saved by faith that works - not faith and works. And prior to baptism, we must have faith unto justification…it is a matter of the heart first. Babies cannot do that. My previous postings cover that quite well.
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The problem then as I see it, is that most professing Evengelical Fundamentalist OSAS Christian then have “demonic faith” (your definition) because they can’t back it up with deeds or works of righteousness. They just don’t recognize it as demonic faith they just believe it is true faith because they have been taught OSAS. You’ve Just backed yourself in a corner because the Bible teaches very clearly that you also have to test yourself to see if your in the faith. It really seems you have to do a lot of dancing to make all these plain scriptures fit your theology.

1 John 1:5-8

5This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

5This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
 
Linkowski said:
Please do not misunderstand - Paul is speaking about justification as a declaration of one to be righteous before God - a pardon so-to-speak. James is speaking about the evidence that ought to come from that faith. If that evidence is not there, then that faith is dead. They say they have faith…BUT…

Mt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 "Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
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So we do need to DO something other than just “have faith” in order to attain heaven? We’re not saved by faith alone, according to Matthew 7:21. Thank you for supporting your Catholic brothers and sisters here! 👍
 
deanarrca said:
The problem here then is that most professing Evengelical Fundamentalist OSAS Christian then have demonic faith and just don’t recognize as that. You’ve Just backed yourself in a corner because the Bible teaches very clearly that you also have to test yourself to see if your in the faith. Then that brings us back around to the whole argument agains OSAS. It really seems you have to do a lot of dancing to make all these plain scriptures fit your theology.
1 John 1:5-8

5This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8(Z)If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

5This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
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You do not understand the miracle of salvation and the fact that many will find out that the Lord never knew them. I have not backed myself in a corner at all. True salvation and saving faith bring about a change in life - the CC says that all babies are born of God at baptism - but, very clearly, many do not match the description of one born of God in 1 John.
 
Linkowski said:
Faith that is by itself is not faith at all - being by itself…
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Glad to see you reject Sola Fida.
Linkowski said:
We are saved by faith that works - not faith and works.
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Do I need to learn how to do gymnastics to learn your theology?
Linkowski said:
And prior to baptism, we must have faith unto justification…it is a matter of the heart first. Babies cannot do that. My previous postings cover that quite well.
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And thats why the faith of the parents is so important because they have authority over their children.

Baptism is the work of Christ and one doesn’t need to understand it to receive it, like a baby, a mentally retarded person, and I would add most Christians in general.

I understand because I believe. I don’t believe because I understand
 
Pixie_Dust said:
So we do need to DO something other than just “have faith” in order to attain heaven? We’re not saved by faith alone, according to Matthew 7:21. Thank you for supporting your Catholic brothers and sisters here! 👍
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:banghead:
 
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Thanks to all who participated in it.
 
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