How to like an un-likeable 10 yr old neice?

[Princess_Abby]

I don’t think it’s fair or appropriate to start labeling a 10 year old as a sociopath or psychopath (as a pp suggested)! Good Lord. Yes, she’s being antisocial to a few adults but appears to interact just fine with children–who probably don’t have any control issues with her. There is no indication that she lacks a conscience. Jeeze.

Anyway, it’s a possibility that she might have a touch of ODD–oppositional defiance disorder, which is sometimes hand in hand with ADHD and/or depression/anxiety.

ADHD is linked to autism and keeping in mind that autism is a spectrum disorder, there might be some behavioral similarities.

You might google ODD.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I am struggling with unkind feelings towards my husband’s brother’s 10 yr old daughter, whom I find extremely disrespectful.

At family gatherings, when prompted to say hello to a grownup, she’ll stare at the adult and then pointedly look away.Not once has she ever said “thank you for the ride” as we drop her off at her home after playing with our children. If I look her in the eyes and say, “Amy, I’d appreciate it if you’d say thank you when you leave our house” she’ll defiantly stare me down and remain silent.

This is not merely shyness.

• I know we are called to love, not necessarily like our neighbors; and I do indeed love her. I’d just like to like her!
• I understand she’s just a kid, and can’t be fully responsible for herself. However, she’s 10 yrs old–if she were 5 yrs old, I’d give her (and did indeed in the past give her) some leeway
• I come from a culture in which respect for elders is paramount, so this is especially egregious to me.
  Any thoughts on how I can be more charitable towards this child??

I suggest a good smack on the behind.​

Discipline (which is not to be confused with punishment) is the answer to a lot of problems. To do good, it has to be consistent; bad manners must not be punished sometimes, & tolerated sometimes.

If you can’t punish her yourself, complain to the parents, & underline the fact that her behaviour simply cannot be tolerated. It is not kind to to children to let them be so bad-mannered - they won’t be allowed to get away with it later on, so it is kindest to stop the rot now, before it gets any worse.

Children’s bad manners cannot, & must not, be indulged - it is not in the least kind to them to do so; the reverse, in fact. It goes without saying that the example of the parents is of immense importance. Spoiled egotistical bad-mannered brats are in real danger of growing up into spoiled egotistical bad-mannered adults; & who wants to have anything to do with people like that ?

 

[leonie]

I know my son “freezes up” with some adults or in some social situations. He suffers from social anxiety.

It can be really embarrassing for us when it pops up. I asked him once what is going through his head when he freezes like that. He said, it’s like a record going a hundred miles a hour saying “what do I do, what do I do, what do I do…”

It makes me so sad. When he was nine, his teacher told me that he had no respect for authority. I was shocked. Who was this kid she was talking about? Social anxiety can sometimes look like rudeness. Especially if he was being reminded or reprimanded, his anxiety would increase exponentially so he would clam up even more.

It was strange because sometimes he’d be fine and other times, he would freak out.

I don’t know if your niece is like that, but we are suppose to make “excuses” for each other and assume the best motives for behavior.

 

[dulcissima]

Since your question is how to like her rather than how to make her more likable, I’d say that it is probably not all of that difficult.

Realize that her lack of courtesy is not the actual problem. It is the symptom of some other larger problem that you have not yet identified. At some level she is expressing that she has needs that are not being met. That is not a get out of jail free card for bad behavior, but maybe it will help you understand a little bit better where she is coming from.

Since she is not your child there is not a whole lot that you can do about her lack of manners and courtesy, other than to treat her with the same level of courtesy, regardless of how she treats you. Make sure that your own children use their manners and are always models of courtesy around her. Also, be sure that she realizes that you are not trying to deprive her of her autonomy.

Since you know comments like “Amy, I’d appreciate it if you’d say thank you when you leave our house” will be met with an uncomfortable silence, I would not put her in a position to showcase her defiance. There is nothing to be gained by entering into a power struggle with her. You are not her parent, so you have very little power over her.

Something is troubling her. It could be a medical or emotional problem. I would keep that in mind when dealing with her. Think of her as an opportunity to be thankful for your own children.

Hopefully at some point she will realize that using good manners and treating people with courtesy will actually be things that empower her, much more so than rudeness and defiance.

Perhaps too you could give her parents Emily Post’s The Gift of Good Manners: A Parent’s Guide to Raising Respectful, Kind, Considerate Children by Peggy Post for Christmas.

 

[st_ignatius110]

If this is really something that bothers you to this point you need to go to her parents and talk to them…not to her. If she is indeed stubborn and disrespectful she will not listen anyway. Also, as a parent, if there is a problem with my child I would want someone to come to me…not say something to my child about his/her problems.

 

[Meggie]

She recently lost older people (step-sibilings) who were very close to her.
As adults who completely understand, or can relate to people leaving this dosn’t seem like a life-shattering idea.
However, to a kid, who lives in a world where adults do as they please, with no true regard for her, its no wonder she is wary of any adults.

I think you should invite her over to your house more often, remind your kids to show their manners and eventually your stability with them will be see by her.

Mentally, she knows to say “thankyou” but in some ways thankyou implies that she trusts and is grateful for what she’s recieving. Right now, you are being targeted, which means that you are threatening in a way…I’d say despite the you-being-invisible feeling talk to her (as another poster suggested) and come to a deal, even if its’ drawing a happy face on a post-it. Sometimes words are too hard.

 

[bjj]

I hate to say this, but I preceive it as being her parents fault. Too often, we dislike the child due to behavior and respect problems, but it isn’t their fault if no one has taught them correctly. For me, it is so sad because the child is the one who is disliked when in essence the parent should be disliked for allowing this to go on.

 

[WenckebachCath]

There is a syndrome called Aspergers It’s a mild form of autism where the person doesn’t have the normal need for social acknowledgement and interaction. They can still be functional and intelligent, but just don’t care too much about forming and maintaining relationships. They don’t pick up on social cues very well.
Aspergers Home page

Maybe she has this syndrome? Check out the site, I haven’t read it, nor am I an expert on this syndrome.

 

[WenckebachCath]

As far as your comment to her, that type of remark is usually unproductive. I have friends who have children who are less than polite, and my policy is to grin and bear it. I would advise if you value your relationship with her parents, to do the same.

 

[jmcrae]

She has 2 older siblings from her mom’s 1st marriage, who do not live with her. Apparently, when they (the half-siblings) moved out years ago Amy did not take it well.

I bet that’s the understatement of the year. I’m sure if half my family simply vanished for no apparent reason, I’d have “trust issues,” too.

I feel that when Amy can acknowledge my existence she’ll be welcome in my home! I feel harsh and mean, but can’t get over this feeling!

Have you tried simply describing your feelings to Amy? Maybe the word “rude” is too ambiguous for her - maybe she needs it spelled out that it hurts your feelings when she treats you like that. Some kids have no idea that adults even have feelings that could get hurt - it could be an eye-opener for her.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

I may draw some criticism for what I am about to say, so I have to give a little background: I am a retired US Air Force Master Sergeant who believes that respect cannot be demanded - even by one’s superiors - but that courtesy can.

I agree 100% with this!

Now, regarding the young girl at hand: This child sounds as though she is rapidly becoming sociopathic, if not psychopathic, and she needs counseling and therapy immediately. You, however, might consider taking her aside and speaking privately to her in this vein:

"Jane (or whatever her name is), what I have to say to you is just between us; your Mom and Dad don’t have to know about this because it is private.

I completely DISagree with this part!

1. I’m sick and darned well tired of every time a kid acts like a brat everyone says, "Oh. They must have (substitute just about any combination of alphabet letters in caps here) and need therapy."

What a load. Yeah, a few kids may indeed have “issues” needing dealt with on such a level, but the vast majority are just old fashioned brats with a new excuse.

**2. The first time I found out you said that to my kid - would be the last time you got anywhere near my kid. NOBODY has any business making secrets or having secret conversations with my kids from us parents. The end. It’s not up for discussion. Even with our priest, my kids say “we made confession” and know they can tell me if they want to. (I don’t ask, but they have wanted to talk in the past. Confession made them feel better about doing it - not more desiring of hiding things from us.) In fact, in our house we’ve told our children that any time they hear the word “secret”, it is code for “TELL a parent as soon as you can and leave that minute because the person saying it is NOT trust worthy!”. **

I believe this is all part of defiance. She certainly knows what’s common courtesy, but refuses, I believe, as a way of provoking adults. And it works!

**I bet it does. **
**May I recommend a sense of humor and pretending ignorance? This works well in my experience. If you KNOW she is being provoking, simply don’t let her provoke you. (Easier said than done I know!) If she wants to come play, then she must say so in a polite manner. If she didn’t like the gift, turn around and hand it to another or don’t bother with a gift next time. NEVER speak harshly. Always speak reasonably. **

**“I’m sorry, I didn’t hear you ask please?? Oh. Well if you don’t want to come that’s fine. We’ll enjoy a visit from you later maybe.” “I’m sorry our gift was not to your liking. Since you obviously don’t want it, I think I’ll donate it now instead. It’s really kind of you to be so giving to others. Thank you!” Just laugh it off as much as possible and don’t take it personal. I imagine the look on her face of shock at having a negative result for her behavior will be priceless. **

**I was one of those very quiet and introverted girls from about age 9-ish until about age 15-ish. (Yeah, quit laughing I know it’s hard to believe isn’t it? ) However, I was capable of basic manners. 10 is really not that young, goodness that’s OVER half way to voting and leaving home! It is usually obvious to family what the difference is and as you appear to spend lots of time with her and you are family - I think you have this pegged fairly well. Just remember all the times you were a pain as a kid and how glad you are for the lesson hard learned. **

 

[beckyann2597]

I don’t know if this would work, but it might be worth a try.
Next time she comes over for Dinner, ask her “Amy would you like some potatoes?” When she doesn’t say anything or just stares, then stare back expecting a response, and if she doesn’t give you one, then don’t serve her. If she tries to serve herself, then you can say “Amy, I already asked you if you would like something to eat, and you didn’t respond. If you want something at this table you have to ask for it politely, or at the very least give me a responce when I ask a question.”
And then leave it at that.
Don’t be snipey about it, do it matter of fact. And go ahead and do it in front of her parents. If her parents try to serve her anyway, stop them by saying “No No Mom and Dad. My table, my rules.”

 

[ReginaNova]

The bottom line is that you are not her parent and the things you have tried seem to have had little positive effect.

You seem to dislike the child. But you are the adult and (from your profile) you are Catholic. You should pray for compassion and understanding. A 10 year old who behaves in the ways you describe and has a family life of divorce and disruption deserves your charity, compassion, and understanding. She probably has some emotional or behavioral issues. You can only help her if you can be kind and compassionate.

 

[Lion]

This might be controversial, but I trust your good judgement as to whether or not this might work
I used to work with youth (with severe behaivour problems) and found that detachment is sometimes the only way… Love the child (always! and it sounds like you do!), but allow yourself to be okay with not liking her (for the time being). Don’t try coaxing her into telling you what you want to hear, or telling her what she should say… oftentimes when you distance yourself the child will come to you or engage you. Be a little nonchalant… once they engage you they are more willing to listen to your message. And then tell her what your needs are (set boundaries for your relationship) i.e., you know what Mary, when I drop someone off at home it really makes my heart happy to hear that person say thank you… or give an example of a situation she has witnessed where a “thank you” made someone else feel good) as opposed to “you should…” type statements
Is this manipulative? yep! But don’t forget that at the moment she is manipulating you… she is testing boundaries and probably has discovered a way to push yours
Just my 2 cents

 

[whatevergirl]

I am struggling with unkind feelings towards my husband’s brother’s 10 yr old daughter, whom I find extremely disrespectful.

At family gatherings, when prompted to say hello to a grownup, she’ll stare at the adult and then pointedly look away.Not once has she ever said “thank you for the ride” as we drop her off at her home after playing with our children. If I look her in the eyes and say, “Amy, I’d appreciate it if you’d say thank you when you leave our house” she’ll defiantly stare me down and remain silent.

This is not merely shyness.

• I know we are called to love, not necessarily like our neighbors; and I do indeed love her. I’d just like to like her!* I understand she’s just a kid, and can’t be fully responsible for herself. However, she’s 10 yrs old–if she were 5 yrs old, I’d give her (and did indeed in the past give her) some leeway
• I come from a culture in which respect for elders is paramount, so this is especially egregious to me.

Any thoughts on how I can be more charitable towards this child??

hmmm…it can be tough at times with children like this…but i have found with some of my relatives’ children and neighbors’ kids, etc…that just asking them about their day…what they are learning in school…what do they want for Christmas…what is their favorite food…sometimes, kids like this need positive attention. they have learned to get negative attention, and to them, it’s attention, just the same. they might be lacking attention, not that her parents aren’t giving it to her…but you never know what goes on at home. it’s your husband’s brother…but you still don’t really know. not that he’s a bad dad…please don’t get me wrong. but kids usually act like this, because they can’t yet intellectually express (like us adults) what is truly ailing them. so, they act like brats…babies…sulk…pout…act rude, etc. Now, she could just very well be a brat. But, try some of these questions…maybe at the next gathering…if the weather is pleasant…ask her to go for a little walk…ask her some positive questions…and pretty soon…you might end up becoming her fave aunt some day.

good luck!

 

[kesa82]

Here’s an idea; pretend to yourself that she is your best friend, pretend to yourself that you absolutely adore her ! Butter wouldn’t melt in her mouthe she’s so devine. ( the funny thing about pretending that something is true, is that if you do it hard enough and long enough, you may actually come to believe it, and in some cases it actually does become true. )

Now carry it a step further, pretend that you are an actor on a stage, and this is a role you are playing. that is, that she is your best friend and you adore her. That is , react to her behavior in the polarly opposite manner in which she, or anyone, would expect.
For example, when she stares at you and says nothing, say to yourself, or even to her, " HOW FLATTERING THAT YOU CONSIDER ME WORTH STARING AT!!!
No matter what happens, continue in this vein.
Soon enough she will have only one of three options :

• To come out matter-of-factly and blatantly hostile to you , so that it would be obvious even to a blind man. Few people want to take that road these days. She may not fear your opinion, but very few are they who don’t fear public opinion and the peer pressure that follows in its wake.
• she will be so baffled and nonplused by your" irrational "reactions that she will conclude it must be sincere, you really do adore her, so she will drop her gaurd and respond … as if she were adored.
• she will conclude that you are a few cards short of a full deck, and will then drop her gaurd, and proceed to cut you the slack that even today people tend to extend to people who are harmless mental defectives.

Yes, this strategy has worked wonderfully for me many times.

 

[Lion]

Here’s an idea; pretend to yourself that she is your best friend, pretend to yourself that you absolutely adore her ! Butter wouldn’t melt in her mouthe she’s so devine. ( the funny thing about pretending that something is true, is that if you do it hard enough and long enough, you may actually come to believe it, and in some cases it actually does become true. )

Now carry it a step further, pretend that you are an actor on a stage, and this is a role you are playing. that is, that she is your best friend and you adore her. That is , react to her behavior in the polarly opposite manner in which she, or anyone, would expect.
For example, when she stares at you and says nothing, say to yourself, or even to her, " HOW FLATTERING THAT YOU CONSIDER ME WORTH STARING AT!!!
No matter what happens, continue in this vein.
Soon enough she will have only one of three options :

• To come out matter-of-factly and blatantly hostile to you , so that it would be obvious even to a blind man. Few people want to take that road these days. She may not fear your opinion, but very few are they who don’t fear public opinion and the peer pressure that follows in its wake.
• she will be so baffled and nonplused by your" irrational "reactions that she will conclude it must be sincere, you really do adore her, so she will drop her gaurd and respond … as if she were adored.
• she will conclude that you are a few cards short of a full deck, and will then drop her gaurd, and proceed to cut you the slack that even today people tend to extend to people who are harmless mental defectives.

Yes, this strategy has worked wonderfully for me many times.

I would tend to agree, but the kid is 10 yrs old… wouldnt’ have worked with me (but that’s me :nope: )
If it works for you then I guess worth trying

 

[AmyS]

There is a syndrome called Aspergers It’s a mild form of autism where the person doesn’t have the normal need for social acknowledgement and interaction. They can still be functional and intelligent, but just don’t care too much about forming and maintaining relationships. They don’t pick up on social cues very well.
Aspergers Home page

Maybe she has this syndrome? Check out the site, I haven’t read it, nor am I an expert on this syndrome.

I was thinking the same thing, or some sort of LD… These kids don’t have appropriate social behavior, and will act differently in groups they are more comfortable with. They are often innapropriate. They also get lost in conversation because there is “too much” going on and they can’t catch up. Someone also suggested ODD… But, the other thing that stuck out was how she reacted when her half sibling left. Kids, often “act out” in those type of situations.

 

[unworthy]

WOW, I was thinking of autism also!
Hi there,
seems to me that you expect her gratitude or attention (regardless of whether she has autism or not). Do not expect it, but you give respect; that’s all. I’ve had this happen to me a lot and I feel disrespected sometimes but that’s only when I expect to be thanked.
I am at peace after extending my hand in love without expecting to be thanked. Love does not expect anything, even recognition. It is a hard principle to live by, but not so hard with the love of our Lord with us. Don’t live as though you should expect the thanks for the good that you do. It doesn’t happen in life that way for any of us.

My advice: do what you do as though you were doing it for Christ for afterall if we knew the immense mystery of the human person we would never expect anything in return; we would be serving people who are kings and queens in God’s eyes! I know it may be difficult in the beginning but that 10 year old is Christ’s princess, see her as such.

-unworthy

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Amy’s mom keeps hinting to my MIL about why Amy is never invited to stay at our house, as she just loves being with my children.

I feel that when Amy can acknowledge my existence she’ll be welcome in my home! I feel harsh and mean, but can’t get over this feeling!

Ah, so Amy wants to come to your house and her parents have brought up the subject with your MIL. Different story.

You can go to your in-laws now, preferably the one who is a blood relative to you or your husband, and say, “Mom seems to have the idea that you and Bob wonder why Amy isn’t invited to our house more. Is that true, or did she take you wrong?” This gives the in-laws the option of avoiding the subject with you.

They may say, though, “Yes, actually, we do wonder.”
You "Well, to be blunt, Amy doesn’t act as if she likes me or Tom very much. She doesn’t talk to me, doesn’t say please or thank you, and basically doesn’t act as if she notices that we exist if we don’t talk to her first…and that fact that we do exist doesn’t seem to be a pleasant surprise to her. What’s up with that? I asked her about saying please and thank you, and she seemed more mad about it than anything, so I thought it best to leave it and her alone.

“If she wants us to invite her to our house, she doesn’t seem to know how to show it. I know she likes the kids, but she is visiting us, too. Maybe you could ask her about that?”

If they try to make this your fault, don’t bite. Just say, “Carol, it isn’t out of place to expect guests in my house to observe normal courtesies. It’s up to you what you teach her and I know she has had some rough times with the divorce, but not expecting her to observe the normal niceties doesn’t do her any favors.”

Let them get back to you. Invite her over. If she makes some effort to change, don’t comment on her manners. Do comment on how you enjoyed being with her. If she makes no effort, don’t invite her again for awhile, not until the parents again ask you about it.

I would not say you are terribly hurt by her behavior. That gives her more power over you than I’d personally want to give her. If it didn’t hurt you, she’d still be rude and you’d still have reason to expect better from a guest in your home. You are only expecting from her what you expect your own kids to do at the homes of others. Stay on that ground, because there is no arguing with it.

Our kids had a friend over awhile back, and his manners were terrible. (His parents’ weren’t much better.) He has not been invited back. They have never raised the issue with me. I’m frankly thankful that they have not offered to have our kids over, or any other kids in their class that I am aware of.

The kids have asked to have him back, and I told them that he didn’t follow the rules I told him, even after being reminded several times, and that quite frankly their behavior wasn’t anything to write home about, either. I said that having him over was no treat for me or for my MIL who was there, and that since his manners had not improved in day-to-day contact, I had no intention of inviting him back.

If it were a case where I thought we might take him under our wings and improve him, that would be different, but he gets lots of training in manners at their school from the teachers. In light of that, I am not inclined to get involved with him. The kids can play with him at school, but he isn’t coming here again in the foreseeable future.