How to react when people cat-call your wife in public

[BornInMarch]

You can call over a waiter or approach the manager. Depending on the kind of establishment you’re in that kind of cat-calling can have someone thrown out for harassing other customers or causing a nuisance. Generally resturantiers and club-owners want their establishments to have a welcoming environment because that way customers keep coming back.

 

[BornInMarch]

Also, at what point are we permitted to get violent if need be with someone if they become more aggressive with their come-ons?

If the rude guy tries touching or grabbing then it’s permitted to get violent. You and your wife have the legal and moral right to self-defense.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If the rude guy tries touching or grabbing then it’s permitted to get violent. You and your wife have the legal and moral right to self-defense.

The appropriate thing to do would be to move his wife to a place of safety and alert bar security to deal with the problem customer.
If it happens outside the bar, he should be moving his wife to a place of safety and calling the police.

“Getting violent” is not only un-Christian, but also it is likely to result in him being thrown out of the bar and/or arrested and charged and/or possibly hurt or killed himself.

 

[Beryllos]

You and your wife have the legal and moral right to self-defense.

Careful there. No one has a right to escalate from a touch or a grab to a punch. It’s also very unwise. You never know where violence will lead. As @Tis_Bearself wrote just above, that could land the hubby in jail, the hospital, or worse.

 

[BornInMarch]

The appropriate thing to do would be to move his wife to a place of safety and alert bar security to deal with the problem customer.
If it happens outside the bar, he should be moving his wife to a place of safety and calling the police.

Careful there. No one has a right to escalate from a touch or a grab to a punch. It’s also very unwise. You never know where violence will lead

Sometimes a dangerous situation can’t be escaped from, bystanders aren’t willing to do help, and the police can’t be contacted. In situations like that self-defense is a legal and moral right.

If a man grabs a woman inappropriately or corners her while making threatening gestures and her reaction is to break his jaw with a well-placed punch then the police won’t arrest her. They’ll probably take her testimony when they arrest the guy.

Whether you mean to or not, when you say “never use violence” the implicit statement that goes along with that is “if someone wants to hurt you then you should let them”.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Have you actually been in this type of situation or known someone who has?

The last guy I knew who broke someone’s jaw in a bar was sent to prison for 2 years and had to pay a lot of restitution to the man he punched. The courts were not particularly interested in what started it.

Also, have fun with that jaw-breaking hero stuff when the guy you decide to punch has three buddies and/or a gun or even a knife.

 

[BornInMarch]

Have you actually been in this type of situation or known someone who has? The last guy I know who broke someone’s jaw in a bar was sent to prison for 2 years and had to pay a lot of restitution to the man he punched. The courts were not particularly interested in what started it. Also, have fun with that jaw-breaking hero stuff when the guy you decide to punch has three buddies and/or a gun or even a knife.

The right to use force to defend oneself is broadly accepted in the legal systems of most countries; why are you pretending it doesn’t exist?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

What legal system do you operate in? Are you a lawyer?

This conversation isn’t making much sense to me, sorry. Good evening.

 

[Beryllos]

You may think that in the use of violence, you are in control. That’s a Hollywood fantasy. You really don’t know, you can’t know, how it will end. One it starts, the devil is in control.

 

[blackforest]

If you are in a public space and someone cat-calls your wife and makes an innuendo at her…What is the proper response to that?

I haven’t read all of the replies.

Have you asked your wife what she thinks?

As a married woman, I like a manly glare and an arm going around me.

Also, at what point are we permitted to get violent if need be with someone if they become more aggressive with their come-ons?

Violence is only acceptable as self-defense. Editing to add - there should be a direct and imminent threat to your lives.

I’m afraid to go to bars and stuff with my wife because she does tend to get cat-called alot in public, and I just try to avoid an awkward situation.

What kind of bars are you visiting? There are plenty of family-friendly sports pubs in my area where even the prettiest college students don’t get cat-called. (Vulgar!)

 

[BornInMarch]

What legal system do you operate in? Are you a lawyer?

This is basic stuff. I don’t need to be a lawyer to know this for the same reason I don’t need to be a lawyer to know that trials are determined by juries of one’s peers.

But if you want sources, here’s what a legal website says about self-defense.

The defendant is not guilty of [whatever forceful act was used in self defense] if he/she used force against the other person in lawful self defense or in defense of another. The defendant acted in lawful self defense or defense of another if:

1. The defendant reasonably believed that (he/she or someone else) was in imminent danger of suffering bodily injury (or was in imminent danger of being touched unlawfully);
2. The defendant reasonably believed that the immediate use of force was necessary to defend against that danger; AND
3. The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger

For the moral end, the Catechism also supports self defense.

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow.

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm.

Your claim that violence is never justified, or that the court won’t care who started a fight, directly contradicts what the law says. I cited sources to back up my argument.

You may think that in the use of violence, you are in control. That’s a Hollywood fantasy. You really don’t know, you can’t know, how it will end. One it starts, the devil is in control.

Have you read what I said? All I said was that people have the right to defend themselves with force. As for the devil being in control, I’ll refer back to my catechism quote which called legitimate defense not only a right but a grave duty in certain situations.

Anyway, I edited my post to be more clear about what I meant and because I think my first draft might have been too emotional.

 

[Beryllos]

tell their intended victim “just let it happen.”

Apart from you, nobody said that. What I said was that the hubby does not have a right to escalate. Even if it is legal, it may be unwise. You don’t want to be dead right.

I know that Catechism passage inside and out. It may be used to justify the defense of life, but not the defense of honor. The man’s honor, and his wife’s honor, was all that was at stake in the scenario posed in the Original Post of this thread. It’s foolish, not to mention un-Christian, to start a fist fight over honor.

 

[Maximian]

Take her to a better class of bar

 

[BornInMarch]

Apart from you, nobody said that.

I’ll admit that was a poor choice of words, which is why I removed it in subsequent edits. My bad.

What I said was that the hubby does not have a right to escalate. Even if it is legal, it may be unwise. You don’t want to be dead right.

I’ll concede that this is correct. Using force should be the last resort, after other attempts to deescalate or exit the situation failed.

I know that Catechism passage inside and out. It may be used to justify the defense of life, but not the defense of honor. The man’s honor, and his wife’s honor, was all that was at stake in the scenario posed in the Original Post of this thread. It’s foolish, not to mention un-Christian, to start a fist fight over honor.

This is the line that made me the wife was at risk of bodily harm or was being threatened with such:

if they become more aggressive

 

[Beryllos]

@BornInMarch, I’m following your reasoning, sorry I missed that edit, and I see your point referring to the original post. We’re not really so far apart on this. I have to take a break from this thread now.

 

[BornInMarch]

@Beryllos Glad we could reach some level of understanding.

 

[TheLittleLady]

This sounds far more like a scene from a movie than real life in the modern USA.

 

[Polak]

I agree with those saying violence is absolutely the last option. I could only see it being necessary if they try to get physical with you and/or your wife. Hopefully people around would also help out if they saw what was going on.

If it’s just noises and stares, I suggest ignoring it, and if it continues either call a member of staff so they can have a word and hopefully kick the guys out if they carry on, or if the reaction of the staff isn’t satisfactory, just leave.

 

[neophyte]

“Getting violent” is not only un-Christian,

Self defense is absolutely Christian, and I find the idea that it’s not to be bizarre.

 

[neophyte]

What I said was that the hubby does not have a right to escalate.

It’s not escalation to hit someone who assaulted your wife. It’s a proportionate and legitimate use of force in defense of another.