How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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This verse doesn’t say that baptism saves… Where is baptism mentioned here for Salvation?..If baptism were necessary for salvation surely it would have been mentioned in these important passages.
Apply your logic here.

“And as he was setting out on his journey, a rich man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, ‘Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?’ And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.’’ And he said to him, ‘Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth.’ And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said to him, ‘You lack one thing; go sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come follow me.’ At that saying his countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful for he had great possessions.’” Mark 10:17-22.

Where does this verse say ‘Accept Jesus as your Savior?’ By your logic, the omission of such a phrase from this important exchange surely shows that one doesn’t need to accept Jesus as Savior in order to inherit eternal life. After all, wouldn’t Jesus have mentioned it here when asked point blank how to get to heaven?

This logical fallacy is inevitable when you expect the whole Gospel to be squeezed into every verse. If everything we needed for salvation were summarized in “Accept Jesus as Savior,” then the Bible would be four words long. But we don’t expect the whole Gospel to be expressed in sound bytes. The significance of one verse isn’t lessened just because it isn’t repeated within other verses. The fact that baptism isn’t mentioned in this or that verse doesn’t lessen the significance of the verses which do require baptism. We must accept the whole Gospel, not just random excerpts.
 
There are alot of things about baptism that you have been Mis-taught. 99% of the salvation verses don’t even meantion baptism because it is not part of salvation. It is a public profession of faith. You can’t say because baptism is already expected after salvation because then why meantion half of the salvation plan without the other half? It makes no sense. Because salvation is NOT of works. Baptism is a work. It is an act of obedience and you don’t get saved by works of righteousness.👍
As I’ve said before. Baptism saves because it is a work, its God’s work. We act in obedience and God saves us because of it.
 
Baptism does NOT save.
That’s not what Peter says. Right off the bat you’re in direct contradiction to Scripture. :tsktsk:
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
This verse doesn’t say that baptism saves. Look at the explanation of the verse. That which is born of flesh is flesh (water represents fleshly birth, the mother’s womb contains water), that which is born of Spirit is spirit (Spiritual birth)
Will you cite another passage in Scripture (just one will do) that uses “water” to mean “amniotic fluid” or “natural birth” please.
Mr 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. {for: or, unto}
Lu 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
As far as baptism saving you, it is the baptism of repentence that saves, not water baptism. The baptism is an outward showing of what happens when you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. It is NOT salvation, nor is it part of it. It is a believer’s act of obedience.
Earlier I asked, and I’m still waiting for the Scripture verse that says “Baptism is an outward showing of what happens when you accept Jesus as your Savior” because I can’t seem to find it. 🤷
Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(KJV)
Look at this verse. At first glance it appears as though baptism saves. But it says “He that believeth not shall be damned.” He is not damned for not being baptized.
If I tell my children, “He who picks up his toys and washes his hands will get some chocolate chip cookies.” If the room is clean but the hands aren’t, no cookies. If the hands are beautifully washed but the toys are still on the floor, no cookies. They’ve deliberately ignored part of my commands and will not. get. cookies.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
(KJV)
The baptism being talked about is a good concience toward God not water baptism. It says “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh” but what? “a good conscience toward God”
No that’s not what the verse is saying at all, you are deliberately twisting it so that you don’t have to admit baptism saves. Not because of the dirt on our skin that gets washed away, but the Holy Spirit washes sins from our souls. It is a work that God does for us.
Ac 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Where is baptism mentioned here for Salvation?
In verse 33 which you did not include for some reason. 😃 The jailer and ALL HIS HOUSEHOLD were baptized. Even the baby. 😉
Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Where is baptism mentioned here?
Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Where is baptism mentioned here?
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
It says it is by grace through faith, not baptism.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(KJV)
It says whosoever believeth in Him. Where is baptism meantioned here?
If baptism were necessary for salvation surely it would have been mentioned in these important passages.
You cannot possess the Holy Ghost unless you are saved right?
Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
They were already saved and possessed the Holy Ghost and they had not been baptized yet.
Ga 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Where is baptism mentioned here?
Mr 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
I believe that some of those verses that you believe are talking about water baptism are actually talking about being baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Baptism is not mentioned here.
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
The Door is Jesus Christ. We enter in by accepting Him.
Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
We open the door by receiving Him, what He did on the cross for us to pay for our sins. Baptism is an act of obedience. It is a public profession of faith.
Where does the Bible say “Baptism is a public profession of faith”??? Or that we need to “Accept Jesus as our personal Saviour”???
Lu 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
This theif couldn’t be baptized and Jesus Christ told him what? Today thou shalt be with me in paradise. Because He asked Jesus to save him. He received what Jesus did for Him.
God can save whomever He wants to, however He wants to. Even if they never pray for Jesus to come into their heart and be their personal Saviour. The thief on the cross is a poor defense for ignoring the command of Christ - made after His crucifixion and before His ascension - to “go … and make disciples, baptizing them.” You are not being crucified, Mr Baggins. The ordinary means for your salvation is to obey what Jesus commanded, including baptism.
Ac 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
What was the requirement for Him to be baptized? He has to believe. Baptism is for believer’s only. Believer’s are already Saved.
Verse 37 is a later addition and not found in the earliest manuscripts. Just thought you’d like to know that. 😉
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
If believing means that you know that you have eternal life, where is baptism mentioned here?
It is very clear that baptism is NOT for salvation but an act of obedience.
Exactly - an act of obedience! If you fail to be baptized you are disobeying Christ’s commandment! Matt 7:24 - “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.” If you hear the words of Christ and do not do them, is your house on the rock or on shifting sand?
It is an ordinaince just as communion is
Chapter and verse please. You make declarations like this and expect us to buy it without a Bible reference? :confused:
 
This verse doesn’t say that baptism saves. Look at the explanation of the verse. That which is born of flesh is flesh (water represents fleshly birth, the mother’s womb contains water), that which is born of Spirit is spirit (Spiritual birth)
I just need to mention a simple point on this.

The idea of amniotic fluid being the ‘water’ birth is ludicrous for no other reason than it was never taught anywhere in any capacity until, well, this century.

People have a short memory of history. If it didn’t happen within your time line, it always was…

This is just like the pretrib rapture debacle. Because the flawed theory developed prior to anyone alive, people fail to realize that it was never taught prior to John Darby and his cohorts.

the closest you get is pseudo-ephrium (sp) and even that quote is questionable at best.

By the way, have you ever heard some one say “In order to do ‘x’ you must first be born?”

Nope?

Then why do you think that is what you hear here

In Christ
 
On the issue—My 2 cents
Does Baptism Save?
Ok again this business at what point does salvation occur is a simple misunderstanding of viewpoint. To Frodo the point of salvation is a done deal once you believe and make Jesus christ your Lord and Savior, in his mind you are already saved prior to baptism, so therefore baptism doesn’t save. Catholics believe salvation is an ongoing and continuing process. (Which I whole heartedly believe and which the Bible supports). Therefore baptism is as necessary to salvation as believing and continuing to obey the commands of Christ.
Catholics, I believe, say God can surely save someone before baptism. For instance someone who believes with all his heart in Christ, and makes Christ Lord and Savior, and has asked God to forgive his sins with a contrite heart, but lets say dies and hasn’t had the chance to be baptised yet can still be saved. It is called I believe the “baptism of desire.” God knows the heart and knows that that person would have desired baptism had he known about it or if he did know but just hadn’t been able to yet. However that is an extrordinary circumstance and not the usual way. Catholics don’t box God in and say because that person isn’t baptised he is or is not saved. They don’t presume to know the mind of God and they recognize God is sovreign and can do what he wants. God is the only one who knows the true condition of the heart of an individual.
Code:
But again the difference is Catholics believe salvation is a process not a one time event then your stuck OSAS. We are saved, being saved and will be saved.:
“As the Bible says, I am already saved in the since that Christ has provided a way for slavation. (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”
 
Uhhhhhh…Frodo, you do realize that “a public profession of faith” is a work, don’t you? 'Cause it is, you see.
Now, a little baby, being baptized…Show me a little baby who arranged his own baptism as a work, and I’ll 😛 sign over the family farm.
Yes, it is a work and it’s NOT required for salvation. It is BECAUSE of salvation not FOR salvation. Babies shouldn’t get baptized that’s unscriptural and originates from human logic.
 
I just need to mention a simple point on this.

The idea of amniotic fluid being the ‘water’ birth is ludicrous for no other reason than it was never taught anywhere in any capacity until, well, this century.

People have a short memory of history. If it didn’t happen within your time line, it always was…

This is just like the pretrib rapture debacle. Because the flawed theory developed prior to anyone alive, people fail to realize that it was never taught prior to John Darby and his cohorts.

the closest you get is pseudo-ephrium (sp) and even that quote is questionable at best.

By the way, have you ever heard some one say “In order to do ‘x’ you must first be born?”

Nope?

Then why do you think that is what you hear here

In Christ
If you look in the rest of that chapter Jesus states over and over again what you must do to be saved and never meantions baptism.
 
If you look in the rest of that chapter Jesus states over and over again what you must do to be saved and never meantions baptism.
Jesus says, “Obey my commandments.” then Jesus says, “Go therefore and baptize.” :hmmm:
 
Apparently if you “trust Jesus as your personal savior” (a phrase which does NOT appear in the Bible) then you don’t need to obey what actually IS in the Bible.
Thanks for clearing that up 👍
 
There are alot of things about baptism that you have been Mis-taught. 99% of the salvation verses don’t even meantion baptism because it is not part of salvation. It is a public profession of faith. You can’t say because baptism is already expected after salvation because then why meantion half of the salvation plan without the other half? It makes no sense. Because salvation is NOT of works. Baptism is a work. It is an act of obedience and you don’t get saved by works of righteousness.👍
Fodo, the Entire Bible is about Salvation - not just those few verses that happen to contain that word.

Everything in the Bible is Required for Salvation. Not just one or two things. They did not put anything into the Bible that was just extra, for the sake of beefing it up a bit or making it more interesting. Paper was much too expensive back then to add unnecessary extra stuff.
 
Yes, it is a work and it’s NOT required for salvation. It is BECAUSE of salvation not FOR salvation. Babies shouldn’t get baptized that’s unscriptural and originates from human logic.
The person being baptized does no work - he is receiving a gift of grace. The person doing the baptism is acting In Persona Christi - that is, it is Jesus Christ baptizing the person, through the agency of the person who is physically present there.
 
Jesus says, “Obey my commandments.” then Jesus says, “Go therefore and baptize.” :hmmm:
You missed it again. It’s as plain as the nose on your face. Over and over He says how to obtain eternal life in this VERY chapter and you keep missing it.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever **believeth in him **should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Believing in Jesus is more than just believing that He exists, it is putting your faith in Him as Lord and Savior. In this one chapter you focus on one verse that says water (which it doesn’t even say it’s baptism, you just assume it) and ignore the other ones. This the way the entire new testiment is. For every verse that even meantions baptism, it states that in order to be saved you must “believe on”, “believe in” Jesus Christ for salvation. That means to put your faith in Him.

It’s like this, Jesus Christ dying on the cross was the payment for our sins. Since HE paid it, all we need to do is accept what HE did for us to pay for it. He won’t force the payment on us. It’s that simple. Of course someone who accepts Jesus should want to obey Him and be baptized, but it’s NOT the baptism that saves. If you still doubt this read the verses again and tell me where baptism is meantioned in them. If baptism is important as you say, it certainly wouldn’t be left out so often.
 
Of course someone who accepts Jesus should want to obey Him and be baptized, but it’s NOT the baptism that saves.
You haven’t answered me yet. How much are we allowed to disobey Jesus and still be saved? Do I have to be baptized, or can I consider it optional?
 
Aren’t humans both body and soul? Therefore shouldn’t there be both Faith and Works? Since humans are naturally working everyday (brain. because the paralyze cannot move, but prayer is still a work)?

Also, isn’t the purpose of life to know, love, and serve God? Serving, from the heart, is a work, and so is love. When we work, others see God’s work in us. So we have to work to help people, may it be to help know God, or just to do better in life. And then there is faith, knowing. :extrahappy:

And about Baptism. Isn’t that necessary? Whether it be Baptism by Blood, Water, or Desire? We are all baptized one way or the other?

My 2 cents :). I didn’t feel like reading 50 something pages. 👍

I think I’m wrong 😊 :nope:
 
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