How to Relate to Transgendered Person?

[JennyAnne]

This implies a certain cruelty on God’s part I cannot accept. Being born as the “wrong gender,” as many trans* folks are, is uncomfortable at best and torturous at first. Look up gender dysphoria, a legitimate psychological issue that causes unimaginable suffering. Certainly it is no “challenge,” but a lifetime of struggle, at great financial cost, I might add.

To the OP, I suggest you treat this classmate like you would any other male. Your opinions on his gender are unnecessary in a school environment and would likely only cause embarrassment to the student. Whatever your personal convictions, putting a classmate in a humiliating and uncomfortable situation probably in front of his peers is not charitable.

A lot of things cause suffering. There are many psychological and physical disorders that make the victim suffer greatly. What about those? Didn’t God create them too?

 

[naomily]

A lot of things cause suffering. There are many psychological and physical disorders that make the victim suffer greatly. What about those? Didn’t God create them too?

I think the Catholic perspective (or one of the many Catholic perspectives) is that sickness is a result of original sin. God does not cause any sort of physical or mental impairment.

It seems profoundly unjust for a loving God to purposefully create illnesses like leukemia or schizophrenia.

 

[SMGS127]

I think the Catholic perspective (or one of the many Catholic perspectives) is that sickness is a result of original sin. God does not cause any sort of physical or mental impairment.

It seems profoundly unjust for a loving God to purposefully create illnesses like leukemia or schizophrenia.

All birth defects, illnesses, suffering, etc. are caused by original sin. Essentially, God creates something perfect and original sin works to corrupt it. Our glorified bodies will be perfect again when we go to Heaven though!

 

[JennyAnne]

Alright then, incorrect gender assignment is caused by original sin. Makes sense to me.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I don’t believe God made a mistake, because God doesn’t make mistakes. He simply gave them a challenge. An obstacle to overcome. He made them the wrong gender on purpose.

There is a difference between actively causing a situation and passively permitting it to be

 

[sw85]

This implies a certain cruelty on God’s part I cannot accept. Being born as the “wrong gender,” as many trans* folks are, is uncomfortable at best and torturous at first. Look up gender dysphoria, a legitimate psychological issue that causes unimaginable suffering. Certainly it is no “challenge,” but a lifetime of struggle, at great financial cost, I might add.

Two responses her. First, you said earlier, here, that

I think the Catholic perspective (or one of the many Catholic perspectives) is that sickness is a result of original sin. God does not cause any sort of physical or mental impairment.

Why then do you think it is impossible that “gender dysphoria” is not likewise a sickness resulting from original sin?

Second, you call “gender dysphoria” a “psychological issue,” immediately after you say they are “born in the wrong gender.” If they are, in fact, “born in the wrong gender” then the issue is not psychological, it is biological. By calling it a “psychological issue” you seem to acknowledge the issue is not biological, it is mental.

There is a disorder out there in which people fail to identify with their bodies in other ways. Some feel they are born with too many limbs or too many fingers, and seek to rectify the “problem” by having them removed – sometimes by doing so themselves. Are these people “born in the wrong body”? Or do they have psychological issues?

If they have psychological issues then they are in no place to be demanding that doctors cut off body parts!

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Two responses her. First, you said earlier, here, that

Why then do you think it is impossible that “gender dysphoria” is not likewise a sickness resulting from original sin?

Second, you call “gender dysphoria” a “psychological issue,” immediately after you say they are “born in the wrong gender.” If they are, in fact, “born in the wrong gender” then the issue is not psychological, it is biological. By calling it a “psychological issue” you seem to acknowledge the issue is not biological, it is mental.

There is a disorder out there in which people fail to identify with their bodies in other ways. Some feel they are born with too many limbs or too many fingers, and seek to rectify the “problem” by having them removed – sometimes by doing so themselves. Are these people “born in the wrong body”? Or do they have psychological issues?

If they have psychological issues then they are in no place to be demanding that doctors cut off body parts!

Increasingly evidence is pointing towards the transgendered brain being wired towards the wrong mix of hormones in utero and that this is uncorrectable by therapy.

 

[Kamaduck]

Two responses her. First, you said earlier, here, that

Why then do you think it is impossible that “gender dysphoria” is not likewise a sickness resulting from original sin?

Second, you call “gender dysphoria” a “psychological issue,” immediately after you say they are “born in the wrong gender.” If they are, in fact, “born in the wrong gender” then the issue is not psychological, it is biological. By calling it a “psychological issue” you seem to acknowledge the issue is not biological, it is mental.

There is a disorder out there in which people fail to identify with their bodies in other ways. Some feel they are born with too many limbs or too many fingers, and seek to rectify the “problem” by having them removed – sometimes by doing so themselves. Are these people “born in the wrong body”? Or do they have psychological issues?

If they have psychological issues then they are in no place to be demanding that doctors cut off body parts!

It’s not impossible for both conditions to exist. There are people who are confused about their gender, or who wish to be the other gender for whatever reason. But just because those people exist doesn’t mean that there can’t be trans people with some variety of biological intersex condition. It may be difficult to tell one apart from the other at first, but that doesn’t mean that a possible medical condition should be ruled out.

I’d also like to say that transgenderism is very different from the things that people often compare it to- people who think they are the wrong race, class, species, etc- simply because we know there are medical conditions that can make gender ambiguous. There isn’t a condition that can make people part tiger, but there ARE conditions where someone can end up with both male gonads and female breasts, for example. If we know that people sometimes exhibit traits of both sexes at once, why is it unbelievable that someone could end up with a brain that is at odds with the rest of their body?

Anyway, that’s why I give trans people the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Rin]

I’d also like to say that transgenderism is very different from the things that people often compare it to- people who think they are the wrong race, class, species, etc- simply because we know there are medical conditions that can make gender ambiguous. There isn’t a condition that can make people part tiger, but there ARE conditions where someone can end up with both male gonads and female breasts, for example. If we know that people sometimes exhibit traits of both sexes at once, why is it unbelievable that someone could end up with a brain that is at odds with the rest of their body?

As you say, there’s a difference in biological possibility - a human embryo simply doesn’t develop into a human body with a tiger brain. Since “race” is a matter of skin tone and to some extent bodily features, such a dysphoria makes even less sense - different ethnicities don’t have different brains. This goes for all the other “conditions” people bring up, they’re biologically and logically impossible, and they don’t really exist. Those few who claim to be “trans-ethnic” or “trans-species” seem to be more affected by a compulsive need for attention, or perhaps for bad satire. Trans people on the other hand generally prefer to blend in, and hate receiving attention for their history.

The human embryo does however have “roadmaps” for both genders genetically, for the brain as well as the body. That such incongruence can occur is scientifically not only uncontroversial, but proved. The comparison to fictional disorders that I see a lot on CAF is ignorant, as well as infantile.

(Note: There are observed cases where adopted children who grow up with parents and classmates of a different ethnicity develop a sort of dysphoria as they realize they don’t look the same. However, it is to my knowledge always transient, therapy brings good results, and there is no reason to believe the condition would have occurred if they were not adopted. It is not due to brain structures.)

 

[ashtonh2001]

That is to say, my instincts and life experience tell me this person is female, and not male. I cannot in good conscience use masculine pronouns to refer to her, because it would seem to be a lie – that is, I have “reasonable certainty” that this person is female.

. What are your thoughts?

Dude really if she is trans she is male, he may not have gotten the operation yet but he identifies as male so it is disrespectful to call him a female regardless of his birth gender.

 

[Tigg]

I may be alone with this opinion here, but I believe being transgender is not a sin or even a problem.

Is anyone at all interested in what it has been reported that the Pope has said about this? Quite frankly, I am finding some of these threads disingenuous because it seems gays already have their own opinions and the many and numerous threads on this and related topics illustrate that some just want to push the envelope and debate in favor of their own erroneous thinking.

Bishop Kazimierz Ryczan of Kielce, referred to gender ideology as a “contemporary Herod” which seeks to destroy the family. In an article published just this week on Kath.net entitled Pope Francis: The gender ideology is demonic (which I only have a google translation of) Bishop Andreas Laun of Salzburg expressed similarly strong opposition. He noted that Pope Francis had called the gender identity movement demonic. Take the time to read the comments made by Francis to the Bishop concerning this gender identity movement. Facebook now offers 51 genders from which one can choose in self identifying online. This is lunacy on a cultural scale.

The supporters of this movement claim we have both the ability - and the right - to choose our own gender, or, for that matter, to change our mind after allegedly having made such a choice. The words of creation recorded in Genesis, “God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” (Gen 1:27) are simply being rejected.

Gender is no longer received as a gift, a given. **The rebellion of Eden is being revealed in the growing number of some who have determined that they are the creator and reject reality.
**
catholic.org/news/national/story.php?id=54514

Pope Francis strongly condemned “gender ideology” in a private conversation with Austrian Bishop Andreas Laun earlier this year, the bishop related in a recent essay.

Writing of gender ideology, Bishop Laun explained that “the core thesis of this sick product of reason is the end result of a radical feminism which the homosexual lobby has made its own.”

**“Gender ideology is the deepest rebellion against God that is possible,” ……Man does not accept that he is created as man or woman, no, he says, ‘I decide! This is my freedom!’ - against experience, against nature, against reason, against science!”
**
“Today,” he said, “it is promoted by governments and VIPs and substantial amounts of money are spent on spreading it, even in teaching materials for kindergartens and schools.”

Pope Benedict also addressed gender ideology “It is the duty of pastors of the Church,” said Pope Benedict, “to put the Catholic faithful and every person of good will and right reason on guard against the trend of these ideologies.”

virtueonline.org/vatican-austrian-bishop-pope-francis-told-me-%E2%80%98gender-ideology-demonic%E2%80%99-0

As to your question, OP, I have no answer.

 

[PutresOmega]

You are disagreeing with something this person feels is inherent to them. While you are free to do so, doing so openly if not friends already will have repercussions. If you are wanting to keep from creating enemies of your faith then I would strongly suggest avoiding contact or softening your approach. Meet this person on their level and gain a better understanding of their experience then go from there. It seems to really bother you though so avoidance maybe best.

The supporters of this movement claim we have both the ability - and the right - to choose our own gender, or, for that matter, to change our mind after allegedly having made such a choice. The words of creation recorded in Genesis, “God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” (Gen 1:27) are simply being rejected.

Gender is no longer received as a gift, a given. The rebellion of Eden is being revealed in the growing number of some who have determined that they are the creator and reject reality.

“Gender ideology is the deepest rebellion against God that is possible,” ……Man does not accept that he is created as man or woman, no, he says, ‘I decide! This is my freedom!’ - against experience, against nature, against reason, against science!”

It saddens me to see so many Church leaders engaging in peddling falsehood like this. They are doing a great deal of violence to the Church with statements like these. The supporters and transgender people themselves claim no such thing. The claim is that some people feel they are born with the wrong gender not that people choose to alter their gender to spite reality, God, the Church, or society. While there are some gender fluid people who can go back and forth, most transgender people I have met are one way and have been that way as long as they can remember. This is corroborated by the APA, the WHO, and other groups who have studied the phenomenon.

My personal experience and reality disagrees with the quotes above. If your side wants to correct our “erroneous thinking” then present us with the truth and not all of these hastily cobbled falsehoods, lazy apologetic, and appeals to authority. Until then I will continue correcting the error in the Church whenever and wherever I can to anyone who will listen or read what I say in the hopes that when this foundation of sand finally does cause the superstructure of their power to collapse, that it doesn’t drag what is actually true and good into oblivion with it.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Is anyone at all interested in what it has been reported that the Pope has said about this? Quite frankly, I am finding some of these threads disingenuous because it seems gays already have their own opinions and the many and numerous threads on this and related topics illustrate that some just want to push the envelope and debate in favor of their own erroneous thinking.

As to your question, OP, I have no answer.

The gender ideology that is being referred to is the idea that the only difference between men and women is psychology, that there are no innate male or female tendencies in personalities and that is most definitely not how most transgender people think.

 

[ronmike]

I am a 66 year old female to male transgender. Nobody that I meet suspects that I am anything but male. I have facial hair, a male voice, no breasts and I’m balding. Ever since I can remember I felt that I should be male. I’m well aware that I can’t change my gender biologically. Nevertheless, seeing what I expect to see in the mirror and having society at large treat me as male is more important than non-transgendered people can generally understand.
I can assure you that if you refer to a transgendered person by pronouns other than those for his or her assumed gender, you will alienate them. I, personally, would not even respond to what I perceive to be the wrong pronouns, choosing to assume that they were not directed to me.
Now to a question that I haven’t seen raised before. I am a “gay” transgender in that, although I identify as male, I have a boyfriend. My question is, what is our status if we were to get married in a Christian ceremony? Obviously procreation, at our age, would not be possible in any event.

 

[Matilda_Bennett]

This thread has been dormant for a considerable period. With rare exceptions, reviving threads after a protracted period of inactivity is discouraged because:

• the issues that spurred them are often no longer “hot” or current topics, explaining why thread activity ceased originally.
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Our experience suggests that, when a topic merits revival, it is best accomplished by initiating a new thread that draws on recent events and can be posted to contemporaneously. This eliminates the baggage of folks being frustrated by asking and not receiving responses to issues raised in early posts (because the new poster didn’t notice that the post he was responding to was made a long time ago).

Posters are very welcome to open a new thread on the subject or any other topic, as well as to actively participate in the myriad active threads in the fora.
**
Thank you to all those who have participated in this discussion. This thread is now closed. **