How to take a stand on illegal immigration?

[Bullfighter]

Hi Bullfighter,

Nice to hear from you.

This is a rather blanket statement. And while I am sure that you have some anecdotal evidence (your neighborhood that you mentioned) your statement really does go beyond local neighborhod boundaries.

I hate to engage in generalizations. Do you have any creditable references to back these statements? Having some would be helpful to me…and, maybe others, too.

God bless

I can show you hundreds of pictures of what the “delicate genius” Mexican children have done to my house and property over the years. I can show you how they have used a picture on the Virgin Mary that I put on my door as target practice. I could take you through my neighborhood and show you all the improvement the town has made only to have gangs control the town.

I can send you to the website of the Illinois Board of Education and if your willing to do the research and the math, you will see that 74.5% of state and federal funds run these schools and pay for the children of illegals for a total of over a quarter of a BILLION dollars while poor Americans are freezing on the streets of Chicago.

I could take you to the United Nations website and you could do the same research I did on populations and human development. That the average Mexican is “fat and happy” while the real poor are in Africa. But, of course, most people don’t want to look at that because it reminds them of their duty to THIS country and their people first.

People who live in safe middle class America follow one motto: “Ignorance is bliss”.

 

[Bullfighter]

Better than,“God bless America for some.”

"Forgive your enemy! But first, get even!
…James Cagney, Blood on the Sun

 

[Bullfighter]

Ah! An ad hominem on the man rather than address the statement. Yes, Jefferson, Lincoln and everyone else in history had many issues and character flaws. Did you have something to say of value in response to Jefferson’s statement on immigrants?

Is it right that the oppressed people have no asylum on this earth?

I have nothing good to say about a people who took American charity for decades, then invade America to show their gratitude. They overpopulated their own countries and now they want Americans to step aside, ignore the American poor, and keep feeding the monster called “immigration”.

And people who use Jefferson quotes and try to apply them to today’s problems deal with half truths. How many people were in the 13 colonies when he made that remark. You could have sent a 100 times the amount of people and never get close to filling the area covered by today’s population.

Try again. Why not use some obscure bible quote. That always gets them.

 

[Carjack1]

I have nothing good to say about a people who took American charity for decades, then invade America to show their gratitude. They overpopulated their own countries and now they want Americans to step aside, ignore the American poor, and keep feeding the monster called “immigration”.This man is not Catholic, this is not a Catholic mentality. Did you know hatred can be a monster?

And people who use Jefferson quotes and try to apply them to today’s problems deal with half truths. How many people were in the 13 colonies when he made that remark. You could have sent a 100 times the amount of people and never get close to filling the area covered by today’s population. Please use the term “invaders” correctly.

Try again. Why not use some obscure bible quote. That always gets them.

 

[pnewton]

Try again. Why not use some obscure bible quote.

Are you familiar with the book of Matthew and the person Jesus who said:

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.”

Do you not understand that we can go to hell based on our treatment of those most in need? Patriotic fervor and strong nationalism will not avail us in the final judgement.

Please, I implore no one to listen to the hatred of those, who perhaps with reason, turn their back on their neighbors. Listen instead to the words of the Savior who himself was a stranger in a strange land. I know this is a hard teaching for many, but it was on the last things that Jesus left us with before he went home to His Father. Regardless of your position on some immigration issues, remember that we have the moral obligation to help those most in need, to welcome the stranger and to open our hearts to be minister of Christ on Earth.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Bullfighter,

The purpose of moving beyond the neighborhood is to look for the big picture, But you want to tell me about the Illinois neighborhood in which you live. OK

I can show you hundreds of pictures of what the “delicate genius” Mexican children have done to my house and property over the years. I can show you how they have used a picture on the Virgin Mary that I put on my door as target practice. I could take you through my neighborhood and show you all the improvement the town has made only to have gangs control the town. .

No one wants their neighborhood or their town over-run with gangsters and thugs - no matter where their birthplace was. Honest people have a right to safety in their own community - and, you, Bullfighter, have every right to expect this. No argument. But, as I understand the remarks you have made, for some reason, you and your peace loving neighbors have not gotten the safety you deserve. Every family of every nationality that wants peace but is terroirized by gangs - is at serious risk. Whether domestic or imported gangs - violence is the enemy of the family.

So, let me ask you honestly, what do you think can be done - at least initially - in your nieghborhood to make your neighborhood safe? We could brain-storm some ideas on what can be done. Just let your mind go and come up with as many solutions as you can: legal, illegal, moral, immoral, just, unjust, you name it by just writing it down. The key to brain storming is that you do not judge the idea at this time (judgment will come later) but just get as many ideas as you can on paper. Then a discussion can be had by the group on which are workable and which aren’t. Bitterness has no place in an area where you are having problems and need a solution.

Let me start off with a few … and then you carry on for there. OK?

BRAIN STORMING IDEAS FOR A SAFER NEIGHBORHOOD:

1- Get to know at least three neighbors that live next to you.
2- Discuss areas of common concern with your neighbors
3- Make a list of these concerns and then have them get to know thier neighbors to repeat this process.
4- Go to the following web site to learn what others have done: charityguide.org/volunteer/fifteen/neighborhood-watch.htm?gclid=CMOap-3S65cCFQJNagodBUzFDg
5- Contact local law enforcement and get them to come over and speak to your group of neighbors.

• Now that is five ideas and a web site - you come up with at least 20 more (after all, it is your neighborhood - you should know it better then I do! ) and let’s see what we can do as a team. If implementation of positive ideas makes your neighborhood safer - chances are others will be interested in making their neighborhood safer, too. Admittedly, this is not directly related to illegal immigration - but, I am confident that this topic will surface at these meetings - and new ideas will be developed.

God bless

God bless

 

[FK04US]

Please, I implore no one to listen to the hatred of those, who perhaps with reason, turn their back on their neighbors. Listen instead to the words of the Savior who himself was a stranger in a strange land. I know this is a hard teaching for many, but it was on the last things that Jesus left us with before he went home to His Father. Regardless of your position on some immigration issues, remember that we have the moral obligation to help those most in need, to welcome the stranger and to open our hearts to be minister of Christ on Earth.

Amen to that! Jesus does not see colors, nationalities or immigration status. He sees us all as human beings, all broken and with sins, and He loves us all no matter what. It’s our decision to follow Jesus or someone like Bullfighter.

 

[Bullfighter]

Are you familiar with the book of Matthew and the person Jesus who said:

Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.”

Do you not understand that we can go to hell based on our treatment of those most in need? Patriotic fervor and strong nationalism will not avail us in the final judgement.

Please, I implore no one to listen to the hatred of those, who perhaps with reason, turn their back on their neighbors. Listen instead to the words of the Savior who himself was a stranger in a strange land. I know this is a hard teaching for many, but it was on the last things that Jesus left us with before he went home to His Father. Regardless of your position on some immigration issues, remember that we have the moral obligation to help those most in need, to welcome the stranger and to open our hearts to be minister of Christ on Earth.

I agree. My job is to help the poor American get his fair share of food, clothing, healthcare, employment, etc. before it is stolen by those who would invade my country.

I do not consider the illegal immigrant my neighbor as he is trying to take from people who ARE my neighbor. That is in perfect teaching of the Catholic Church. I have every right to defend my neighbor from attack and I have a moral duty to defend my country.

All American soldiers during WW2 were consider “Fighting for God and Country in the Armed Forces of the USA” . I just read that off of a medal that some Catholic soldiers had taped to their “dogtags”. I would say that anyone giving aid and comfort to the enemies of the people of the United States of America are the ones who have to worry about where they will spend eternity.

Ecclesiastes
Chapter 3

1
There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every affair under the heavens.
2
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to uproot the plant.
3
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to tear down, and a time to build.
4
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance.
5
A time to scatter stones, and a time to gather them; a time to embrace, and a time to be far from embraces.
6
A time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away.
7
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to be silent, and a time to speak.
8
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

 

[pnewton]

I do not consider the illegal immigrant my neighbor as he is trying to take from people who ARE my neighbor.

Jesus answered this question, too. When he was asked, “Who is my neighbor?” he used as an example a Samaritan, not a Jew to show that the concept of neighbor cuts across nationality. This was as offensive to the Jewish mind as the idea of “Mexican” neighbors are offensive to some Americans.

 

[LeroyCRHP]

Hello tqualey;

This thread is still going?

I’m in Indiana but grew up in TN and went to college in TN. I grew up very poor, received Pell grants and worked on research projects (plus mow yards, carry bales of hay or anything else that would pay!) at college to make it through TTU to receive my BSEE, electical engineer

I have a 20 year old in college that and 17 that is getting ready for college. The cost of college is getting rediculous. ** Look at the endowments of the colleges, they have been growing beyond belief while the colleges continue to raise the overall cost to go there by 10-15% per year.** The Indiana state universities just implemented a program that basically pays ~1/2 of yearly expense if you have good high school grades and SAT scores.

We as a country are getting lazy when <70% graduate from high school and then only around 41% go to college. This laziness continues to show up that there are jobs out there that people do not want to do. I can look on www.indeed.com and find anyone a several jobs to apply to in minutes. I search for friends, people at my church and others that need help finding a job.

YBIC
Leroy

Hi, LeroyCRHP,

Enjoyed reading your post.

But, there is a snag - now, I do not know what State you are in… but, I live in Houston Texas … and there is (and has been) a problem with funding higher education in Texas.

About 4 years ago, the State of Texas reduced the amount it contributes to higher education and told the Community Colleges and Universities that they could raise tuition to cover the short-fall. You gessed it… they did what they were told - and tuition rose almost 100% from where they were 4 years ago.!!

Now, the voters in the State are not foolish - they know how to put a bridle on this run-away cost of higher education…and, they have succeeded in getting the attention of the same Legislature that turned them lose - because Austin could no longer fund this program as it needed to be funded.

Believe me, I wish I knew the answer(s) to resolve this matter. I do believe that dialogue is a good way to address these issues - and the best ideas have a chance of getting better with the (name removed by moderator)ut from many.

God bless.

 

[FickleFreckled]

My father was the only one of his siblings born in the U.S. My cousins are first generation American; I’m 2nd. I was married to an immigrant who became a citizen. Immigrants helped make this country great. They lived in ghettos, many to an apartment, until they established themselves; they also were considered low-lifes and vermin by “real” Americans. Thank God for the immigration that allowed me to grow up with the opportunities I had.

 

[tqualey]

Hi LeroyCRHP,

I used to marvel at the amount of math you EEs took - being not that good in math I was convinced if i entered that field I would probably electrify myself!

Seriously, we will all need to find a way to fund a college education for the next generation(err… that would be your kids’s and my up-coming grand-kid’s education). These folks are going to be in debt until at least a portion of hell gets below 32F!!

Best wishes on getting them through - this is where the future lies but no one (at least in government) is making it easy for them -and you know it is government who is going to be looking to them to come up with all of hte new technologies.

God bless,

 

[Bullfighter]

My father was the only one of his siblings born in the U.S. My cousins are first generation American; I’m 2nd. I was married to an immigrant who became a citizen. Immigrants helped make this country great. They lived in ghettos, many to an apartment, until they established themselves; they also were considered low-lifes and vermin by “real” Americans. Thank God for the immigration that allowed me to grow up with the opportunities I had.

Opportunities are really a matter of chance.

Napoleon attributted most of his success to luck, or fate.

A person who lives a low income life may live a better life than his high income neighbor. That is a matter of character.

 

[Carjack1]

I am so astonished at the hatred coming from Bullfighter. He is taking Nationalism and combining it with Christianity. I believe that when we are kicking illegal immigrants out, that they should treated humanely. This is a complicated issue and to imply that only Hispanics are responsible is ridiculous. Again, I urge you to use the word “invaders” appropriately.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Jesus answered this question, too. When he was asked, “Who is my neighbor?” he used as an example a Samaritan, not a Jew to show that the concept of neighbor cuts across nationality. This was as offensive to the Jewish mind as the idea of “Mexican” neighbors are offensive to some Americans.

I’ve already quoted the Good Samaritan passages to Bullfighter. He didn’t like it, posted some more nastiness and pondered what else I would come up with from “my” Bible.

 

[Bullfighter]

I’ve already quoted the Good Samaritan passages to Bullfighter. He didn’t like it, posted some more nastiness and pondered what else I would come up with from “my” Bible.

I want you to try and use the bible as evidence in a court of law.

I want you to tell a veteran soldier that he must come second to an immigrant when looking for employment, trying to get healthcare, food, shelter, etc.

Wasn’t it just a few years ago that they showed the deplorable conditions of our veterans hospitals while illegal aliens got some of the best heathcare by using fake IDs and making Americans wait in long lines while they were treated at county hospitals.

Now those hospitals have fired doctors and cut treatment to real Americans because some politicians didn’t want to upset the “immigrant” by asking to confirm their identities.

Feed Americans First!

 

[RobertLGarrett]

I want you to try and use the bible as evidence in a court of law.

I wasn’t making a legalistic appeal to you. I quoted the Bible because of your supposed religious beliefs. If the Bible, the Catechism and the Magisterium don’t sway you, then I guess you should treat your fellow man any way you think is best.

 

[Carjack1]

I want you to try and use the bible as evidence in a court of law.The laws of men pale in comparison to God’s glory. As a Catholic, you are aware of that, right?

I want you to tell a veteran soldier that he must come second to an immigrant when looking for employment, trying to get healthcare, food, shelter, etc.Do you have any links that support this?

Wasn’t it just a few years ago that they showed the deplorable conditions of our veterans hospitals while illegal aliens got some of the best heathcare by using fake IDs and making Americans wait in long lines while they were treated at county hospitals.I don’t think that the hospitals said “Excuse me, since you are not an illegal alien get to the back of the line, please”

Now those hospitals have fired doctors and cut treatment to real Americans because some politicians didn’t want to upset the “immigrant” by asking to confirm their identities.Asking for one’s identity doesn’t change how a patient is treated for an illness. Do illegal immigrants get different medications than Americans do? Wow, the claims that you are making are confusing me

Feed Americans First!

I wasn’t aware that the USA was not eating. Please provide a link that confirms your claim.

 

[Bullfighter]

I wasn’t making a legalistic appeal to you. I quoted the Bible because of your supposed religious beliefs. If the Bible, the Catechism and the Magisterium don’t sway you, then I guess you should treat your fellow man any way you think is best.

Yes. I am a Catholic, but so were tens of thousands of soldiers who fought for this country. Where does it say the Catholic must take the food out of the mouths of his fellow American to feed the foreigner?

What ever happened to all the aid we gave these countries for generations?

When will those foreign Catholics start reading the rule book. To say you want a better life is not enough to become a US citizen. Every person in the world wants a better life. What makes these particular people so special.

During the Civil War, a soldier was brought before his commanding officer General Robert E. Lee for an infraction of the rules.

The General noticed that the soldier was trembling with fear.

“Don’t worry soldier,” General Lee said to him. “You’ll get justice here!”

The soldier replied to the General “That’s what I’m afraid of!”

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Yes. I am a Catholic, but so were tens of thousands of soldiers who fought for this country. Where does it say the Catholic must take the food out of the mouths of his fellow American to feed the foreigner?

Who is proposing that? If a person comes to our Church in need, they should be assisted, regardless of their race or nationality.

Bullfighter:

What ever happened to all the aid we gave these countries for generations?

I don’t know…but that is a separate issue.

Bullfighter:

When will those foreign Catholics start reading the rule book. To say you want a better life is not enough to become a US citizen. Every person in the world wants a better life. What makes these particular people so special.

I’m in favor of reforming our immigration situation through improving the border enforcement, employer enforcement and even deportation. The problem is that we let all of those deteriorate to the point where we have a situation where mass deportation is impractical, expensive and in many cases inhumane. This is why I was also in favor of the Kennedy-McCain bill when it came to the question of what to do with the ~12 Million illegal aliens that are here.