How to respond to: "Explain why your god is REAL while Zeus is imaginary"

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You can hear what you believe to be zues calling to you?
No, not Zeus in particular and not in the sense of “hearing voices” or a “road to Damascus” situation. I speak more metaphorically, in the way that people speak of being called to or drawn into the service of a particular God or Gods. You may or may not be familiar with converts to pretty much any religion speaking of a feeling of “coming home” when they finally come to their particular religion, a sense of completion, of peace, of “rightness.”

Sorry, my grammar in my previous post was not all that it should be. It should have read “They are the Gods that call to me.”
 
There are aspects of ancient Greek religion and culture that I do not follow any more than modern Jews or Christians follow every aspect of the origins of their religions and cultures.
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Yes, that may be true. But it was never apart Of the Christian faith or the Old testement Abrahamic faiths to give human sacrifices to God.
Secondly i think you misinterpret the meaning of Christs sacrifice.

Thirdly, i find it disturbing that you would believe in a God that would demand human sacrifices for spirtual favors.

However, you are free to believe what you want.
 
It should have read “They are the Gods that call to me.”
A long time ago, i use to play with the idea of believing in Zues, because i liked the stories so much.

What does greek theology have to say about the universes creation?
 
A long time ago, i use to play with the idea of believing in Zues, because i liked the stories so much.

What does greek theology have to say about the universes creation?
There are various stories of creation, but, as you must realize if you studied them at all (and the spelling is “Zeus” btw), they are not “divinely revealed texts” as is claimed by Christianity, Judaism and Islam for their sacred stories nor expected to be read as literally true in an historical sense. Rather, the stories of the Gods and humanity’s interactions with them are basically that—sacred stories, poetic attempts to describe humanity’s interactions with and understandings of the Gods. They are mythic, related to deeper truths than a mere literal reading involves.

As to whether there is an ultimate ground of being from which both men and the Gods sprang, I suppose it is possible, but if it exists, it is so far removed from us as to have no more relevance to our lives than the Horsehead Nebula has to an ant in my front yard. The more important thing is that we are here, the Gods are here.
 
Yes, that may be true. But it was never apart Of the Christian faith or the Old testement Abrahamic faiths to give human sacrifices to God.

I suppose not as a main part of the practice, just to have Him ask for one, then say, “no, just kidding, I only wanted to see if you would really do it.”

There are several other passages that are a bit problematic in that area.
 
As to whether there is an ultimate ground of being from which both men and the Gods sprang, I suppose it is possible, but if it exists, it is so far removed from us as to have no more relevance to our lives than the Horsehead Nebula has to an ant in my front yard. The more important thing is that we are here, the Gods are here.
I think that if Zeus is real, then he knows where he came from; considering that posibility, don’t you think that he has a responsibility to tell you?

And why do you think that the ultimate source of reality does not contact us? Why would you give worship to a lesser God like Zeus, if you can give worship to Ultimate reality?

What interest does Zeus himself have in humanity?
 
** I think that if Zeus is real, then he knows where he came from; considering that posibility, don’t you think that he has a responsibility to tell you?**

He comes from Cronos and Rhea, according to the tales. Are you sure you’ve read them?

And why do you think that the ultimate source of reality does not contact us?

Because I have no experience of any such.

** Why would you give worship to a lesser God like Zeus, if you can give worship to Ultimate reality?**

I do not know what an ultimate ground of being might be, or even it if it is. I did not say that it was a God. I give worship and piety to Zeus because He is worthy of such.

What interest does Zeus himself have in humanity?

You will have to ask Him. I do not fully know the minds or motivations of the Gods.

Come up with any examples of Zeus demanding human sacrifice for spiritual favors yet? Have you read the story of Zeus and Lycaon as recorded by Apollodorus?

theoi.com/Text/Apollodorus3.html

"[3.8.1] Let us now return to Pelasgus, who, Acusilaus says, was a son of Zeus and Niobe, as we have supposed,142 but Hesiod declares him to have been a son of the soil. He had a son Lycaon143 by Meliboea, daughter of Ocean or, as others say, by a nymph Cyllene; and Lycaon, reigning over the Arcadians, begat by many wives fifty sons, to wit: Melaeneus, Thesprotus, Helix, Nyctimus, Peucetius, Caucon, Mecisteus, Hopleus, Macareus, Macednus, Horus, Polichus, Acontes, Evaemon, Ancyor, Archebates, Carteron, Aegaeon, Pallas, Eumon, Canethus, Prothous, Linus, Coretho, Maenalus, Teleboas, Physius, Phassus, Phthius, Lycius, Halipherus, Genetor, Bucolion, Socleus, Phineus, Eumetes, Harpaleus, Portheus, Plato, Haemo, Cynaethus, Leo, Harpalycus, Heraeeus, Titanas, Mantineus, Clitor, Stymphalus, Orchomenus, . . . These exceeded all men in pride and impiety; and Zeus, desirous of putting their impiety to the proof, came to them in the likeness of a day-laborer. They offered him hospitality and having slaughtered a male child of the natives, they mixed his bowels with the sacrifices, and set them before him, at the instigation of the elder brother Maenalus.144 But Zeus in disgust upset the table at the place which is still called Trapezus, and blasted Lycaon and his sons by thunderbolts, all but Nyctimus, the youngest; for Earth was quick enough to lay hold of the right hand of Zeus and so appease his wrath.

[3.8.2] But when Nyctimus succeeded to the kingdom, there occurred the flood in the age of Deucalion; some said that it was occasioned by the impiety of Lycaon’s sons."

Note that the flood mentioned in the age of Deucalion was told as the almost complete destruction of humanity because Zeus found them to be too wicked and impious (sound familiar?).

theoi.com/Text/Apollodorus1.html

“[1.7.2] And Prometheus had a son Deucalion.105 He reigning in the regions about Phthia, married Pyrrha, the daughter of Epimetheus and Pandora, the first woman fashioned by the gods.106 And when Zeus would destroy the men of the Bronze Age, Deucalion by the advice of Prometheus constructed a chest,107 and having stored it with provisions he embarked in it with Pyrrha. But Zeus by pouring heavy rain from heaven flooded the greater part of Greece, so that all men were destroyed, except a few who fled to the high mountains in the neighborhood. It was then that the mountains in Thessaly parted, and that all the world outside the Isthmus and Peloponnese was overwhelmed. But Deucalion, floating in the chest over the sea for nine days and as many nights, drifted to Parnassus, and there, when the rain ceased, he landed and sacrificed to Zeus, the god of Escape.”

Doesn’t exactly sound like a God who the Greeks believed regularly demanded human sacrifices, does it?
 
A real god, it occurs to me, doesn’t let faith in him die out once he’s revealed himself - not temporarily, nor permanently. Why would he?
Why would that be a requirement? It implies that the “reality” of a God is dependent on the fact that He or She has active worshippers, which seems illogical to me. I continue to exist, whether or not a person or group of persons actively remembers me or does anything for me, why should not a God?
 
Why would that be a requirement? It implies that the “reality” f a God is dependent on the fact that He or She has active worshippers, which seems illogical to me. I continue to exist, whether or not a person or group of persons actively remembers me or does anything for me, why should not a God?
Then why do you worship Zeus if it is not a requirement; and why do you think he is worthy of worship? Did he create you?
 
Then why do you worship Zeus if it is not a requirement; and why do you think he is worthy of worship? Did he create you?
I’m sorry…are you actually asking why do I worship a God if my worship is not a requirement to prove His reality? Is that why you worship yours—because if you didn’t He would cease to exist?

No, Zeus did not create me. I worship to maintain and build relationship.
 
I’m sorry…are you actually asking why do I worship a God if my worship is not a requirement to prove His reality?
No. I find it hard to believe in any God unless i can see that such a God can be shown to logically exist. Secondly, in my eyes, no God is worthy of being God or worshiped if there is another God that is higher. God is the highest being. To me God is a word reserved for a being who is the source of all reality and being, and by being so, such a God is rightfully owed worship by its creation. I have a reasonable faith In one Eternal Supernatural Mind.

If Zeus did not create you, then i don’t understand why you would worship him. Why him and not a human being? And if its just about a relationship, then why would you want to have a relationship with Zeus in particulor? I’m not sure how Zeus can ligitimatly be called a God. Do you call him as such because he more powerful then you? Why do you think of him as a God?

It seems to me, Zeus has not asked you to worship him for any reason other then to play games and have servants. You don’t even no why you are serving him.
 
** No. I find it hard to believe in any God unless i can see that such a God can be shown to logically exist. Secondly, in my eyes, no God is worthy of being God or worshiped if there is another God that is higher. God is the highest being. To me God is a word reserved for a being who is the source of all reality and being, and by being so, such a God is rightfully owed worship by its creation. I have a reasonable faith In one Eternal Supernatural Mind.**

Ah, there’s the rub. I don’t find that your God, at least as described by His followers (omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent), can be logically shown to exist as He is described. I don’t believe that there is another God that is higher than my Gods, just different. I don’t find compelling evidence that your God is indeed the “source of all reality and being.” I am willing to accept that your God may well be a God, but I don’t believe there is such a thing as The God. That would be why I describe myself as a polytheist.🙂

As to what you reserve the word God for, your perogative, I suppose. It is not the unanimous opinion, at least according to the dictionary.

** And if its just about a relationship, then why would you want to have a relationship with Zeus in particulor?**

As you may have noticed in my previous posts, it actually isn’t “Zeus in particular.”

**I’m not sure how Zeus can ligitimatly be called a God. **

Really? Then you go against several thousand years of tradition.

It seems to me, Zeus has not asked you to worship him for any reason other then to play games and have servants.

And exactly what do you use as a basis for that judgement, especially if you don’t believe that He exists? What particular “games” or “service” did you mean?

** You don’t even no why you are serving him.**

Really? Thanks for letting me know.

BTW, I don’t recall using the terminology “serving.” It is not a servant-master relationship.
 
What makes Zeus a God worthy of praise?
It is not so much praise as acknowledgement and respect for a being who is greater than oneself, a more powerful older relative who might be inclined to look kindly on one. It is a very different relationship than one would have with an omnipotent, omniscient Creator God if one believed such existed, assuredly.

As I have said, I do not have a primary relationship with Zeus. Our spheres of interest simply do not intersect in all that many ways on a regular basis as they do with some of the other Gods. I do, as I said, pour libations or make offerings to Him in his role as Zeus Teleios (along with Hera Teleia) as guardians of the marriage rite, in gratitude for a successful year or unexpected prosperity as Zeus Ktesios (usually along with Hermes, as my husband’s Patron in terms of employment), as the generative force. We honor Him as Zeus Xenios (along with Athena Xenia) when we give or receive hospitality, a key concept in our religion.
 
It is not so much praise as acknowledgement and respect for a being who is greater than oneself, a more powerful older relative who might be inclined to look kindly on one. It is a very different relationship than one would have with an omnipotent, omniscient Creator God if one believed such existed, assuredly.
Do you mean that you give thanks to Zeus for any favors he might throw your way for no apparent reason?

You obviously think that there are no good reasons to believe in one ominiscient creator God, but i assure you, there is more good reasons to believe in the Christian God, and there are more logical proofs that such a God created the universe, then there is believing in Zeus. However, i cannot prove that a supernatural being, such as Zeus, does not exists, and even if he does, he is certainly not a God as far as i can tell. You have shown me no good reason that would lead me to think that he is a God; all you have said, is that he is a freind or a distant relitive that you believe helps you; how does that make him a God? We Christians believe that God is God, but for Good reason, and that reason being, because he is responsible for the creation of all existence, including Zeus, if in fact such a being does exist.
 
Do you mean that you give thanks to Zeus for any favors he might throw your way for no apparent reason?

If someone were to do you a favor out of no obligation to you, would you not consider it worthy of thanks? How much more so would a Being such a Zeus be worthy of thanks for such an action? If you believe that your God gives you something that you have not earned, are you not grateful? Do you not express your gratitude?

Anything that the Gods do, They do freely. I certainly would never have the hubris to claim that I was able to compel Them to such. Acts of piety certainly build up the guest/host relationship between humanity and the Gods, and the bonds of hospitality are sacred, but I cannot compel.

** You obviously think that there are no good reasons to believe in one ominiscient creator God, but i assure you, there is more good reasons to believe in the Christian God, and there are more logical proofs that such a God created the universe, then there is believing in Zeus. **

If you say so. I have not seen such yet, so I beg leave to doubt it until I do.

However, i cannot prove that a supernatural being, such as Zeus, does not exists,

True.

** and even if he does, he is certainly not a God as far as i can tell. You have shown me no good reason that would lead me to think that he is a God**

No, I can see you would not. Not if you require that the only possible meaning of the word “God” is to describe “a being who is the source of all reality and being.” That is not the way in which the majority of humanity has understood the term (or its equivalent in non-English languages) for the majority of human history.

** all you have said, is that he is a freind or a distant relitive that you believe helps you**

I would not dare the hubris to call Him a friend. The analogy of a relative is not perfect, but will do for the moment.

** how does that make him a God?**

dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=33577&dict=CALD
“god (SPIRIT)
noun [C]
1 a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshipped for doing so, or a representation of this spirit or being: the ancient Greek gods and goddesses”

or to look at the etymology of the word “God” itself, which literally means “that which is invoked.”
etymonline.com/index.php?search=god&searchmode=none
"god
O.E. god “supreme being, deity,” from P.Gmc. *guthan (cf. Du. god, Ger. Gott, O.N. guð, Goth. guþ), from PIE *ghut- “that which is invoked” (cf. Skt. huta- “invoked,” an epithet of Indra), from root *gheu(e)- “to call, invoke.” But some trace it to PIE *ghu-to- “poured,” from root *gheu- “to pour, pour a libation” (source of Gk. khein “to pour,” khoane “funnel” and khymos “juice;” also in the phrase khute gaia “poured earth,” referring to a burial mound). “Given the Greek facts, the Germanic form may have referred in the first instance to the spirit immanent in a burial mound” [Watkins]. Not related to good. Originally neut. in Gmc., the gender shifted to masc. after the coming of Christianity. O.E. god was probably closer in sense to L. numen. A better word to translate deus might have been P.Gmc. *ansuz, but this was only used of the highest deities in the Gmc. religion, and not of foreign gods, and it was never used of the Christian God. It survives in Eng. mainly in the personal names beginning in Os-. "

So by that reasoning, you were closer than you knew in your earlier question. Linguistically, what makes one a God is that someone invokes (or possibly pours libations to) Him or Her, ie, a God is something or someone which or who is worshipped.

**We Christians believe that God is God, but for Good reason, and that reason being, because he is responsible for the creation of all existence, including Zeus, if in fact such a being does exist.
**

Based on what evidence, precisely?
 
Why would that be a requirement? It implies that the “reality” of a God is dependent on the fact that He or She has active worshippers, which seems illogical to me. I continue to exist, whether or not a person or group of persons actively remembers me or does anything for me, why should not a God?
A real God is one who is instrumental, in a major or lesser way, in the workings of the cosmos - manifests himself openly in the very stars and elements or else the tiniest sub-atomic particles of our own bodies.

A real God’s activity and existence is plain and evident for all to see. People simply don’t forget a real God, ever, we depend upon a real God for one or more of the necessities of our existence!

If said God is real that is. If he’s a useless impotent fiction like Zeus then we forget him, sure, (more than that, deride him as myths and fables) - and we can safely do so, because the world and we go on just fine without Zeus and other fictional creatures.

But the true God - no, we don’t as a species forget that we owe Him, we remember Him and worship Him because we know He truly DOES give us life and all things.
 
Based on what evidence, precisely?
Look at some of my old posts and threads for now.
I would very much like to see some evidence for Zeus. I never seem to hear anything about him appearing to anyone or performing miracles nowadays. Theres absolutly no reason to think he exists. Of course i my self could easly have a relationship with any of the old Gods that i choose, but worship is not “owed” to them, for they have no connection to you other then the fact that they lord them selves over nature and your life. It was my thinking that the ancient people worshiped these beings because they protected them from some other creatures. I can’t remmeber the exact story exactly. But one can understand why one would worship a God who is a father, a Creator; the source of one’s being and existence. This Zeus doesn’t seem to care much if he doesn’t even bother keep up masses faith in him.
 
Look at some of my old posts and threads for now.
I would very much like to see some evidence for Zeus. I never seem to hear anything about him appearing to anyone or performing miracles nowadays. Theres absolutly no reason to think he exists. Of course i my self could easly have a relationship with any of the old Gods that i choose, but worship is not “owed” to them, for they have no connection to you other then the fact that they lord them selves over nature and your life. It was my thinking that the ancient people worshiped these beings because they protected them from some other creatures. I can’t remmeber the exact story exactly. But one can understand why one would worship a God who is a father, a Creator; the source of one’s being and existence. This Zeus doesn’t seem to care much if he doesn’t even bother keep up masses faith in him.
Absolutely worship is owed! Dependent children have duties to their parents and any created thing is obliged to fulfil the functions for which it was created. Combining the above two premises, we have a duty of worship to our creator.
 
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