How to take a stand on illegal immigration?

[michael_quinlan]

I see that the word you avoided the most in your response was love.

   You speak from a place of great pain.  the world you knew as a boy has changed so much.  What was valued then may even seem dashed for you.  But in essence everything is as it should be.

    You speak of justice and you even wave the flag most patriotically.  Justice and truth are God's domain. Once again, I return to where we are meant to draw our attention.  Ghettoes, pogroms, segregation, are evils created by men of fear.  Love conquers all.  It conquered the ghetto and it is creating the global community we are headed for.

     On a Catholic Forum, could you try to wave the Vatican Flag?  As a good Catholic I challenge you, if you aren't afraid, to extol the good qualities you have seen that God has bestowed upon his children, the Mexicans?

      I will pray that the Holy Spirit give you true courage to set down your hate, that you know so well, for the love of Mexicans that you fear so much.

 

[apromisemade]

I would have to side with Thomas Jefferson on this one.

“…shall we refuse the unhappy fugitive from distress that hospitality which the savages of the wilderness extended to our fathers arriving in this land? Shall oppressed humanity find no asylum on this globe?”

Also, I think it’s worth mentioning that, for all the poverty and corruption there, the Christian faith, particularly Catholicism, plays a greater role in the life of much of Latin America.
I did an intensive study program in Guatemala over this past Christmas. They had decorations and presents just like us, but one thing that really struck me was that when they were describing all the traditions and activities to me, they would always describe them as being in preperation for “el naciemento,” meaning “the birth”. I almost never heard the word “navidad.”

 

[michael_quinlan]

I do not fear justice. But what do I say to every American soldier I will meet who points and says, “Why didn’t you defend America?” How would you answer? The person who stays at home and reads the bible cannot escape responsibility.

Mexicans are creating other Mexicans in record numbers. What will they say when God asks:

"Why did you create life when you knew you couldn’t afford to?

Why did you place your responsibilities on others?"

“Because you took from a country you weren’t loyal to, the poor of that country had to suffer.”

How will they answer? In a world that is already overpopulated, what excuse is there to create more life?

 

[apromisemade]

Americans have sacrificed too much? Have we? With our plasma TVs, High def, iPods, SUVs, McMansions, A/C and heat … Wow … that is really a sacrifice! If you are an uncharitable person, that’s your deal, but that is not Catholic teaching. Christ say Love your neighbor, he did not mention your American neighbor first. That is why I love my Catholic Church, it’s truly Universal, not a local, one. It is Universal, as Our Lord is, and WE were created ALL, not only Americans, in His image and likeness.

Stop hating, start loving, as Jesus did.

A-men!

 

[michael_quinlan]

My ancestors also fought in the armed forces. Their parents and grandparents came to America to escape extreme poverty and starvation. To defend America is also to defend what America stands for. I am from NYC. We have a statue in the harbor that states send us your poor huddled masses yearning to be free… I believe whole-heartedly in that message.

Mexicans have children as an expression of the love between a man and woman. Read Genesis. It explains God’s purpose of creation.

Finally, if the US was really serious about preventing illegal immigration, there would be a Great Wall along our southern border, and a shoot to kill order on border patrol. We don’t have that so in a sense we create our own problem but choose to blame it on those desperate to come here.

 

[Ruthie]

Finally, if the US was really serious about preventing illegal immigration, there would be a Great Wall along our southern border, and a shoot to kill order on border patrol. We don’t have that so in a sense we create our own problem but choose to blame it on those desperate to come here.

Yes, and no, Michael.

It’s not a wall that is needed, but adequate numbers of people to patrol the border. Congress has, for years, been unwilling to vote the enormous amount of money it would take to staff the border well enough.

As for a shoot to kill policy, that would only be allowable if Mexico was our enemy. She is not. To shoot people for wanting to work here where wages and conditions are better would be unjust in the extreme. Besides, we have better technology available now. Rubber bullets, Tazers, etc.

I don’t know too many people who blame the illegal immigrants for wanting to work here. Blaming them individually for breaking our laws, yes.

But I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to see that the biggest part of the problem lies with the government of Mexico. At the very least, they could do what we’ve asked them to, and provide a system for “instant” background checks. One reason it takes so long to get a work visa is that it takes months, if not years, to find out if someone from Mexico has a criminal record.

We could do a lot more on our side, too, with increased staffing (there’s that $$ problem again) and different kinds of work visas.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could advertise in Mexico, saying, “Why pay a coyote and risk your life to get to America and work? Go to the American Consul, and get a work visa for free, and enter America legally!” I think that should be our goal.

Praying for Mexico and Mexicans,

Ruthie

 

[Bullfighter]

My ancestors also fought in the armed forces. Their parents and grandparents came to America to escape extreme poverty and starvation. To defend America is also to defend what America stands for. I am from NYC. We have a statue in the harbor that states send us your poor huddled masses yearning to be free… I believe whole-heartedly in that message.

Mexicans have children as an expression of the love between a man and woman. Read Genesis. It explains God’s purpose of creation.

Finally, if the US was really serious about preventing illegal immigration, there would be a Great Wall along our southern border, and a shoot to kill order on border patrol. We don’t have that so in a sense we create our own problem but choose to blame it on those desperate to come here.

The Statue of Liberty faces out to the Atlantic Ocean and on the other side of the Atlantic is France, the country who gave the Statue of Liberty as a gift. Should we give it back? They’re having a problem with immigrants too. If you recall, Muslims were setting fires in various cities to show how frustrated they were at the lack of employment opportunities. Can’t wait for that to happen here!

If you remember, “be fruitful and multiply” was said when the world was practically empty. Mexicans, like any people, have children for a variety of reason. There are responsible Mexicans who send their children to Catholic schools. I know because I have spoken to them. One young woman told me that they had to make many sacrifices to pay for that education. But her husband put it best when he said, “I’d rather drive a junkie car than have junkie kids!”

The seriousness that the US feels about keeping its borders safe can’t be solved with a fence as we already know that Mexicans do not respect our country’s borders. However, steps can be taken to make Mexico pay a huge price for that lack of respect. First, the US must hold responsible the countries where these illegals come from. You may not be able to physically hold back illegal trespassers, but you could fine the countries where they come from. I figure one million dollars each will get the attention of any country. It not an unreasonable figure either.

Another step is to show at the United Nations all the other countries potential immigration candidates are being cut out by the greatest offender, Mexico and other Latin American countries and that would encourage them to place sanctions on the offending countries.

Other steps like making it extremely difficult to send money across the border and even cut communication with those offending countries.

You don’t need to resort to violence to really make these countries start respecting the United States again. Cut off their supply of money and they’ll start listening.

It’s not only the illegal immigrant but financial systems themselves have been caught in Mexico doing some very illegal things, but that is going beyond the scope of this post which is illegal immigration.

All it takes is a determined US government and population to reverse this very threatening situation.

A few years ago on a NBC Saturday morning news show, a young white graduate student wrote a book about immigration and made the statement that virtually all Americans are in favor of giving the illegal immigrant a path to US citizenship.

The host of the show, Campbell Brown, a savy newswoman, stopped her and said,“Wait a minute. We do these very accurate news polls all the time, and I have never seen one that ever showed what you are claiming. The American public has always expressed their desire to have those illegally in this country removed. Sometimes as much as 100% of those polled will express that opinion.”

The girl didn’t know what to say as she was obvious caught fabricating the information in the book and on the show. Campbell Brown then quickly ended the interview.

Thank God for people in the media who don’t just take somebody at their word and always investigate to find the truth.

You know, the TRUTH that will set you free!

 

[michael_quinlan]

Dear Mr. Bullfighter,

                           I'm so glad you've finally calmed down.  Some of your ideas to try and curb illegal immigration even sound worthy of attention.  Hopefully our gov't will start one of these painful processes to curb extreme immigration.
                            I especially appreciate the kind comment you made about the Mexican mother and her children.  Even the comment made by the father is high praise from you.  I see you in a totally different light.
                             Concerning the Statue of Liberty, I don't think France would want it back.  Though it was refurbished in the 1980's I believe it still isn't up to snuff as a gift for a nation that remembered our 100th birthday. Also, I think NJ & NY are still quarreling over who actually owns Liberty Island.
                            Now we need to change you ideas about Muslims.  Just because some Muslims start fires to show civil unrest, doesn't mean all Muslims do.  The more town meetings we hold where we allow the local populace to express themselves the less destruction of property and social unrest we will have.

                      In Christ,

                                   MQ

 

[Bullfighter]

Yes, and no, Michael.

It’s not a wall that is needed, but adequate numbers of people to patrol the border. Congress has, for years, been unwilling to vote the enormous amount of money it would take to staff the border well enough.

As for a shoot to kill policy, that would only be allowable if Mexico was our enemy. She is not. To shoot people for wanting to work here where wages and conditions are better would be unjust in the extreme. Besides, we have better technology available now. Rubber bullets, Tazers, etc.

I don’t know too many people who blame the illegal immigrants for wanting to work here. Blaming them individually for breaking our laws, yes.

But I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to see that the biggest part of the problem lies with the government of Mexico. At the very least, they could do what we’ve asked them to, and provide a system for “instant” background checks. One reason it takes so long to get a work visa is that it takes months, if not years, to find out if someone from Mexico has a criminal record.

We could do a lot more on our side, too, with increased staffing (there’s that $$ problem again) and different kinds of work visas.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could advertise in Mexico, saying, “Why pay a coyote and risk your life to get to America and work? Go to the American Consul, and get a work visa for free, and enter America legally!” I think that should be our goal.

Praying for Mexico and Mexicans,

Ruthie

You have some possible solutions to the problem, but I have to tell you that the ID cards have major problems. One being the Mexican has an absolute phobia about being fingerprinted as people who defend them claim “It makes them feel like criminals!”

An incident occurred during the summer in Chicago when a group of ICE agents raided a photography studio in a mall in a Hispanic neighborhood.

It turned out that the photographer was making photos that were being used on fake IDs. To top it off, the son of the photographer was a well known Hispanic politician.

To draw attention away from his father, the politician made a big deal about how the agents scared people in the neighborhood by running around with machine guns.

A tactic used in those neighborhoods is to immediately contact as many people as they can and have them fill the streets while a raid is going on.

An absolute must is for parents to have their little children on their arms screaming for the news cameras when they finally show up. If the child is sleeping, the parent pinches the child’s legs to get them to wail.

It’s all an act to make the agents look like Nazis instead of the dedicated law enforcement officers they are. Then the “outraged” Hispanic politicians use the event to try to shame people into being easy on illegal aliens.

They’ve learned that wars can be won on the streets of the US by trying to get sympathy from the uninformed public. But when the uninformed public finally gets the bill for these freeloaders you’ll have a failing economy…Like we have now!

 

[Bullfighter]

Dear Mr. Bullfighter,

I’m so glad you’ve finally calmed down. Some of your ideas to try and curb illegal immigration even sound worthy of attention. Hopefully our gov’t will start one of these painful processes to curb extreme immigration.
I especially appreciate the kind comment you made about the Mexican mother and her children. Even the comment made by the father is high praise from you. I see you in a totally different light.
Concerning the Statue of Liberty, I don’t think France would want it back. Though it was refurbished in the 1980’s I believe it still isn’t up to snuff as a gift for a nation that remembered our 100th birthday. Also, I think NJ & NY are still quarreling over who actually owns Liberty Island.
Now we need to change you ideas about Muslims. Just because some Muslims start fires to show civil unrest, doesn’t mean all Muslims do. The more town meetings we hold where we allow the local populace to express themselves the less destruction of property and social unrest we will have.

In Christ,

MQ

Your jumping to conclusions about me, AGAIN!

In never expressed an opinion about the Muslims. I only related the facts as they happened. I actually have a lot of respect for people like Muslims who are dedicated to their religion the way some people just claim to be.

 

[Carjack1]

The Statue of Liberty faces out to the Atlantic Ocean and on the other side of the Atlantic is France, the country who gave the Statue of Liberty as a gift. Should we give it back? They’re having a problem with immigrants too. If you recall, Muslims were setting fires in various cities to show how frustrated they were at the lack of employment opportunities. Can’t wait for that to happen here!This is not patriotic. This is un-American as you claim to be

If you remember, “be fruitful and multiply” was said when the world was practically empty.The Lord did not say because the world is empty. He said be fruitful and multiply Mexicans, like any people, have children for a variety of reasonwhich quite frankly are none of your business. As a Catholic, you should be rejoicing that they are having babies in record numbers and not aborting them. There are responsible Mexicans who send their children to Catholic schools. I know because I have spoken to them. One young woman told me that they had to make many sacrifices to pay for that education. But her husband put it best when he said, "I’d rather drive a junkie car than have junkie kids!"So you are saying that if Mexicans don’t go to Catholic school, they will be junkies mmmm, interesting?

The seriousness that the US feels about keeping its borders safe can’t be solved with a fence as we already know that Mexicans do not respect our country’s borders. However, steps can be taken to make Mexico pay a huge price for that lack of respect. First, the US must hold responsible the countries where these illegals come from. You may not be able to physically hold back illegal trespassers, but you could fine the countries where they come from.So, if Americans who visit other countries and the American citizen breaks the law, should America be fined? This suggestion is crazy at best I figure one million dollars each will get the attention of any country. It not an unreasonable figure either.

Another step is to show at the United Nations all the other countries potential immigration candidates are being cut out by the greatest offender, Mexico and other Latin American countries and that would encourage them to place sanctions on the offending countries.So you want the UN to target Latin American countries?

Other steps like making it extremely difficult to send money across the border and even cut communication with those offending countries.So you want the US to be a dictator and tell their citizens where their money can go and who they can communicate with?

You don’t need to resort to violence to really make these countries start respecting the United States again.First you suggest violence and then you don’t. Make up your mind. Cut off their supply of money and they’ll start listening.

It’s not only the illegal immigrant but financial systems themselves have been caught in Mexico doing some very illegal things, but that is going beyond the scope of this post which is illegal immigrationwhich is not synonymous with Mexicans.

All it takes is a determined US government and population to reverse this very threatening situation.

A few years ago on a NBC Saturday morning news show, a young white graduate student wrote a book about immigration and made the statement that virtually all Americans are in favor of giving the illegal immigrant a path to US citizenship.

The host of the show, Campbell Brown, a savy newswoman, stopped her and said,“Wait a minute. We do these very accurate news polls all the time, and I have never seen one that ever showed what you are claiming. The American public has always expressed their desire to have those illegally in this country removed. Sometimes as much as 100% of those polled will express that opinion.”

The girl didn’t know what to say as she was obvious caught fabricating the information in the book and on the show. Campbell Brown then quickly ended the interview.

Thank God for people in the media who don’t just take somebody at their word and always investigate to find the truth.

You know, the TRUTH that will set you free!

Your hatred for Mexicans/Hispanics is quite obvious and is in conflict with being a Catholic. When you realize that, the truth will SET YOU FREE!!

 

[Bullfighter]

I would have to side with Thomas Jefferson on this one.

“…shall we refuse the unhappy fugitive from distress that hospitality which the savages of the wilderness extended to our fathers arriving in this land? Shall oppressed humanity find no asylum on this globe?”

Also, I think it’s worth mentioning that, for all the poverty and corruption there, the Christian faith, particularly Catholicism, plays a greater role in the life of much of Latin America.
I did an intensive study program in Guatemala over this past Christmas. They had decorations and presents just like us, but one thing that really struck me was that when they were describing all the traditions and activities to me, they would always describe them as being in preperation for “el naciemento,” meaning “the birth”. I almost never heard the word “navidad.”

Wasn’t Thomas Jefferson also a slave owner?

 

[pnewton]

Wasn’t Thomas Jefferson also a slave owner?

Yes. What is the connection with the topic? Is this like the Nazi thing?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, LeroyCRHP,

Enjoyed reading your post.

But, there is a snag - now, I do not know what State you are in… but, I live in Houston Texas … and there is (and has been) a problem with funding higher education in Texas.

…I’m not saying college is for everyone, or that we could have everyone college educated, but the justification for education is financially easy. I think state college should be free if you can qualify.

About 4 years ago, the State of Texas reduced the amount it contributes to higher education and told the Community Colleges and Universities that they could raise tuition to cover the short-fall. You gessed it… they did what they were told - and tuition rose almost 100% from where they were 4 years ago.!!

Now, the voters in the State are not foolish - they know how to put a bridle on this run-away cost of higher education…and, they have succeeded in getting the attention of the same Legislature that turned them lose - because Austin could no longer fund this program as it needed to be funded.

In all honesty, this problem can NOT be laid totally at the feet of illegal immigrants (and, that is mainly because of various requirements that keep many illegal immigrants out of college - as opposed to them attending elementary and secondary education.)

I, like you, believe that the future lies in educating as many people as possible - there is no way we are getting out of this mess with a nation filled with people who are weak in reading, math and science.

So, while I think “Bullfighter” has some valid points, I also think he is fixating on them to the exclusion of other realities. I also think that your numbers/references may be out of date with today’s realities. (For example: Texas does not have a State Income Tax - all money comes from property and sales tax. There is a real bust in the housing market - people lost their homes to foreclosures and to three major hurricanes in three years. Entire tax base areas were wiped out - and the schools that counted on this money to educate children [legal and other-wise] are having to go to Austin to get the funding they need. It is not pretty here - and, I am confident that it is not pretty in every other state.)

I do not have an answer that is very satisfying - probably to anyone! In my view, to do anything illegally means you are outside of the law. Any claims need to address Justice first and then Mercy. People coming over as economic or political immigrants - and following the immigration laws are not being treated justly by those who are evading these laws. Our federal government is not treating anyone justly by ignoring the laws that are already on the books and then tying the hands of local law enforcement in trying to enforce these same laws claiming they lack jurisdiction! Justice is being abused by many - and, then there are the cases that make the news - hard working illegals who are arrested for working here illegally (especially in areas where US employers are having a hard time in finding US employees!!)

Believe me, I wish I knew the answer(s) to resolve this matter. I do believe that dialogue is a good way to address these issues - and the best ideas have a chance of getting better with the (name removed by moderator)ut from many.

God bless.

 

[pnewton]

About 4 years ago, the State of Texas reduced the amount it contributes to higher education and told the Community Colleges and Universities that they could raise tuition to cover the short-fall. You gessed it… they did what they were told - and tuition rose almost 100% from where they were 4 years ago.!!

Interestingly enough, this is one area in which illegal aliens fund a program few participate in. State funding comes from sales tax. Everyone who buys anything in the state contributes. Likewise, local funding also includes property tax. Everyone who lives in the area contributes.

 

[Bullfighter]

Yes. What is the connection with the topic? Is this like the Nazi thing?

If you quote a famous person, he is also to be under scrutiny.

Like Abe Lincoln freed the African slaves but he always felt that they were an inferior race.

Did Jefferson father a baby with one of his slaves??

Are you going to say that’s a Nazi thing too.

 

[Bullfighter]

Hi, LeroyCRHP,

Enjoyed reading your post.

But, there is a snag - now, I do not know what State you are in… but, I live in Houston Texas … and there is (and has been) a problem with funding higher education in Texas.

About 4 years ago, the State of Texas reduced the amount it contributes to higher education and told the Community Colleges and Universities that they could raise tuition to cover the short-fall. You gessed it… they did what they were told - and tuition rose almost 100% from where they were 4 years ago.!!

Now, the voters in the State are not foolish - they know how to put a bridle on this run-away cost of higher education…and, they have succeeded in getting the attention of the same Legislature that turned them lose - because Austin could no longer fund this program as it needed to be funded.

In all honesty, this problem can NOT be laid totally at the feet of illegal immigrants (and, that is mainly because of various requirements that keep many illegal immigrants out of college - as opposed to them attending elementary and secondary education.)

I, like you, believe that the future lies in educating as many people as possible - there is no way we are getting out of this mess with a nation filled with people who are weak in reading, math and science.

So, while I think “Bullfighter” has some valid points, I also think he is fixating on them to the exclusion of other realities. I also think that your numbers/references may be out of date with today’s realities. (For example: Texas does not have a State Income Tax - all money comes from property and sales tax. There is a real bust in the housing market - people lost their homes to foreclosures and to three major hurricanes in three years. Entire tax base areas were wiped out - and the schools that counted on this money to educate children [legal and other-wise] are having to go to Austin to get the funding they need. It is not pretty here - and, I am confident that it is not pretty in every other state.)

I do not have an answer that is very satisfying - probably to anyone! In my view, to do anything illegally means you are outside of the law. Any claims need to address Justice first and then Mercy. People coming over as economic or political immigrants - and following the immigration laws are not being treated justly by those who are evading these laws. Our federal government is not treating anyone justly by ignoring the laws that are already on the books and then tying the hands of local law enforcement in trying to enforce these same laws claiming they lack jurisdiction! Justice is being abused by many - and, then there are the cases that make the news - hard working illegals who are arrested for working here illegally (especially in areas where US employers are having a hard time in finding US employees!!)

Believe me, I wish I knew the answer(s) to resolve this matter. I do believe that dialogue is a good way to address these issues - and the best ideas have a chance of getting better with the (name removed by moderator)ut from many.

God bless.

Americans won’t get a chance at those jobs because they will never hear of them. The invaders have their own network of communication. They know precisely what town to go to, where they will be able to rent a matress( an attic with 10-12 people living there being charge a fraction of what a room would cost), and many other secrets that the average American does not have a clue about.

They use that minority status to get loans that the average American is cut out of. Those same loans will be used to set up a business designed to fail and they keep all the money. They can set up organizations that are run almost exclusively for them and no one will can them racists. They’ll buy a home, with that minority status to get a loan, they’ll keep it a year or two then abandon it and move to another neighborhood to start it all over again.

I live in the neighborhood where they pull this stuff so believe me, I know what they do. I’m not just pulling this stuff off the internet.

 

[tqualey]

Hi Bullfighter,

Nice to hear from you.

Americans won’t get a chance at those jobs because they will never hear of them. The invaders have their own network of communication. They know precisely what town to go to, where they will be able to rent a matress( an attic with 10-12 people living there being charge a fraction of what a room would cost), and many other secrets that the average American does not have a clue about.

This is a rather blanket statement. And while I am sure that you have some anecdotal evidence (your neighborhood that you mentioned) your statement really does go beyond local neighborhod boundaries.

I hate to engage in generalizations. Do you have any creditable references to back these statements? Having some would be helpful to me…and, maybe others, too.

God bless

 

[pnewton]

If you quote a famous person, he is also to be under scrutiny.

Ah! An ad hominem on the man rather than address the statement. Yes, Jefferson, Lincoln and everyone else in history had many issues and character flaws. Did you have something to say of value in response to Jefferson’s statement on immigrants?

Is it right that the oppressed people have no asylum on this earth?

 

[Bullfighter]

But I have more sympathy for many illegal aliens than poor Americans. Many poor Americans had opportunities that they did not take (obviously, some are just unfortunate

).

Are you an American or do you just hate Americans? I saw a news show on a poor young American who lived in a rural area. His town was overrun by the “saintly” illegals so his chances of making a decent living in the town his family lived in for generation was destroyed.

He, like many others in these areas, decided to join the Army because they really don’t have much choice in employment. He served his country in Iraq and had his legs blown off by a road side bomb.

Well, I guess he won’t be able to do the work that the “brave” illegal can do. And thanks to people that live in a country made safe by soldiers, and being destroyed by illegals, I guess he has people like you to thank for those chances he never took, because he never got them.