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justasking4
Guest
Has anyone looked at the poll results? Its absolutely shocking.
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Gamera
Guest
Yeah, but that’s what happens when the correct answer isn’t among the choices.
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justasking4
Guest
What do you think the correct answer is?
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jmcrae
Guest
The correct answer is, “by the grace of Jesus Christ, in His Church and in His Sacraments.”
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Gamera
Guest
“Die in a state of grace.”
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xfrodobagginsx
Guest
Like I said Catholics can’t even agree on how to get to heaven, because many of them don’t follow the word of God (the bible).
The correct answer is the first option. “By trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation”
The correct answer is the first option. “By trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation”
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Church_Militant
Guest
Again, verses pulled out of context in an attempt to make them support something that they do not.
Of course Catholics believe that God shares His glory with us as He sees fit, and you cannot produce an authoritative Catholic document that says different.
You’re kinda talkin’ out your hat there xfrodobaggionsx. There are many ways that God is glorified, but the primary one, here on Earth, (according to the New Testament) is in His church.
I agree with Gamera. The worst problem with that poll is that all those options are valid to some degree or other according to the Word of God, and that makes it confusing, which in turn provides the messed up results that you see so far.
The correct answer?
Repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38 & 22:16) and then following Christ, (John 14:15, Matthew 10:38, 16:24, & 25:31-46, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23) which is a lifelong journey and not the oversimplified “plan of salvation” as presented by so many of the modern post reformation step-children.
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Church_Militant
Guest
The correct answer…according to you.
I have already shown you several different ways in which the gospel that you are preaching is actually contrary to the Word of God.
Your allegation that Catholics “don’t follow the word of God (the bible).” is nothing more than rhetorical anti-Catholic propaganda and I am living proof. Moreover, I have shown you many times that you are not preaching the New Testament Gospel but the teachings of men less than 500 years old.
I suggest that you re-examine what you have been taught that the New Testament says, reading it completely through to ascertain if what I have shared with you is actually the context of the New Testament’s teachings on salvation, as well as the other things that we have touched upon.
As one of my favorite ministries says:
[SIGN]***Get the facts. Decide for yourself. ***[/SIGN]
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Zooey
Guest
How to get to Heaven??
[SIGN]
GRACE!!
(an option strangely absent from the poll)
[/SIGN]
[SIGN]
GRACE!!
(an option strangely absent from the poll)
[/SIGN]
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HailMary
Guest
So God the Father and the God the Holy Spirit have nothing to do with it?
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Milliardo
Guest
I don’t see the difference with what Gamera said; basically, you’re both saying exactly the same thing.
His point is simple: God is glorified through us as well, as His creation.
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Church_Militant
Guest
I don’t see the difference with what Gamera said; basically, you’re both saying exactly the same thing.
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Gamera
Guest
No. Catholics agree on how to get to heaven. Catholics just disagree on which of your spoon-fed answers was “less wrong.”
You would have received unanimous Catholic assent had you given this poll instead:
How do you get to heaven?
A) By the grace of Jesus Christ.
B) By reading the Bible
C) By making one honest, sincere commitment to accept Jesus as your Savior, then turning around and commiting sin.
D) By believing in Jesus – just like Satan does
E) By saying to Jesus, “Lord, Lord,” then not doing the will of the Father (Matt 7:21).
F) By seeing your brother hungry, cold, naked, and in prison, and refusing to care for him.
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Gamera
Guest
Catholics all agree on how to get to heaven. Catholics just disagree on which of your spoon-fed answers was “less wrong.”
You’d get unanimous Catholic assent if you worded your poll like this:
How do you get to heaven when you die?
A. By the grace of Jesus Christ.
B. By believing in Jesus just like the demons do (James 2:19).
C. By calling Jesus ‘Lord, Lord,’ then not doing the will of the Father (Matt 7:21)
D. By “trusting Jesus as your savior,” then seeing your neighbor hungry, naked, sick and in prison and refusing to care for him (Matt 25:31-46).
Your selection of poll answers rests on several false assumptions. First, and worst, it rests on the false man-made doctrine of “once saved, always saved.” Second, it ignores the fact that millions of people are incapable of faith – babies, toddlers, the mentally challenged. God didn’t forget about them when He sent His Son. Third, and what’s dominated this thread, you assume that the Bible supports your view but, respectfully, the only Bible you’re talking about is the one that’s in your head. The actual Bible, the actual printed word that I read every night, tells me in numerous verses that it DOES matter what we do. Jesus bled and died a hideous death on the cross to redeem us. We cannot expect to be saved if we return His act of love by disobeying His commands. That’s like someone handing you a gift and you spitting in their face. Big surprise: now you’re not getting the gift.
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
And that’s the answer I gave…waaaay back on page 1 I believe. The Bible says we are “saved by grace” more than once. The Bible never says we are “saved by trusting in Jesus and asking Him into our hearts.”
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xfrodobagginsx
Guest
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:And that’s the answer I gave…waaaay back on page 1 I believe. The Bible says we are “saved by grace” more than once. The Bible never says we are “saved by trusting in Jesus and asking Him into our hearts.”
It says we are saved by grace through FAITH. Grace is what we cannot do for ourselves. Faith is something that God gives us the power to do, but we must exercise toward Him. The gift of God is salvation. We cannot work for it BTW baptism, good deeds and church membership are not meantioned here.
Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Let’s break this down…
“confess with thy mouth” =confess Him as Lord and Savior
“believe in thine heart”= It must be genuinely from the heart
Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Doesn’t this mean asking Him to save you? What do you get from this verse above?
BTW where is baptism meantioned here? Yet it says you WILL be saved.
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mercygate
Guest
Fragmenting the scriptures, as you do here, results in a fragmented and incomplete theology. I heard an evangelist the other day break down the word “diabolical” – its literal meaning in Greek means “tearing apart.” To achieve this view of salvation you must “tear” all thle parts of Scripture that refer to Faith, Grace, Baptism, Works of Charity as a single unit. “Diabolical!”
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
So you wish to toss out the rest of Scripture and keep only Ephesians and Romans?
I read the WHOLE of Scripture, not just isolated verses. Yes, we are to call upon the Lord, yes we are to believe in our hearts that God has raised Him from the dead, yes we are to be baptized for the forgiveness of our sins, yes we are to feed the hungry, care for the sick, clothe the naked, and everything else Christ commanded us to do!What the Bible does* not* say is “Just ask Jesus into your heart and He’ll save you no matter what else you do or don’t do with Him for the rest of your life.” THAT, my brother, is another Gospel.
PS Your presence is requested in another thread. Lots of people are waiting for you to give some examples there so that we can give you an answer to them.
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misslollipops
Guest
Frodo. I read your posts with much interest.
It seems you read your bible and have some understanding.
I especially like when you quote scripture and verse to support your position.
After reading much of this thread, I am wondering about all those who voted in the poll and chose “other” when refering to salvation.
I would love to know what they mean by “other”.
It seems you read your bible and have some understanding.
I especially like when you quote scripture and verse to support your position.
After reading much of this thread, I am wondering about all those who voted in the poll and chose “other” when refering to salvation.
I would love to know what they mean by “other”.
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HailMary
Guest
Where is the word “alone” mentioned here?
Son, with your logic, I can create a new heresy based upon a specific verse:
our salvation is founded upon the hope of something says St. Paul.
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees?
Romans 8:24
Now that we have established that we are saved by hope, which is not faith clearly, if he meant faith he would have said faith] does that mean you even need faith? Just in case you
don’t see what I’m trying to do I’m actually trying to be protestant], I’m trying to make the case, based upon St. Pauls testimony, from that particular passage, in that particular book, all we need is HOPE ALONE.
If you don’t know how to respond to this [perhaps because all this time you got it wrong, you thought it was FAITH ALONE!!], I suggest talking to a Catholic priest that is faithful to Church teaching or seeking counsel (try this). I am, of course, being facetious here just to get a point across: it is not just faith ALONE or just hope ALONE that saves us, even thou [pointing at the bible] “it says it here”. At any rate, this verse is crystal clear: if you SEE heaven [ie: if you have an absolute assurance of salvation because you are “saved”] your hope is seen and therefore according to St. Paul, is not hope at all and cannot bring about salvation
Not only is salvation 3-dimensional (past,present,future components) it is also not as simple as protestant preachers make it to be.
Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!
Matthew 7:13-14
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