How to like an un-likeable 10 yr old neice?

[jc-servant]

OP, please continue to hold the line and require reasonable manners from your niece such as a response when questioned and “thank you” when receiving something. I personally would not have her over until she started acting better when I saw her elsewhere.

I used to meet young people all of the time who had been allowed to get to college without learning how to behave appropriately. I was with the police department, so you can imagine that many of these “introductions” to reality were unpleasant. Many of them learned life lessons at an older age than the girl in question by receiving citations, getting tossed from their dorm or the university and/or going to jail.

Being allowed to get away with defiance and self-serving behavior for many years does not prepare an individual for the real world. Many of the students actually ended up getting physically “helped” into custody because they refused to acknowledge or obey an officer’s repeated commands. These were not young thugs but “nice” young men and women from “nice” backgrounds and “good families.” A lack of proper home training recognizes no economic or social boundries. BTW, the police won’t care about her poor, poor broken home or any other excuse if her behavior does not get under control. Harsh but quite true.

 

[catsrus]

10 years old is definetly an age of reason.
Had I ever acted in a rude way like this…well I wouldn’t be here talking about it because my parents would have seen to it I landed in next week!
It sounds as though the parents tell this kid the correct responses and actions but when she refuses to act accordingly, they just shrug it off. I’d bet that kid’s been out of control since she was 2 years old.
Boy oh boy, those parents are making a bed they will not be able to sleep in in another 2 to 3 years.
Since you are stuck with this little monster (and yes, I mean monster) as a relative, I would take the advice of the poster who said to just stare her down and refuse her any request until she addresses you with politeness.
I too am sick to the death of the “all caps” excuses for brattiness these days.

 

[leonie]

Why don’t you just ask her parents if she suffers from social anxiety.

It causes selective mutism.

If so, my goodness, be kind. Social anxiety is very painful.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Why don’t you just ask her parents if she suffers from social anxiety.

It causes selective mutism.

If so, my goodness, be kind. Social anxiety is very painful.

Agreed… kindness is definitely the first step here… be as peaceful, loving, and sweet as possible.

jc-servant:

OP, please continue to hold the line and require reasonable manners from your niece such as a response when questioned and “thank you” when receiving something. I personally would not have her over until she started acting better when I saw her elsewhere.

I used to meet young people all of the time who had been allowed to get to college without learning how to behave appropriately. I was with the police department, so you can imagine that many of these “introductions” to reality were unpleasant. Many of them learned life lessons at an older age than the girl in question by receiving citations, getting tossed from their dorm or the university and/or going to jail.

Being allowed to get away with defiance and self-serving behavior for many years does not prepare an individual for the real world. Many of the students actually ended up getting physically “helped” into custody because they refused to acknowledge or obey an officer’s repeated commands. These were not young thugs but “nice” young men and women from “nice” backgrounds and “good families.” A lack of proper home training recognizes no economic or social boundries. BTW, the police won’t care about her poor, poor broken home or any other excuse if her behavior does not get under control. Harsh but quite true.

catsrus:

10 years old is definetly an age of reason.
Had I ever acted in a rude way like this…well I wouldn’t be here talking about it because my parents would have seen to it I landed in next week!
It sounds as though the parents tell this kid the correct responses and actions but when she refuses to act accordingly, they just shrug it off. I’d bet that kid’s been out of control since she was 2 years old.
Boy oh boy, those parents are making a bed they will not be able to sleep in in another 2 to 3 years.
Since you are stuck with this little monster (and yes, I mean monster) as a relative, I would take the advice of the poster who said to just stare her down and refuse her any request until she addresses you with politeness.
I too am sick to the death of the “all caps” excuses for brattiness these days.

I’m assuming from your profiles that neither of you have children, correct?

 

[Jay2]

Follow the Master Sargeant’s advise.

“common” respect (and behavior) for elders is a parenting item. If someone is 1+ feet taller than you, and older by 5+ years they are Mr., Mrs., Auntie, Uncle, Grandma/pa, etc. NOT your equal, not your buddy, they are an ADULT.

Anyway, it’s a possibility that she might have a touch of ODD–oppositional defiance disorder, which is sometimes hand in hand with ADHD and/or depression/anxiety.

Too bad. This is no excuse for a kid being a BRAT… medical deficiency or not. I’ll get slammed here but kids are like puppies. There’s no faster way to imprint who’s “Alpha Dog” than a verbal tongue-lashing or a cuff to the noggin.

They will learn that “that’s someone who I can’t play around with… Mommy’s rules don’t apply with this guy…”

Where did all these acronyms come from in the last 10 years??

Find some common ground with your neice. Maintain your posture as an adult, and express that you’d like to be her friend - but “I won’t tolerate any of your shtick/shenanigans”.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Follow the Master Sargeant’s advise.

“common” respect (and behavior) for elders is a parenting item. If someone is 1+ feet taller than you, and older by 5+ years they are Mr., Mrs., Auntie, Uncle, Grandma/pa, etc. NOT your equal, not your buddy, they are an ADULT.

Too bad. This is no excuse for a kid being a BRAT… medical deficiency or not. I’ll get slammed here but kids are like puppies. There’s no faster way to imprint who’s “Alpha Dog” than a verbal tongue-lashing or a cuff to the noggin.

They will learn that “that’s someone who I can’t play around with… Mommy’s rules don’t apply with this guy…”

Where did all these acronyms come from in the last 10 years??

Find some common ground with your niece. Maintain your posture as an adult, and express that you’d like to be her friend - but “I won’t tolerate any of your shtick/shenanigans”.

Well said. Sometimes children do have medical or psychological problems - but it is very dangerous to invoke medical explanations all the time; it treats them, not as beings who are responsible for their actions, good* or bad*, but as bundles of psychological or medical ailments - & that is demeaning.​

Otherwise, good behaviour can in principle be medicalised too - but if we don’t say, “Little Johnny’s body chemistry is making him behave well”, & if little Johnny can be told what a good boy he is, then little Johnny can be punished when he is not a good boy; IOW, when he is a bad boy, who needs to be given a telling-off (or whatever may be appropriate).

Why medicalise misbehaviour, & not good behaviour too ? It we do that - what happens to moral judgements & human freedom ?

 

[Giovanna]

Some of the responses here are serious wild pitches. The kid is not an autistic or a sociopath; she is a young person who has chosen to use her domestic troubles as an excuse to treat others poorly. It really is that simple.

If you think you’re up to the challenge of correcting her compassionately, do so; if, on the other hand, you find her behavior provoking you to anger or grief too often, bow out of active duty, and continue to keep her in your prayers.

Adults, after all, are due love and compassion, too. Ten is plenty old enough to grasp this. And, to protect yourself from the temptations her poor choices provoke in you, is downright wise.

 

[PRmerger]

As the OP, I’m finding 2 types of responses:

Lovingly but firmly maintain my expectations of respect/common courtesy due to an adult

     vs

Kill her with kindess

Kind of like the Liberal vs Conservative debate, huh?

Just my :twocents:

 

[jc-servant]

Agreed… kindness is definitely the first step here… be as peaceful, loving, and sweet as possible.

I’m assuming from your profiles that neither of you have children, correct?

It appears that you are also “assuming” that requiring decent behavior and establishing boundaries is not “kind” or peaceful? Please don’t try to devalue someone else’s opinion because they are not a “mommy” like yourself. I used to be a police officer, but I was also a juvenile prosecutor with victims as young as infants and horrible acts done by kids as young as 11. Maybe I know a few things about kids at all ages that you have not experienced as a “mommy.” (I pray to God that you never have to deal with half of what I know happens on a daily basis with children.)

Other people besides the family of a child have to deal with the parenting (or lack thereof) that each child receives at some point. It can simply be irritating such as a child screaming and pulling things off shelves in a store while his mother ignores him. It can be as horrible as a kid who kills a man who offered him a ride home and then tried to abuse him at knifepoint. I wished as I went with that latter child to the hospital and then the juvenile lock up that anyone had given him the guidance and respect for rules and boundaries that would have kept him from being in that horrible situation. He was just a quiet, shy kid before that according our investigation, but his divorced mother felt guilty making him stick to the rules. She felt a lot worse once his life was changed forever.

Don’t make the mistake of thinking that a person cannot end up in a seriously bad situation because they are only 10 or 11 or 12 or because they are a female. The thing that may stand between this young girl and some trouble later on might be one courageous aunt who taught her in an appropriate manner about boundaries and respect.

 

[leonie]

As the OP, I’m finding 2 types of responses:

Lovingly but firmly maintain my expectations of respect/common courtesy due to an adult

     vs

Kill her with kindess

Kind of like the Liberal vs Conservative debate, huh?

Just my :twocents:

I think you are still assuming that she is being defiant when she may just be extremely shy–the point of anxiety-- with adults.

 

[leonie]

I have another idea. Have her over to dinner with your children and initiate a conversation on manners. Ahead of time, you might even ask one of your kids to let you reprimand him for the offense that is bothering you. Then, you could even act out with the kids their proper response.

Parent: Okay, kids, let’s see if you can give the proper response. Winners get dessert!

Hello, son, nice to see you. How are you today?

son: I’m fine, Mr. Doe, how are you.

Parent: Bingo! That was great.

Your turn, niece, nice to see you how are you today?

Niece: …

What do you think?

Ten is still pretty young, I think.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

I think you are still assuming that she is being defiant when she may just be extremely shy–the point of anxiety-- with adults.

Ten is still pretty young, I think.

**By no means is a 10 a full adult, but it is plenty old enough to comprehend and utilize basic common curtesy or suffer the results of not doing so. **

---

Shyness might be a bigger factor if this were a different situation. But it isn’t. This is a family member that is involved and around on a regular basis. By what she has said, it appears this aunt is clued in enough to know the difference in this situation.

---

I certainly know the difference with my kids. I can tell when it’s shyness or uncertainy vs “attitude”. Those who are related and involved on a personal level often are very aware of the subtle differences in body or verbal language of the individual kid.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

As the OP, I’m finding 2 types of responses:

Lovingly but firmly maintain my expectations of respect/common courtesy due to an adult

vs

Kill her with kindess

Kind of like the Liberal vs Conservative debate, huh?

Just my :twocents:

Well, probably, but I think it a poor course of action to decide how to approach the problem based on one’s politics.

I would think of myself as fairly liberal, but also think that a kid who is not taught manners is being seriously short-changed.

I also think that the kids with the best manners are those who learn them out of a desire to please. Those are the ones who say “thank you” and mean it, because they have learned to be grateful for what others do for them. They address adults, but with respect, because they have an appreciation for adults and because they value themselves as the kind of kids who respect others and know how to show it. After all, manners without a true relationship underpinning them are just social conventions. They do not make those on the receiving end feel particularly respected.

Also, a kid who is being rebellious and defiant because they feel they have been rejected themselves and are just going to beat everyone else to the punch are not going to respond to social training in the same way as a kid who is just testing to see how the power structure will hold up to a challenge. The former group have their whole selves wrapped up in “winning” the battle they’ve joined. You’ll never get anywhere unless you let them know that you accept them totally, and only want them to change their manners in order to have better relationships with others.

In the end, manners need to come from parents. If they don’t, they can hardly be imposed by anyone else except in the context of “You are made of good stuff, and I expect your behavior to rise to the level of your value.” Come to think of it, that is really the only way parents instill them. Manners that come from that basis are the manners of people with class, because they hold up no matter how the person is treated by others.

I don’t think there is a conservative vs. liberal difference when manners are looked at in that way. The ones who differ are conservatives who instill manners in order to enforce some heirarchy and liberals who rebel against them for the same reason. In that battle, it hardly matters who wins, as it is all built on the sand of deciding who is the most important. If you’re serious about keeping the main thing the main thing, you don’t even want to go there.

As for killing her with kindness, a ten year old with the family problems this one has should probably be seeing a professional to sort out her feelings and reactions to the world. Her home has been broken and re-broken, her foundations shaken, and she and her parents will need some help in restoring her faith in them. Without knowing she stands on a trustworthy foundation, why should respecting the social order be of consequence to her? It is the least of her worries. How the OP fits into all of that is worth discussing with the parents when this conversation takes place.

 

[Em_in_FL]

It appears that you are also “assuming” that requiring decent behavior and establishing boundaries is not “kind” or peaceful? Please don’t try to devalue someone else’s opinion because they are not a “mommy” like yourself. I used to be a police officer, but I was also a juvenile prosecutor with victims as young as infants and horrible acts done by kids as young as 11. Maybe I know a few things about kids at all ages that you have not experienced as a “mommy.” (I pray to God that you never have to deal with half of what I know happens on a daily basis with children.)

I had no intention of devaluing your opinion. (my apologies if you felt that way).
My intention was to point out that you don’t have a motherly connection with children.

It sounds like your background is with serious cases… so maybe we’re both tainted by our personal circumstances.

Just in my personal experience… warming up to kids is a good way to get their respect also. The OP has not mentioned “serious” issues, just a lack of respect.

Sounds pretty normal for a 10 year old… she’s probably hormonal. Hormonal girls will probably bend to sympathy more than harshness… just my opinion…

(hope that explains my thoughts less agressively)

 

[kage_ar]

“common” respect (and behavior) for elders is a parenting item. If someone is 1+ feet taller than you, and older by 5+ years they are Mr., Mrs., Auntie, Uncle, Grandma/pa, etc. NOT your equal, not your buddy, they are an ADULT

Agree with you here. The parents need teach the child, if not, they are setting this child up for a hard time in school, in the job world, in personal relationships… I’d have a heart to heart with the parents.

Since the child is in your family, could you give a gift certificate to an ettiquite class as a Christmas or birthday gift?

One thing about the above quote, when teaching this as a rule of thumb to your kids, please make it “1+feet taller than you and/OR older by 5+ years” - because if your kids ever become my CCD students, all four foot tall of me wants to be treated as an adult

 

[catsrus]

originally posted by Em_in_FL
I’m assuming from your profiles that neither of you have children, correct?

You assume incorrectly.
I raised 3 in the same manner by which I was raised.
I brooked no @%^O from them as my parents did not from us.
Mine are now 38, 40 and 43 and more mannerly people you will never meet.
I totally agree with the poster who said “kids are like puppies. You must let them know who’s the alpha dog”.
Far too many “parents” are more interested in being a child’s friend rather than their life teacher.

P.S. Why would you assume from my profile that I have no children? I just re-read it and I’m wondering what I put in there that gives that impression.

 

[leonie]

**By no means is a 10 a full adult, but it is plenty old enough to comprehend and utilize basic common curtesy or suffer the results of not doing so. **

---

Shyness might be a bigger factor if this were a different situation. But it isn’t. This is a family member that is involved and around on a regular basis. By what she has said, it appears this aunt is clued in enough to know the difference in this situation.

---

I certainly know the difference with my kids. I can tell when it’s shyness or uncertainy vs “attitude”. Those who are related and involved on a personal level often are very aware of the subtle differences in body or verbal language of the individual kid.

I disagree.

My child who has social anxiety has been accused of being disrespectful when in actuality, he was anxious beyond words.

 

[leonie]

Just in my personal experience… warming up to kids is a good way to get their respect also. The OP has not mentioned “serious” issues, just a lack of respect.

Sounds pretty normal for a 10 year old… she’s probably hormonal. Hormonal girls will probably bend to sympathy more than harshness… just my opinion…

I agree that this is not that serious. She’s not talking back. She’s not lying or cursing. She’s not stealing or being violent. She’s not teasing or taunting.

Definitely workable. As aunts and uncles, I think we have an obligation to try to influence our nieces and nephews for the better and not write them off on such a minor thing.

I know that I will be reprimanded for using the word “minor.”

When I have a problem with one of my nieces and nephews, I either “kid” them out of it or, I just tell them upfront to cut it out. Occasionally, I’ve had to go to parents with complaints.

I think the strident tones that some have express are more related to the general disgust of the breakdown in courtesy in society than this particular instance…

 

[Em_in_FL]

You assume incorrectly.
I raised 3 in the same manner by which I was raised.
I brooked no @%^O from them as my parents did not from us.
Mine are now 38, 40 and 43 and more mannerly people you will never meet.
I totally agree with the poster who said “kids are like puppies. You must let them know who’s the alpha dog”.
Far too many “parents” are more interested in being a child’s friend rather than their life teacher.

P.S. Why would you assume from my profile that I have no children? I just re-read it and I’m wondering what I put in there that gives that impression.

My total apologies. I assumed incorrectly (just figured someone would mention being a mom in their profile)… clearly my stupid mistake.

We obviously just differ in our opinions of discipline, though… we’ll just agree to disagree.

 

[PRmerger]

I think you are still assuming that she is being defiant when she may just be extremely shy–the point of anxiety-- with adults.

I am not trying to deny that she may indeed be shy, introverted and quiet.

But there is definitely an element of defiance in her refusal to offer common courtesy to adults. She looks as if she’s trying not to smile–she sort of sucks in her cheeks as she looks at you and then looks away.

My original dilemma was whether I was being too hard and unkind…but I think after reading these posts I believe that she should not be allowed to behave in this manner. Obviously, since I am not her parent, I am limited by what I can do. But I can still teach her that if she’s at my house, she must acknowledge me if she wishes to be invited back!