How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Church_Militant]

You missed it again. It’s as plain as the nose on your face. ** Over and over He says how to obtain eternal life in this VERY chapter and you keep missing it.**

Joh 3:15-18

Joh 3:36

Believing in Jesus is more than just believing that He exists, it is putting your faith in Him as Lord and Savior. In this one chapter you focus on one verse that says water (which it doesn’t even say it’s baptism, you just assume it) and ignore the other ones. This the way the entire new testiment is. For every verse that even meantions baptism, it states that in order to be saved you must “believe on”, “believe in” Jesus Christ for salvation. That means to put your faith in Him.

It’s like this, Jesus Christ dying on the cross was the payment for our sins. Since HE paid it, all we need to do is accept what HE did for us to pay for it. He won’t force the payment on us. It’s that simple. Of course someone who accepts Jesus should want to obey Him and be baptized, but it’s NOT the baptism that saves. If you still doubt this read the verses again and tell me where baptism is meantioned in them. If baptism is important as you say, it certainly wouldn’t be left out so often.Did you notice that xfrodobagginsx just glosses over all the rest of the Word of God that pertains to salvation. Sadly, he presents a denominational gospel…another gospel. Based upon the out of context presentation of passages interpreted to support something that the complete context of the New Testament does not teach.

Notice that at a glance (from ignorance) one might accept this new wave of doctrine as scriptural.

IMO that makes it all the more imperative that Catholics consecrate themselves to the task of spreading the fullness of the Gospel to all the world.

Remember Our Lord’s command in Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

 

[Linkowski]

Did you notice that xfrodobagginsx just glosses over all the rest of the Word of God that pertains to salvation. Sadly, he presents a denominational gospel…another gospel. Based upon the out of context presentation of passages interpreted to support something that the complete context of the New Testament does not teach.

Notice that at a glance (from ignorance) one might accept this new wave of doctrine as scriptural.

IMO that makes it all the more imperative that Catholics consecrate themselves to the task of spreading the fullness of the Gospel to all the world.

Remember Our Lord’s command in Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

I am not sure why you are going so far as to say that He is preaching another gospel. Baptism is something that follows the new birth of regeneration and repentant faith in Christ. Is someone says that they believe and then refuses to follow the simple command of baptism, they are not saved! Those that are led by the SPirit of God, they are the sons of God. But, to say that baptism saves is not proper.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

We are justified by faith - not by baptism.

 

[sodak]

I’m always amazed at the audacity of someone to tell the authors of a book (or books), that you don’t know what you wrote about, let me explain it to you. Unreal.

Frodo, I feel a little sad for you. It seems that you’ve gotten all pumped up from a home church or bible school, and can’t wait to show the Catholic heathens the errors of their ways. That might work for someone who didn’t pay attention in Sunday School, but there are a whole bunch of very bright people here that are trying their best to correct your mistakes. The folks here are well versed in Scripture (Catholics that know their Bible - amazing!), and you are avoiding all of their hard questions. You can’t pick and choose from the Bible. Either you accept the Word of God, or you don’t.

Why do you think that you know more about this than a Church with 2000 years of history and teaching? Maybe you should listen and learn.

 

[R2D2]

LOL. 2 + 2 = ?

sola scriptura = bible + personal opinion + denominational interpretation :banghead:

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

**There are alot of things about baptism that you have been Mis-taught. 99% of the salvation verses don’t even meantion baptism because it is not part of salvation. It is a public profession of faith. **

You can’t say because baptism is already expected after salvation because then why meantion half of the salvation plan without the other half? It makes no sense. Because salvation is NOT of works. Baptism is a work. It is an act of obedience and you don’t get saved by works of righteousness.

SO SAYETH Pope Frodo I (an infallible personal statement on interpreting Scripture if ever there was one!)

Robert

 

[jmcrae]

I am not sure why you are going so far as to say that He is preaching another gospel. Baptism is something that follows the new birth of regeneration and repentant faith in Christ. Is someone says that they believe and then refuses to follow the simple command of baptism, they are not saved!

So, to be saved, we must be baptized. Right?

Since not to be baptized is to never have been saved, in the first place. (Because to believe is to obey. They are not two separate things - the act of believing is the action of obedience. Believers are by definition obeyers.)

We are justified by faith - not by baptism.

And faith comes about through obedience. It does not exist separately from obedience.

 

[Milliardo]

You missed it again. It’s as plain as the nose on your face. Over and over He says how to obtain eternal life in this VERY chapter and you keep missing it.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever **believeth in him **should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

For Jesus, belief in Him does not merely mean accepting Him and knowing about Him, but obeying Him. Obedience has always been paramount for Jesus–again, remember when He said that not all who says, “Lord, Lord”, but those who obey His Father’s will shall enter the kingdom. If one knows Him, but does not obey, does one believe then?

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

For Jesus, belief in Him does not merely mean accepting Him and knowing about Him, but obeying Him. Obedience has always been paramount for Jesus–again, remember when He said that not all who says, “Lord, Lord”, but those who obey His Father’s will shall enter the kingdom. If one knows Him, but does not obey, does one believe then?

So you’re gonna say works even though the bible says otherwise? Come on read it for yourself and give it up!!!

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

So you’re gonna say works even though the bible says otherwise? Come on read it for yourself and give it up!!!

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

I’m always amazed at the audacity of someone to tell the authors of a book (or books), that you don’t know what you wrote about, let me explain it to you. Unreal.

Frodo, I feel a little sad for you. It seems that you’ve gotten all pumped up from a home church or bible school, and can’t wait to show the Catholic heathens the errors of their ways. That might work for someone who didn’t pay attention in Sunday School, but there are a whole bunch of very bright people here that are trying their best to correct your mistakes. The folks here are well versed in Scripture (Catholics that know their Bible - amazing!), and you are avoiding all of their hard questions. You can’t pick and choose from the Bible. Either you accept the Word of God, or you don’t.

Why do you think that you know more about this than a Church with 2000 years of history and teaching? Maybe you should listen and learn.

Ya…you really got me fooled. You are too smart to understand or believe God’s word. You’ve got that right. You think your church knows better than God…wow…ya you’re not messed up. FWI (the bible is God’s word) therefore, if the churches word contradicts the bible, the church is contradicting God’s word. There are plenty of areas that are off in the catholic church.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

So, to be saved, we must be baptized. Right?

Since not to be baptized is to never have been saved, in the first place. (Because to believe is to obey. They are not two separate things - the act of believing is the action of obedience. Believers are by definition obeyers.)

And faith comes about through obedience. It does not exist separately from obedience.

Heb 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Milliardo]

So you’re gonna say works even though the bible says otherwise? Come on read it for yourself and give it up!!!

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And yet Paul himself also wrote:

For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love (Galatians 5:6)

And in Romans, we find as well:

love is the fulfillment of the law (Romans 13:10).

Titus 3:5 shows us that God’s motivation for saving us has nothing to do with whatever we do; thus, then, using that verse actually goes against you since if you’re saying that we’re saved by our faith, then you would have to say that we are still saved by whatever we have, which is against the passage you stated. In short, that passage then only shows us that God’s motivation is His mercy and love, not by anything that we do. So neither faith nor our works are the things that caused God to save us, but rather His love for us.

That passage, then, does not show us the inner workings of salvation, but God’s motivation for it. So, no go on that frodo. As I keep saying, you’re simply rehashing the same old arguments you dished out a year ago, the same arguments that you were never able to defend satisfactorily.

 

[Gamera]

Frodobaggins, have you read the entire Bible?

 

[runandsew]

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever **believeth in him **should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: .

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: .

I have already posted this, but I will try again with what I see in the Gospel of John

These Jews in this first passage I am posting are doing more that just believing that Jesus exists, they are coming to belief because they have seen his signs, but let’s see where that gets them.

John 2:23-25
While he was in Jerusalem for the feast of Passover, many began to believe in his name when they saw the signs he was doing. But Jesus would not trust himself to them because he knew them all, and did not need anyone to testify about human nature. He himself understood it well

This passage to me seems to be saying that the Jews began to believe in Jesus, but that wasn’t enough with out devine help.
This passage say’s that Jesus wouldn’t trust himself to them, because they were believing with only their human nature.

Frodo, you have just posted several passages saying that we must believe, I have posted one that says that belief was not enough for those Jews, and we will both agree that scripture doesn’t contradict itself.
Somehow we need God’s help in this belief, God will give us the ‘power’ we need to help our belief be acceptable to God.

John 1:11-13
He came to what was his own, but his own people did not accept him. But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, **who were born **not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man’s decision but of God.

We see here in this passage that those who did believe he gave the power to become children of God, and then it goes on to say that these people are the ones who were born of God.
That is talking about being born again, which Jesus will explain in the next passages.

John 3:1-5
Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicode’mus, a ruler of the Jews.This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do, unless God is with him.”
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicode’mus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

In this last passage we see Nicodemus saying that they have come to believe from seeing the signs, just like the first passage where Jesus would not entrust himself to them.
Jesus will tell Nicodemus how to recieve the Power to become children of God.
You must be born again.
Being born again is not just believing, because the other passages have said that is not enough, we need devine assistance. Jesus goes on to tell us that we must be born again of water and spirit, Jesus is talking about baptism here.
Jesus is saying that we must be reborn of water and spirit, we must recieve the Holy Spirit in baptism, for Jesus to entrust himself to us.

I feel that this interpretation fits right in with the old testament foreshadowing of baptism in Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 36:25-27
I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances

We see in Ezekiel that we are forgiven of our sins, we are given a new heart and a new spirit, we are born again, and this new power we have in us will give us the devine assistance we need to follow Chirst in a way that he will entrust himself to us.

A simple human belief is not enough.

Maybe I am taking this out of context, but it seems very clear to me that Baptism is necessary for our salvation, because without it, we are trying to do this all on our own power, with our human nature.

Frodo, what does that first passage (John 2:23-25) mean to you?

 

[Church_Militant]

For Jesus, belief in Him does not merely mean accepting Him and knowing about Him, but obeying Him. Obedience has always been paramount for Jesus–again, remember when He said that not all who says, “Lord, Lord”, but those who obey His Father’s will shall enter the kingdom. If one knows Him, but does not obey, does one believe then?

So you’re gonna say works even though the bible says otherwise? Come on read it for yourself and give it up!!!

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done

, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;Really? But what does the Word of God say?

Matthew 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

John 15:14 You are my friends, if you do the things that I command you.

John 15:17 These things I command you, that you love one another.

John 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.

Ya…you really got me fooled. You are too smart to understand or believe God’s word. You’ve got that right. You think your church knows better than God…wow…ya you’re not messed up. FWI (the bible is God’s word) therefore, if the churches word contradicts the bible, the church is contradicting God’s word.

There are plenty of areas that are off in the catholic church.You have yet to prove that Catholic teaching in any way contradicts the Word of God.

In fact, I have already showed you several instances where the very message that you are teaching here is in direct conflict with the Word of God. How do you justify that? You make such a big deal of saying that Bible is the Word of God, (to which I say AMEN!), but then you turn right around and teach something concerning salvation that is unscriptural and then try to tell me and my Catholic brothers and sisters here that our faith is unbiblical. That’s pretty weird to say the very least, but I have to agree with the New Testament when it says, “6 I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel. 7 Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.” (Galatians 1)

You tell us that you know the Bible. How then can you justify teaching things that are not what the New Testament teaches?

Why is your gospel different from the one in the New Testament? And not only that, but also different from the one we find in all the earliest writings of the Church. It doesn’t appear to me that we Catholics are in error, but that you and the rest of the folks who have bought into the teachings that have come down from men some 500 years ago, and even less in the case of the Baptist sect.

The First Known Baptist Congregations

(?)
The first known Baptist Congregation was formed by a number of these fleeing separatists in Amsterdam, Holland in 1608. It was largely made up of British persons led by John Smyth who along with Thomas Helwys, sought to set up the group according to New Testament patterns. As they saw it, it was important to 'reconstitute' and not just 'reform' the Church.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

You missed it again. It’s as plain as the nose on your face. Over and over He says how to obtain eternal life in this VERY chapter and you keep missing it.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever **believeth in him **should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Believing in Jesus is more than just believing that He exists, it is putting your faith in Him as Lord and Savior. In this one chapter you focus on one verse that says water (which it doesn’t even say it’s baptism, you just assume it) and ignore the other ones. This the way the entire new testiment is. For every verse that even meantions baptism, it states that in order to be saved you must “believe on”, “believe in” Jesus Christ for salvation. That means to put your faith in Him.

It’s like this, Jesus Christ dying on the cross was the payment for our sins. Since HE paid it, all we need to do is accept what HE did for us to pay for it. He won’t force the payment on us. It’s that simple. Of course someone who accepts Jesus should want to obey Him and be baptized, but it’s NOT the baptism that saves. If you still doubt this read the verses again and tell me where baptism is meantioned in them. If baptism is important as you say, it certainly wouldn’t be left out so often.

Baptism is only “left out” when you ignore other passages in the Bible, even ones that appear in the very chapter you’re using here.

22After these things Jesus and his disciples came into the land of Judea: and there he abode with them, and baptized.

23And John also was baptizing in Ennon near Salim; because there was much water there; and **they came and were baptized**.

24For John was not yet cast into prison.

25And there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews concerning purification:

26And they came to John, and said to him: Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond the Jordan, to whom thou gavest testimony, behold** he baptizeth, and all men come to him.**

Anyone can form a doctrine that’s contrary to the WHOLE Word of God (written and unwritten) using this verse or that verse. All you need is two verses yanked out of context and you can have your own little denomination. If everything I need to know about being saved is found in John Ch 3 before verse 23, why do we have the rest of that chapter, the rest of that Gospel, three other Gospels AND all of those epistles? There’s more to salvation than just a one time “sinner’s prayer.” You keep insisting that baptism doesn’t save, which directly contradicts Scripture.

Jesus said in Matthew 4:4, quoting Deuteronomy 8:3 - Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.

Jesus did NOT say, “Go and write the Scriptures and let everyone read them and decide for themselves what is true.” He said “Go and teach all that I have commanded you, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” Why do you insist on dismissing the very last commandment of Christ before he left this earth as unimportant to salvation? It doesn’t make any sense.

 

[japhy]

So you’re gonna say works even though the bible says otherwise? Come on read it for yourself and give it up!!!

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Frodo, please listen. We are quoting from the Bible. We’re not disagreeing with the passages you show, but we’re showing you that they’re incomplete without the rest of the verses of the Bible. That’s why we have the whole Bible, because it is still important for us to know the Old Testament for the New Testament to make any sense. And the New Testament isn’t contained in a single book, a single chapter, or a single verse. It’s in 27 books. One book doesn’t have all there is to the ONE Gospel message.

We know that God will judge us according to our works, because Scripture says so! Paul says it (Romans 2:6-8), Peter says it (1 Peter 1:17), and John records it (Rev 20:12). This does not mean that faith is not important (just because those verses don’t mention it explicitly), just like the verses you quote don’t mean the conduct of our lives (good works in the Spirit) is not important.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Of course we are to be baptized, go to church, do good deeds, take communion, but they are NOT part of your salvation.

1. The verses that you list don’t say that WATER baptism saves.
2. The verses I list say that by faith in Christ Jesus alone we are saved.
3. Just because someone gets baptized after they accept Jesus into their hearts, does NOT mean that it was the baptism that saved them. Folks are listing verses that say that people were baptized after believing on Jesus Christ. Of course they were.

You are assuming that it’s part of their salvation. I am saying that it’s BECAUSE OF their salvation.

My take is that according to catholics, they have to do communion, baptism, belong to the church, have faith in Jesus and be a good person to get to heaven. The problem is that they are adding to what salvation is. Even though we are told to do those other things, we are NEVER told that they save us. The only thing that we are told saves us is believing on Jesus Christ for salvation.

Believing on Jesus Christ means to place your faith and trust in what He did on the cross alone to save you. Then, AFTER you are saved, you get baptized because you are already saved and sealed by the Holy Ghost, you take communion because you are already saved and sealed by the Holy Ghost, you go to chuch to learn about God because you are sealed by the Holy Ghost.

We are saved UNTO good works, not BECAUSE OF good works

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You can’t have the Holy Ghost without being saved and these folks already had it. They were baptized AFTER they had been sealed by the Holy Ghost.

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Of course we are to be baptized, go to church, do good deeds, take communion, but they are NOT part of your salvation.

 

[heisenburg]

what happens if I am disobedient, but have faith?

In Christ

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Frodo, please listen. We are quoting from the Bible. We’re not disagreeing with the passages you show, but we’re showing you that they’re incomplete without the rest of the verses of the Bible. That’s why we have the whole Bible, because it is still important for us to know the Old Testament for the New Testament to make any sense. And the New Testament isn’t contained in a single book, a single chapter, or a single verse. It’s in 27 books. One book doesn’t have all there is to the ONE Gospel message.

**That’s hillarious!!! If I quote 5 verses from a chapter telling you that faith alone saves then you say that we have to look at the rest of the bible. If I take verses from the entire new testiment and show you that faith alone saves then I am accused of “cherry picking” verses out of the bible. **

We know that God will judge us according to our works, because Scripture says so! Paul says it (Romans 2:6-8), Peter says it (1 Peter 1:17), and John records it (Rev 20:12). This does not mean that faith is not important (just because those verses don’t mention it explicitly), just like the verses you quote don’t mean the conduct of our lives (good works in the Spirit) is not important.

Christians are judged by their works for God, not their bad deeds. Non-christians are judged by their bad deeds to determine which manner of judgement they will receive.