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Ken
Guest
How do you recognize the gays who are not in your face? Without that ability, one cannot make a valid statement about homosexuality.
- Status
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Mijoy2
Guest
What happened to love the sinner and hate the sin?
At risk of being flammed I’m compelled to say this:
I feel that often, in these posts, over jealousness, self-righteousness, and frankly judgemental attitudes seem to shine through. We are called to love one another. Homosexuals are no less worthy of Gods love then heterosexuals. LOVE THEM!!! Let Him judge, not us.
Oh how it discourages me to witness this attitude.
At risk of being flammed I’m compelled to say this:
I feel that often, in these posts, over jealousness, self-righteousness, and frankly judgemental attitudes seem to shine through. We are called to love one another. Homosexuals are no less worthy of Gods love then heterosexuals. LOVE THEM!!! Let Him judge, not us.
Oh how it discourages me to witness this attitude.
R
renee1258
Guest
I wish someone had an answer here. I would like to here it. I wish there was a tactful way, of going and showing your teens how to hold your ground instead of having to keep your lips shut for the sake of the family.
In these types of situations I feel so co-dependant. You can love someone, without having always accept their behavior. But it seems socially one can not do that without being brushed with a paint brush that you are hateful.
Did Jesus ever keep his mouth shut for sake of keeping the peace? I don’t think so, or else he wouldn’t of ended up on the cross.
In these types of situations I feel so co-dependant. You can love someone, without having always accept their behavior. But it seems socially one can not do that without being brushed with a paint brush that you are hateful.
Did Jesus ever keep his mouth shut for sake of keeping the peace? I don’t think so, or else he wouldn’t of ended up on the cross.
L
LauraL
Guest
Just what do you mean by LOVE?
Look, I’m not sending these guys to hell, do not pass GO, do not collect $200. I’m saying that the lifestyle they have chosen is pure and simple evil. That’s discernment, not judgment. Love is not some sentimental brain vacation that tries to get along with everybody and abandon all standards so everybody can be happy. That’s not love – that’s sentimentality, and friend, I’m telling you, it’s straight out of the pit of Hell.
If I’m fixing supper and I go into my cupboard and pull out my bag of potatoes and they’re mushy and stink to high heaven and are covered in flies, am I going to rinse 'em off and use 'em for supper? I don’t think so! I recognize what I see as something out of order, dangerous, and I act accordingly.
Ditto – two men living together as if they were married, with a baby to raise, pretending to be a family… that’s one ugly, ugly mess. Makes my spoiled potatoes seem kind of like a pleasant summer interlude, know what I mean?
Let me tell you something. Someone mentioned adultery and fornication. Well, I have never seen ANYTHING like homosexuality for opening a can of personality-transforming worms like homosexuality. My first husband is now Out, and up until the time he decided to go with being gay, he was one of the frankest, most generous, kind-hearted and beautiful boys (we’d been through high school together) I ever have known. But when he gave in to this temptation, his whole character changed. He has become snide, sarcastic, contemptuous of other people (especially of women), deceitful, manipulative… It’s a total character transformation. I’ve known people who’ve engaged in other sins, but it seems the the very demons of hell are attached to this one.
It’s ripped our entire family apart, and I don’t just mean our being divorced. The damage he has done to our daughters is inestimable. And if you or anyone else thinks that being gay is just hunky-dory and that these two men with a baby aren’t really hurting one another, then I strongly urge you to get your cotton-pickin’ head out of the sand and take another, good hard look at everything going on here.
Maybe cousin John wouldn’t harm a fly (for the sake of the argument, okay?). Maybe the kids are safe with him (but of course, most kids who have been molested are the victim of a close family member of family friend). But what about his friends? Can you guarantee that each and every one of them is also morally responsible? Dollar to a donut each and every one of them has a history of having been molested – and I wouldn’t put my kids at risk to make them “feel good about themselves” or to placate well-intentioned but ignorant family members, not for a million bucks.
Too much is at stake here. And that doesn’t even BEGIN to address the issue of supporting the lie from hell that being gay is just another lifestyle choice that doesn’t jeopardize the immortal soul.
Gimme a flippin’ break!
E
Edwin1961
Guest
When I was in that lifestyle, I used to take my partner to family functions. Since most of my family were either not Christian or Catholic, they didn’t mind, but in the back of my mind I wondered whether I was being talked to behind my back.
WIth the love of God and my brother, and his prayers, I left that lifestyle and live a chaste life for atonement of my past sins.
This ‘couple’ needs to experience the love that Christ told us to give to everyone. ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ No one would want to be talked to behind their back and neither would this couple.
The suggestions mentioned eariler about blessing the baby with a prayer and offering to be Godparents would be the perfect seed to plant in this couple’s minds.
Maybe this would let them reflect on God. Or then again, they could be so deep in their lifestyle that their heart’s are not moved or softened to the love of God.
Simply love them as fellow human beings and pray for some movement in their heart of the Truth of Christ.
Go with God!
Edwin
WIth the love of God and my brother, and his prayers, I left that lifestyle and live a chaste life for atonement of my past sins.
This ‘couple’ needs to experience the love that Christ told us to give to everyone. ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ No one would want to be talked to behind their back and neither would this couple.
The suggestions mentioned eariler about blessing the baby with a prayer and offering to be Godparents would be the perfect seed to plant in this couple’s minds.
Maybe this would let them reflect on God. Or then again, they could be so deep in their lifestyle that their heart’s are not moved or softened to the love of God.
Simply love them as fellow human beings and pray for some movement in their heart of the Truth of Christ.
Go with God!
Edwin
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Mijoy2
Guest
Quite a testimony. God Bless you Edwin.
I know that homosexuality is sinful. I know this simply because I must hold fast and true to scripture or I have no faith. Therefore I humbly accept that homosexuality is sinful. However, I’d be less then truthful if I claimed I could intuitively understand it is sinful. I just don’t see and I ask for God’s guidence on this one. I work closely with many homosexuals (maybe it is disproportionate in my field) . I can say without exception that of the homosexuals I work with, they are, kind generous loving people. As hard as look I can’t see the horns.
L
Lilyofthevalley
Guest
I wish someone had an answer here. I would like to here it. I wish there was a tactful way, of going and showing your teens how to hold your ground instead of having to keep your lips shut for the sake of the family.
Discussing with your teens, beforehand, WHY homosexual sex is a sin and WHAT The Pope teaches is a way of holding your ground.
It’s showing them, even though you view cousin “Bob’s” lifestyle as a sin you can still be civil.
Did Jesus ever keep his mouth shut for sake of keeping the peace? I don’t think so, or else he wouldn’t of ended up on the cross.
There is a time AND a place for everything. At a family gathering it is not an appropriate time to discuss a sinful lifestyle OR confront someone.Discussing with your teens, beforehand, WHY homosexual sex is a sin and WHAT The Pope teaches is a way of holding your ground.
It’s showing them, even though you view cousin “Bob’s” lifestyle as a sin you can still be civil.
S
Salena
Guest
I’m truly sorry about what you have had to go through and I can understand where you are coming from, but all homosexuals are not like you just described your X. My sister is the opposite. Before she came out no one could get along with her. She even referred to herself as bfromh (b#@$% from hell) and most everyone else did too. She is now a different person. She’s a lot calmer and can get along with anyone. It’s taken some time, but we all love to see her walk through the door (we use to run and hide
. I also have had many friends who were homosexual and they were not like you described your X. They were intelligent, kind, loving people. I have a daughter who is 27 and a son who is 24 and they were not influenced or molested by any of them. They were in their teens when my sister came out and it did not make them turn gay themselves! That is a totally unjustified fear to think your kids can catch homosexuality!!!No, homosexuality should not be viewed as another “lifestyle choice”, but these people also should not be treated as rotten potatoes that are “covered in flies and stink to high heaven.”
Some have suggested that if we don’t shun homosexuals then we accept that lifestyle. Not true! I don’t agree and I do believe the teachings of the Church that it is a mortal sin, but I also believe we are not to judge others. Call it discernment, but your are still judging.
We don’t win souls by mistreating them. We win souls by our love and example.
F
Funky_Cedars
Guest
Findnmway:
…i don’t get the point, a gay man would not be interested in a girl, they’d be more likely to seek out a boy instead.
thanks for listening, love and peace, terry
…i don’t get the point, a gay man would not be interested in a girl, they’d be more likely to seek out a boy instead.thanks for listening, love and peace, terry
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sisterpatril
Guest
Well said LauraL, I’m with you.
I have a friend whose husband left her (after 21 years of what she thought was a happy marriage) and three kids to pursue a gay lifestyle (his CHOICE, by the way!). Four lives left in shambles…oh, but he’s happy and that’s all that matters because we need to be…let’s see what’s that favorite word everyone likes to use these days, oh yeah…tolerant…of him and not be…what’s that other word always being thrown around, oh yeah…judgmental!
And that’s exactly why we live in such a toilet bowl today!
I have a friend whose husband left her (after 21 years of what she thought was a happy marriage) and three kids to pursue a gay lifestyle (his CHOICE, by the way!). Four lives left in shambles…oh, but he’s happy and that’s all that matters because we need to be…let’s see what’s that favorite word everyone likes to use these days, oh yeah…tolerant…of him and not be…what’s that other word always being thrown around, oh yeah…judgmental!
And that’s exactly why we live in such a toilet bowl today!
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darcee
Guest
Laura, I understand your anger. But no one has suggest that the youths be sent alone on a camping trip with these men. Only that those invited to a party go and act in a civil and polite manner. That the damage of spending an afternoon with a cousin, his lover and the child they are raising is rather nominal for teenagers who can take this opportunity to delve more deeply into the Church’s teachings on sexual morality and compassion.
And it is that compassion that holds out hope for all sinners. That we do not cast away those in sin but we love them and pray for them and encourage them to be better. You can not do that when you refuse to break bread with them.
-D
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Ken
Guest
**Laurel wrote:
Maybe cousin John wouldn’t harm a fly (for the sake of the argument, okay?). Maybe the kids are safe with him (but of course, most kids who have been molested are the victim of a close family member of family friend). But what about his friends? Can you guarantee that each and every one of them is also morally responsible? Dollar to a donut each and every one of them has a history of having been molested – and I wouldn’t put my kids at risk to make them “feel good about themselves” or to placate well-intentioned but ignorant family members, not for a million bucks. **
I agree that a parent has to watch the adults who come into contact with their children. How do you guarantee that each and every Catholic priest they encounter is also morally responsible? Perhaps the same technique could be employed?
Maybe cousin John wouldn’t harm a fly (for the sake of the argument, okay?). Maybe the kids are safe with him (but of course, most kids who have been molested are the victim of a close family member of family friend). But what about his friends? Can you guarantee that each and every one of them is also morally responsible? Dollar to a donut each and every one of them has a history of having been molested – and I wouldn’t put my kids at risk to make them “feel good about themselves” or to placate well-intentioned but ignorant family members, not for a million bucks. **
I agree that a parent has to watch the adults who come into contact with their children. How do you guarantee that each and every Catholic priest they encounter is also morally responsible? Perhaps the same technique could be employed?
T
The_Rigbys
Guest
I agree…and that’s why, under the circumstances, I think you probably shouldn’t go. It’s well and good for others to say, “just show up, smile, and say hello, as a witness of Christian love,” but, in reality, if you’re that uncomfortable, these people will likely notice it, and take offense at your “rudeness and bigotry” (or, at best, take pity on your “small-mindedness”). On the other hand, if they don’t notice anything strange, then you’ll just be perceived as approving of the situation, like the other relatives who “look the other way” and are “afraid to speak up.” So, it’s kind of a no-win situation.
Of course, if you really want to take your family to the party, and are confident that you can use the opportunity to evangelize, then it might be beneficial to go. That doesn’t seem to be the case, though. I think you’d do the most good by staying away from this particular event, and offering up prayer and fasting for all the souls involved in this mess.
Yes, we all sin, and Jesus died for our sins. Does that mean that we’re never allowed to show our disapproval of anything? :nope: That’s not what our faith teaches. “Admonish the sinner” is one of the Spiritual Works of Mercy.
As Catholics, we accept God’s word that male homosexual acts are especially bad; they’re referred to as “sins that cry out to Heaven for vengeance.” These men, by expecting to be treated like any other family, are making a blatant, in-your-face declaration of pride in these acts. To approve of their situation, even tacitly, would not be a loving thing to do. Not for them, and not even, in the long run, for the child.
(BTW, to those who talked about not wanting to “make the child suffer”: I don’t think this young infant is going to notice who shows up at the party. So, in this instance, that consideration is pretty much irrelevant.)
Just my :twocents:
Mrs. R
D
Debbie
Guest
Although I can’t give exact percentages, the percentage of priests who have been accused of molestation/homosexual acts is much, much smaller than the percentage of homosexuals that have been molested.
You’re comparing bad apples to bad oranges.
Debbie
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Debbie
Guest
You can’t see the horns on many of the men and women addicted to internet pornography either (just as an example).
Just because someone is nice, doesn’t mean they’re not sinning. If someone doesn’t think something is a sin, there is no feeling of guilt. It’s very easy to be nice when nothing is weighing on your conscience. Even if the feeling of guilt is there, people are very adept at putting on “masks” of happiness for others.
Just popping in my :twocents:
Debbie
K
Ken
Guest
The US Catholic bishops commission February 2004 report says that 4% of the priests serving since 1950 have been accused of physical sexual abuse.
What is the percentage of homosexuals who have been abused? Where does that info come from?
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Edwin1961
Guest
One thing I have learned about life these past few years…Anyone who holds true to the values and traditons that one has grown up with, that are correct and pure, are now considered ‘closed minded’ or ‘hateful’.
Since I have HAD personal experience in this area, I used to scorned at and fought back with the same words we hear today.
When conversion takes place, you don’t ask why, you just give thanks and help others in the same situation.
I know this is kinda ‘off topic’ but I do NOT consider myself PC and will ‘accept those in the lifestyle’ as loving AND respecting them FIRST as humanbeings created by God. Hoping and praying that my example of leading a chaste lifestyle and bring others to Christ and His Church!
go with God!
Edwin
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Salena
Guest
You missed the point. Laura said: But when he gave in to this temptation, his whole character changed. He has become snide, sarcastic, contemptuous of other people (especially of women), deceitful, manipulative… It’s a total character transformation.
My point was that I don’t see that in the homosexuals I know. I never said her happiness was all that matter, just trying to show not all homosexuals react the same.
The problem here is that there seems to be a lot of people who pick and choose which sinners they will be “tolerant” of. Homosexuals probaby wouldn’t be so eager to “come out” if we didn’t live in a “toilet bowl”
D
Debbie
Guest
Dear Ken,
Rarely will I state something like that without having actual statistics to back up my statement. However, it was late and …
But, basically my thinking is this: Theoretically,
in a room of 100 priests, 4 will have molested molested young boys.
In a room of 100 male homosexuals, I would be willing to bet that there would be at least 25 that were molested as children.
I have no figures to back this up. I will, however, do some personal research to see what I can find to prove or disprove my theory.
I agree also that a parent has to watch the adults who come into contact with their children. But, why would you compare priests to homosexuals in questioning their moral responsibility?
Given the 4% statistic, 96 out of 100 priests are morally responsible in a sexual manner. How many homosexual men are morally responsible in a sexual manner? Heck, even if you were to bump the 4% up to 10% to include priests that break their vow of chastity with a woman, there would still, in my opinion, be no comparison.
So, although not from a fancy study, that’s where my info comes from. Thanks for helping me clarify my thoughts!
God bless,
Debbie
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AngieGeek
Guest
Hello all, this is findnmway’s “baby sister” and I thought you might be interested in the “rest of the story”.
findnmway:
Third, these are the same parents who wouldn’t allow my niece to bring her boyfriend to this same house because he was a different race than us.
Fourth, I haven’t caused the problem - her lifestyle has. And the fact that my parents allow her and her lover to stay the night in their house when they visit is a problem for everyone - including you. By no means am I the only who is disturbed and upset by what she is doing. I have always been outspoken and will continue to be. Unlike others who say one thing about her and act another way to her, I am relatively consistent.
findnmway:
She will come when my cousin and his live-in girlfriend are there (fornication). She comes when my uncle, with many girlfriends on the side, is present (adultry). She believes their (lesbian couple) relationship could influence her 10 year old daughter. Being in the same room with homosexuals won’t make you homosexual, but being in the room with fornicators who are “totally” accepted might send a message to her 10 year old that it’s okay to be a fornicator.
I wasn’t aware that we had a cousin who lives with his girlfriend. As for our uncle, the adultery was long ago as far as I know. Even so, I would NOT attend a gathering or be around him if he had his girlfriend with him. I do the same with our sister - I will not be around her and her “girlfriend”, but I do visit when it is just her and her son and am much more kind to her than she deserves (and this has nothing to do with her “lifestyle”). This is the same sister who elbowed me in the stomach when I was 8 months pregnant - and that was by no means an isolated incident.
You neglect to tell the rest of the story concerning my 10 year old. You remember - when our sister and her girlfriend declared that my daughter (who as 4 at the time) was a lesbian because she liked ‘Xena’. No surprise, though, as they had already proclaimed one of the woman’s preteen daughters as a lesbian, as well, because she had “the look”.
I noticed you also didn’t bother to mention that, when you go on vacation to Florida, you keep it secret so you don’t have to see her. And the reason for that is???
continued…
findnmway:
First of all, I attended the last family gathering we had - in June. Second, I won’t be attending any more gatherings where she has her girlfriend - especially not if it is such a small place as my parent’s house. If she comes alone, of course I will be there…
Third, these are the same parents who wouldn’t allow my niece to bring her boyfriend to this same house because he was a different race than us.
Fourth, I haven’t caused the problem - her lifestyle has. And the fact that my parents allow her and her lover to stay the night in their house when they visit is a problem for everyone - including you. By no means am I the only who is disturbed and upset by what she is doing. I have always been outspoken and will continue to be. Unlike others who say one thing about her and act another way to her, I am relatively consistent.
findnmway:
She will come when my cousin and his live-in girlfriend are there (fornication). She comes when my uncle, with many girlfriends on the side, is present (adultry). She believes their (lesbian couple) relationship could influence her 10 year old daughter. Being in the same room with homosexuals won’t make you homosexual, but being in the room with fornicators who are “totally” accepted might send a message to her 10 year old that it’s okay to be a fornicator.
I wasn’t aware that we had a cousin who lives with his girlfriend. As for our uncle, the adultery was long ago as far as I know. Even so, I would NOT attend a gathering or be around him if he had his girlfriend with him. I do the same with our sister - I will not be around her and her “girlfriend”, but I do visit when it is just her and her son and am much more kind to her than she deserves (and this has nothing to do with her “lifestyle”). This is the same sister who elbowed me in the stomach when I was 8 months pregnant - and that was by no means an isolated incident.
You neglect to tell the rest of the story concerning my 10 year old. You remember - when our sister and her girlfriend declared that my daughter (who as 4 at the time) was a lesbian because she liked ‘Xena’. No surprise, though, as they had already proclaimed one of the woman’s preteen daughters as a lesbian, as well, because she had “the look”.
I noticed you also didn’t bother to mention that, when you go on vacation to Florida, you keep it secret so you don’t have to see her. And the reason for that is???
continued…
- Status