How to take a stand on illegal immigration?

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All 100% of my ancestors came here documented and legal. Which are from Austria, Poland, Germany, The Netherlands, England, and Ireland. There are a few Native American familys in my area who may not have survived 100 years ago if it weren’t for my Irish ancestors charity twards them. I just want immigration to be documented , orderly, and legal.
I also want those most deserved to be the first in line. We must first serve our allies, then people from around the world like Africans who have never known what clean drinking water tasted like and have never gone a day without hunger.

I’m not against immigration. I’m against taking in people who forced their way into this country. It’s that simple.
 
As a AMERICAN (whose background is Hispanic) you are wrong in your stereotyping. English is my first and only language. I barely know Spanish. My family and I are not changing the American culture. America is a mixed culture from many different continents and backgrounds. You are spewing hatred. Don’t label yourself Catholic. You are making the rest of the faithful look bad. btw we are not in any gangs and we are not sending money anywhere:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .
 
Would you be upset to learn that schools in low income areas are no longer offering any choice of foreign language except Spanish?
No. Spanish is the most useful foreign language to know in the US. If they have the money to offer other languages, then great. But if they can only afford one, why not Spanish?
Would you be upset when most of the charitable funds in your city are going to help illegal aliens and not to help poor Americans?
Somewhat. I mean, I do think that illegal immigrants should be investigated and denied many of the programs of citizens. But I have more sympathy for many illegal aliens than poor Americans. Many poor Americans had opportunities that they did not take (obviously, some are just unfortunate)…I’m guessing most people who fled Mexico had very little way to better themselves. And its not lke charities would favor illegals - there would just be more competition.
Would you be upset when your city, county and state tell you they’re running out of funds for vital services and you know they have been giving food, education, and health services to illegal aliens for years?
Again, I don’t believe we should be supporting illegals over citizens when resources are scarce. But if resources are around, I think educating illegals is the best way to combat problems like gangs.
Would you be upset when the Catholic Church that your family has faithfully donated to generation after generation for over 70+ years is giving preferential aid to those illegal aliens yet you yourself are considered low income?
Why would they give preferential aid? That is wrong.
 
In this debate over illegal immigration, I’d like to bring up some things from personal experience. Emergency rooms, As a sufferer of frequent kidneystones in my past Iv’e seen the emergency room a few times. Ican remember plenty of times the one I go to being overfilled with Hispanics not speaking English bringing kids in for obvious colds and the like. Maybe its time one has to prove they are an American citizen to use American hospitals. I’m a Dominos driver and have been for 15+ years. We have a strict policy of accepting no 50s or 100s. It’s the Hispanics that are most likely by far to get out a 50 to pay for the order. If they are having such a hard time how can they afford to carry 50 dollar bills while I can’t even afford to look at one? Last as a pizza driver I 'm exposed to what they watch on tv and listen to on the radio, and their entertasinment is strictly Hispanic, that they watch and listen to.
While Bosnians and Koreans learn English and otherwise assimilate the Hispanics generally with few exceptions don’t. I say if you are an undocumented immigrant you go back where you came from and then come here the correct way. Before any one starts calling me racist too, please note this is personal experience I’m speaking from here. Also note I gave positive credit for assimilation to 2 groups that are “darker skinned” people. Also of notce my wife babysits for a young Hispanic lady who is here 100% legally so this is not an issue of race. undocumeneted illigrants should be treated the same and any other law breakers, and shipped back.
I go to county hospitals too. Mine was a haven for hispanics until they started asking for photo IDs. Now you can actually get a seat there. But unfortunately they did that too late and our county had to close many of its clinics and fire many doctors.

My town gets all kind of federal and state aid to send these kids to school. Brand new schools and the latest equipment, yet only 70% graduate and each year that figure drops.

The parents drive 2008 SUVs that cost $40,000 yet they claim poverty. That’s why are economy is falling apart. The homes on either side of me are vacant.

On one side lived a nice family with two cute kids but they could never let them walk around in front of the house because of all the wild kids and gangs that infest our neighborhood. They moved about a year ago and I don’t blame them.

On the other side was a house load of Mexicans who were nice enough even though we couldn’t really speak to each other. But, they all moved out on night and the bank had a clean up crew go through the place.

I watched them take out matress after matress. It was a single family home that was illegally converted to a 3 flat. That’s nothing new. If you start breaking the law, why stop? Now the bank is stuck with that house.

No! The American taxpayer is stuck with that house.
 
Jesus didn’t have to deal with a culture trying to invade his homeland!
Jesus spoke about caring for the poor and modeled that behavior himself. He went so far as to say that by showing kindness to the needy we are showing it to Christ himself! “For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in." Matthew 25:35

In Hebrews we are told that angels will approach us for help and by helping strangers we could be showing hospitality to angels Heb 13:2 “Stop neglecting to show hospitality to strangers, for by showing hospitality some have had angels as their guests without being aware of it.”

Jesus Christ modeled a life and ministry of compassion to the poor. He mingled with them (Luke 5:1-11), ate with them (Luke 5:27-32), comforted them (Luke 12:22-34), fed them (Luke 9:10-17), healed them (Luke 5:12-16), and ministered to them (Luke 7:18-23).

Last time I checked, the Hebrews were an oppressed nation under the Roman Empire, and Jesus was one of them. The USA is the new Rome. Looks like you would have neglected Jesus brothers just because he would have not shared our passport.

Start loving, stop hating, as Jesus did.

I believe He told one fellow to sell all he owned and give the money to the poor. Unless someone has done that, then IMHO, he or she has no business telling someone else what should done with their tax and charitable donation money…
 
Jesus spoke about caring for the poor and modeled that behavior himself. He went so far as to say that by showing kindness to the needy we are showing it to Christ himself! “For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in." Matthew 25:35

In Hebrews we are told that angels will approach us for help and by helping strangers we could be showing hospitality to angels Heb 13:2 “Stop neglecting to show hospitality to strangers, for by showing hospitality some have had angels as their guests without being aware of it.”

Jesus Christ modeled a life and ministry of compassion to the poor. He mingled with them (Luke 5:1-11), ate with them (Luke 5:27-32), comforted them (Luke 12:22-34), fed them (Luke 9:10-17), healed them (Luke 5:12-16), and ministered to them (Luke 7:18-23).

Last time I checked, the Hebrews were an oppressed nation under the Roman Empire, and Jesus was one of them. The USA is the new Rome. Looks like you would have neglected Jesus brothers just because he would have not shared our passport.

Start loving, stop hating, as Jesus did.
I believe He told one fellow to sell all he owned and give the money to the poor. Unless someone has done that, then IMHO, he or she has no business telling someone else what should done with their tax and charitable donation money…
 
If you are truly a christian, you must sacrifice. No American will ever enter the kingdom of heaven without first sacrificing themselves for the glory of what America represents. JUSTICE!
!
Where do you find this in the Bible. I gave you my reference where entrance into heaven is directly related to helping the stranger (Matthew 25) from the mouth of Christ. I will wait for your reference since you think you know what Christitanity is.
 
I believe He told one fellow to sell all he owned and give the money to the poor. Unless someone has done that, then IMHO, he or she has no business telling someone else what should done with their tax and charitable donation money…
You will find that this was said to one person, and one person only in the Bible. Today, God still calls people to a vow poverty, but not all. However the scripture from Matthew 25 is a universal judgement. We not only can tell others of their oblligation, charity demands we must admonish others of something that can cause God to cast them into Hell.
 
Where do you find this in the Bible. I gave you my reference where entrance into heaven is directly related to helping the stranger (Matthew 25) from the mouth of Christ. I will wait for your reference since you think you know what Christitanity is.
You are obviously no Catholic!

THE CROSS MEANS SUFFERING!

Matthew 10:38
“and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.”

Matthew 16:24
"Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.”

Luke 9:23
"Then he said to all, “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me”.

Luke 14:27
“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.”

Mark 8:34
"He summoned the crowd with his disciples and said to them, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.”

Defending the United States from invaders is the Cross that every American must carry.
 
In this debate over illegal immigration, I’d like to bring up some things from personal experience. Emergency rooms, As a sufferer of frequent kidneystones in my past Iv’e seen the emergency room a few times. Ican remember plenty of times the one I go to being overfilled with Hispanics not speaking English bringing kids in for obvious colds and the like. Maybe its time one has to prove they are an American citizen to use American hospitals.Children who are sick shouldn’t be punished because of legal status I’m a Dominos driver and have been for 15+ years. We have a strict policy of accepting no 50s or 100s. It’s the Hispanics that are most likely by far to get out a 50 to pay for the order. If they are having such a hard time how can they afford to carry 50 dollar bills while I can’t even afford to look at one? Last as a pizza driver I 'm exposed to what they watch on tv and listen to on the radio, and their entertasinment is strictly HispanicSo what? That is their entertainment. , that they watch and listen to.
While Bosnians and Koreans learn English and otherwise assimilate the Hispanics generally with few exceptions don’t.More exceptions than you think. I say if you are an undocumented immigrant you go back where you came from and then come here the correct way.👍 Before any one starts calling me racist too, please note this is personal experience I’m speaking from here. Also note I gave positive credit for assimilation to 2 groups that are “darker skinned” people. Also of notce my wife babysits for a young Hispanic lady who is here 100% legally so this is not an issue of race. undocumeneted illigrants should be treated the same and any other law breakers, and shipped back.
 
You are obviously no Catholic!

THE CROSS MEANS SUFFERING!

Matthew 10:38
“and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.” How is hating Mexicans carrying a cross? If anything it is mob mentality

Matthew 16:24
"Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me."You are not denying yourself because you are giving in to hatred

Luke 9:23
"Then he said to all, “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me”. Again, you are giving yourself over to hatred

Luke 14:27
"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple."Jesus would be kind to those who are suffering and would treat others humanely, while you are suggesting that Mexicans are “infesting”(keep in mind we are talking about people) your neighborhood.

Mark 8:34
"He summoned the crowd with his disciples and said to them, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.” You keep using the same scripture to make your point.

You are making Jesus and America the same. Jesus and America are not the same. One is a country and one is the LORD(who doesn’t care what nationality any of his children are!!!)

Defending the United States from invaders is the Cross that every American must carry.
definition of invade in·vade (n-vd)
v. in·vad·ed, in·vad·ing, in·vades
v.tr.
  1. To enter by force in order to conquer or pillage.(as far as I know the illegal immigrants are not here to conquer)
  2. To encroach or intrude on; violate(they are not here to violate anyone)
    When people use the term invade, it usually means that someone is using military force of violence to harm us(good example:airplanes flying into the twin towers)
 
If we had a process where they could be legal without fear of deportation, where they would work for at least min wage, maybe even benefits, then they would start doing regular health care and be able to settle in a home long term. THe way things are now the only benefactors are companies that are willing to break the law and hire illegals at less than min wage. We don’t get the income tax money and everyone lives in fear.

Steps:
Easy process to be here legally and work.
Incentives to assimilate
I go to county hospitals too. Mine was a haven for hispanics until they started asking for photo IDs. Now you can actually get a seat there. But unfortunately they did that too late and our county had to close many of its clinics and fire many doctors.

My town gets all kind of federal and state aid to send these kids to school. Brand new schools and the latest equipment, yet only 70% graduate and each year that figure drops.

The parents drive 2008 SUVs that cost $40,000 yet they claim poverty. That’s why are economy is falling apart. The homes on either side of me are vacant.

On one side lived a nice family with two cute kids but they could never let them walk around in front of the house because of all the wild kids and gangs that infest our neighborhood. They moved about a year ago and I don’t blame them.

On the other side was a house load of Mexicans who were nice enough even though we couldn’t really speak to each other. But, they all moved out on night and the bank had a clean up crew go through the place.

I watched them take out matress after matress. It was a single family home that was illegally converted to a 3 flat. That’s nothing new. If you start breaking the law, why stop? Now the bank is stuck with that house.

No! The American taxpayer is stuck with that house.
 
You are obviously no Catholic!

THE CROSS MEANS SUFFERING!

Matthew 10:38
“and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.”

Matthew 16:24
"Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.”

Luke 9:23
"Then he said to all, “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me”.

Luke 14:27
“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.”

Mark 8:34
"He summoned the crowd with his disciples and said to them, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.”

Defending the United States from invaders is the Cross that every American must carry.
Once again, this forum is not the place for stupid insults. Facts work better here. Not one verse you quoted, not one, mentions justice, or fighting for justice. So, since you question my Catholicism, let us expand this, as Scripture study is proving a little taxing for you. Can you find where the Catholic Church supports your unique postition of immigration?

Oh, that’s right you are ticked off at the Catholic Church. Here are some of your past statements:
The Catholic Church has been working against the American poor by supplying funds to Latino organizations that encourage the illegal migration into the US.
This is not a question of Catholic.
We still have the nuclear weapons to turn Mexico into an ashtray. After that, no fence would be needed.
And you question my faith? See to the log in you eye.

In regards to the issue of justice, as well as to point out how poorly formed your assumptions are, I do believe in enforcing current laws and have never said differently. I personally have been involved in the deportation of hundreds, if not thousands, most of whom are not Mexicans, by the way. It in no way changes my opinion on our obligation to treat these people with charity, or my belief that we need a more open border.
 
If we had a process where they could be legal without fear of deportation, where they would work for at least min wage, maybe even benefits, then they would start doing regular health care and be able to settle in a home long term. THe way things are now the only benefactors are companies that are willing to break the law and hire illegals at less than min wage. We don’t get the income tax money and everyone lives in fear.

Steps:
Easy process to be here legally and work.
Incentives to assimilate
Since Catholic Charities and other organizations that we Americans spent years contributing to are giving these people the funding that the American poor are supposed to get, there is little hope of ever removing these people in a non violent way.

Once you have repeatedly given aid to a group, that group begins to feel that they are entitled to that aid. It becomes a lifelong freeride and don’t you dare try to take it away.

Have you looked at the outrageous “No Child Left Behind” laws. If a child has fallen from outer space and landed in the US, it is the US taxpayer who must bare the burden of taking care of that child till that child reaches 18 years of age. And now, there are groups forming to force American taxpayers to continue educational aid to that child that seems unlimited. It is possible that in the future the American taxpayer will be forced to give that child a million dollar education while the American poor get NOTHING!

The groups being aided by Catholic and other charities have already caused employers to, in one case, increase the median wage from $7/hr to $13/hr. That is absolute proof that the “immigrant” will not be working for low wages, but in fact, decent wages that any other American would work for.

The LIE has been exposed! With that evidence, you can see that Americans, will not see Mexicans working for low wages that all employers claim they can only afford to pay or go out of business.

You will NEVER see a return on the money spent on these groups of people. In my neighborhood, a child gets a PK-12 education for FREE while the American taxpayer must foot the bill of roughly $180,000.00 in educational expenses alone.

But before you raise the local tax issue and claim that THEIR parents are paying, I must inform you that only 25.5% of those expences are payed with local taxes. 62% is from state funds and 12.5% from federal funds.

The state average for educational expenditures is 64.9% local, 27.8% state, and 7.3% federal funds. Big difference in funding.

To show how an upper middle class neighborhood must carry the additional load, one neighborhood is paying 88.4% from local taxes.

Now compare 25.5% low income, 64.9% state average, and 88.4% upper middle class educational expenses payed in local taxes. Major differences.

But you might say, well let the upper middle class pay more. That’s fair! I must remind you that their is no such thing as a free lunch for the American taxpayer. Most businesses simply raise prices to compensate for losses and who gets stuck. The American taxpayer. Also consider that the upper middle class neighborhood has a lower crime rate and is a more desirable place to live.

This is but ONE of the negative aspects of “feeding the monster” called immigration. It is amusing to watch but just feed a stray cat for one day. That same cat will show up on your door step over and over again, and you will feel sorry for that cat and you will feed it over and over again and the cycle will continue.

But all that time, the American poor will still be asking itself, “Where’s mine?”. What will you say to THEM, America?
 
Once again, this forum is not the place for stupid insults. Facts work better here. Not one verse you quoted, not one, mentions justice, or fighting for justice. So, since you question my Catholicism, let us expand this, as Scripture study is proving a little taxing for you. Can you find where the Catholic Church supports your unique postition of immigration?

Oh, that’s right you are ticked off at the Catholic Church. Here are some of your past statements:

And you question my faith? See to the log in you eye.

In regards to the issue of justice, as well as to point out how poorly formed your assumptions are, I do believe in enforcing current laws and have never said differently. I personally have been involved in the deportation of hundreds, if not thousands, most of whom are not Mexicans, by the way. It in no way changes my opinion on our obligation to treat these people with charity, or my belief that we need a more open border.
Since you pick and choose what you WISH to respond to, I will do the same.

I will make it simple. That picture of the child. I imagine it is yours. Are you going to tell me that you would rather feed “immigants” than your own child.

What if the day came when you had to make that choice? The choices Americans make, effect the lives of many. Would you agree?

The people that Americans allow in this country will someday effect the futures of the nations of the World. We must CHOOSE carefully. The one good apple that must be saved in a barrel of rotten ones is a wonderful fable but it never happens in real life. I might remind you that Allied bombers killed many innocent civilians just to get that one evil enemy soldier during WW2. I will not let those people’s sacrifice be made for nothing.

I have no children and very little family. I could just lean back in my chair and say “To hell with the world. I’m only going to look after myself like every other corrupt person in this country. I’m going to ignore all the sacrifices made by the millions over the years and just look after number one. I have no family anyway. Let everyone look after themselves. By the time this evil is spread throughout the World, I’ll be dead anyway! WHO CARES!”

Is that what Jesus had in mind?
 
Since you pick and choose what you WISH to respond to, I will do the same.

I will make it simple. That picture of the child. I imagine it is yours. Are you going to tell me that you would rather feed “immigants” than your own child. Your accusation is disgusting and uncharitable

What if the day came when you had to make that choice? The choices Americans make, effect the lives of many. Would you agree?

The people that Americans allow in this country will someday effect the futures of the nations of the World. We must CHOOSE carefully.paranoia The one good apple that must be saved in a barrel of rotten ones is a wonderful fable but it never happens in real life. I might remind you that Allied bombers killed many innocent civilians just to get that one evil enemy soldier during WW2Didn’t make it right!!. I will not let those people’s sacrifice be made for nothing.*It isn’t made for nothing America is still a melting pot and beacon of freedom to those who appreciate it:) *

I have no children and very little family. I could just lean back in my chair and say "To hell with the world. I’m only going to look after myself like every other corrupt person in this country. I’m going to ignore all the sacrifices made by the millions over the years and just look after number one. I have no family anyway. Let everyone look after themselves. By the time this evil is spread throughout the World, I’ll be dead anyway! WHO CARES!"Your comparing evil to immigrants. That is weird

Is that what Jesus had in mind?
:eek: This would be funny, if this wasn’t so sad.
 
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out–

because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a socialist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me–
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemoller
 
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out–

because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a socialist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me–
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemoller
…then they came for the illegal immigrant, and I said “deport those scum!” - Bullfighter (not an actual quote, of course)

I think you miss the point of Pastor Niemoller’s quote.
 
Bullfighter; So much to pick from! I can only respond to couple of points.

I have read about NCLB quite a bit for different reasons. To lay some quick concrete facts:

The Department of Education points to the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) results, released in July 2005, showing improved student achievement in reading and math:
  • More progress was made by nine-year-olds in reading in the last five years than in the previous 28 years combined.
  • America’s nine-year-olds posted the best scores in reading (since 1971) and math (since 1973) in the history of the report. America’s 13-year-olds earned the highest math scores the test ever recorded.
  • Reading and math scores for African American and Hispanic nine-year-olds reached an all-time high.
  • Achievement gaps in reading and math between white and African American nine-year-olds and between white and Hispanic nine-year-olds are at an all-time low.
  • Forty-three states and the District of Columbia either improved academically or held steady in all categories (fourth- and eighth-grade reading and fourth- and eighth-grade math).
    TO lay some facts on the value of an education, it works the same for the government as it does for us. If you look at the AVERAGE salary gap between college educated and high school educated.
    According to the Census Bureau, over an adult’s working life, high school graduates earn an average of $1.2 million; associate’s degree holders earn about $1.6 million; and bachelor’s degree holders earn about $2.1 million (Day and Newburger, 2002).
So at 10% tax bracket the HS educated pays 120k over his life. The bachelors degree is in higher bracket and pays 20% so he pays $420k over his life. Twelve years of school costs around $7000/year so that is $84k. Four years of public college is around $10k/year or another $40k. So for $124k per person of education expense we get $420k-$120k-124k = $176k per person additional tax revenue over their lifetime, plus additional sales taxes, etc. I’m not saying college is for everyone, or that we could have everyone college educated, but the justification for education is financially easy. I think state college should be free if you can qualify.

NCLB was an attempt to bring accountability to schools. I don’t think they have done as well as they could, but it has clearly improved education. We must break the poverty cycle in inner cities and rural towns. Education is one way.

National Average to pay for schools (from 1997)
** Local State National Avg cost/yr
US Avg 45% 48% 7% $6.8k
Regardless it is each of us tax payers who pay the taxes whether to local, state or national so I’m not sure what difference the break out makes really.**
Have you looked at the outrageous “No Child Left Behind” laws. If a child has fallen from outer space and landed in the US, it is the US taxpayer who must bare the burden of taking care of that child till that child reaches 18 years of age. And now, there are groups forming to force American taxpayers to continue educational aid to that child that seems unlimited. It is possible that in the future the American taxpayer will be forced to give that child a million dollar education while the American poor get NOTHING!
You will NEVER see a return on the money spent on these groups of people. In my neighborhood, a child gets a PK-12 education for FREE while the American taxpayer must foot the bill of roughly $180,000.00 in educational expenses alone.
 
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