How to take a stand on illegal immigration?

[Bullfighter]

Immigrants.

Your arguments make a lot of assumptions that are blatantlly false. If there was a grand conspiracy by people from Latin America to invade our country and take it over, then you would have a point. Such a grand conspiracy does not exist, except in your mind and in a couple of very small, very fringe groups of Latin Americans. The reason your views are racist is because you are attributing such conspiratorial notion to an entire group of people, based purely on their race. That is racism by definition.

The vast majority of immigrants come here for their own personal reasons - generally for financial and/or “American dream” sort of reasons. The same reasons that immigrants have come here (legally or illegally) throughout the history of our country.

I join you in the desire to fix the immigration issue. I agree that it is unfair to people who play by the rules to face deportation because their Visas have run out, while millions of people who came in illegally fly under the radar. I have a friend and former co-worker who is a Mexican-national married to a Japanese-national - both are here on valid work Visas. If he loses his job (the company is shakey), they are in a real bind. Apparently, his wife has a better chance of getting approved for a green card, because she is from Japan. I am hoping they get that in place before anything happens to his job.

If the total hispanic population was under 10% then I would agree because that would be a fair percentage for their race to be here. But it is much higher than that. And immigration is a matter of displacement. You can only put 16oz. of liquid in a 16oz. glass correct? There only so many jobs to go around and after that what do you do.

Why are more schools offering Spanish as a foreign language and no other? Sounds like our educational system only cares about one culture and it’s not the American one. But I guess only a racist would point that out.

More and more Hispanics are skipping Church to worship “Santa Muerte” - Saint Death. I got that from another post on this website so don’t blame me for inventing it. They pray to this hooded figure of death to bless what ever ailes them and to bless the drugs they will be sneaking across the border. I got that from TIME magazine, but they’re probably racist too.

Maybe their is a conspiracy of racists in this country picking on the poor hard working etc. etc. etc.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

If the total hispanic population was under 10% then I would agree because that would be a fair percentage for their race to be here. But it is much higher than that. And immigration is a matter of displacement. You can only put 16oz. of liquid in a 16oz. glass correct? There only so many jobs to go around and after that what do you do.

What race percentages are correct to you?

…and, no, our country is not the equivalent of a 16oz. glass.

Bullfighter:

Why are more schools offering Spanish as a foreign language and no other? Sounds like our educational system only cares about one culture and it’s not the American one. But I guess only a racist would point that out.

Well, when I was growing up in the SF Bay Area and LA area, we were able to take Spanish, French or German in High School. When we moved back to the Bay Area, my son had a choice of Spanish, French, Chinese or Japanese. Things changed with the times and the languages spoken in the area. There isn’t much call for German, but the High School I graduated from is now 70% Asian (primarily Chinese and Japanese). The High School my wife graduated from (same that my son attended when we were there) in the city nearby is about 34% Latino, 17% Asian (mostly Indian) and 14% Filipino. It makes sense that they would offer Spanish, Chinese and Japanese in that area…not so sure about French.

More and more Hispanics are skipping Church to worship “Santa Muerte” - Saint Death. I got that from another post on this website so don’t blame me for inventing it. They pray to this hooded figure of death to bless what ever ailes them and to bless the drugs they will be sneaking across the border. I got that from TIME magazine, but they’re probably racist too.

That is a misrepresentation. “Santa Muerte” worship is only big in the gang and criminal community. This is where, yes, you are being racist to take information about gangs from TIME magazine and make the false accusation that "more and more Hispanics are skipping Church to worship “Santa Muerte.” The gangs and criminals should indeed be arrested and deported. It is a big problem. But, it is not representative of Latinos as a whole.

 

[Bullfighter]

That is a misrepresentation. “Santa Muerte” worship is only big in the gang and criminal community. This is where, yes, you are being racist to take information about gangs from TIME magazine and make the false accusation that "more and more Hispanics are skipping Church to worship “Santa Muerte.” The gangs and criminals should indeed be arrested and deported. It is a big problem. But, it is not representative of Latinos as a whole.

Well I guess you better call Time magazine racist because I didn’t write the article.

time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1671984,00.html

What do you call a person who falsely calls someone a racist?

“Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”

Oh yeah! Only white people have to follow those laws!

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Well I guess you better call Time magazine racist because I didn’t write the article.

time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1671984,00.html

What do you call a person who falsely calls someone a racist?

“Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”

Oh yeah! Only white people have to follow those laws!

Thank you for posting the Time article - it was illuminating. It doesn’t change the rants that you have made, but I appreciate the correction. I thought it was only in the gang community. I’m glad the priests are addressing the problem, because it looks like it is even worse than the flirtation I’ve seen with Wicca and Satan worship in other communities. It reminds me a lot of Voodoo-type twisting of our faith.

Based on your posts, I don’t believe I am bearing false witness. The level of hatred that you have shown for Latinos and the fact that you lump them all together as criminals and invaders is evidence enough. …and your “only white people” comment is just plain ignorant silliness.

 

[Bullfighter]

Thank you for posting the Time article - it was illuminating. It doesn’t change the rants that you have made, but I appreciate the correction. I thought it was only in the gang community. I’m glad the priests are addressing the problem, because it looks like it is even worse than the flirtation I’ve seen with Wicca and Satan worship in other communities. It reminds me a lot of Voodoo-type twisting of our faith.

Based on your posts, I don’t believe I am bearing false witness. The level of hatred that you have shown for Latinos and the fact that you lump them all together as criminals and invaders is evidence enough. …and your “only white people” comment is just plain ignorant silliness.

During the American Civil War, a group of Union(Northern) soldiers were being fired upon by Confederate (Southern) soldiers. The Union soldiers fired back.

There was a pause in the shooting while both sides reloaded their weapons. During that time a Union soldier yelled out to the Confederates. “Hey! Why are you shooting at us?”

A Confederate soldier replied quite simply " 'Cause you boys are down here!"

The historian, Shelby Foote, who told this story laughed and said,“It was a perfectly logical answer!”

 

[Carjack1]

You must think that all Catholics are suckers or at least the white ones are. No. I am not racist. My white husband would laugh at this commentHow many of Mexico’s presidents were in bed with the drug cartels. Who are you trying to kid. Your wonderful people I think you are mistaken, I do not own people. have been sending that poison across the border to kill Americans for years!I am aware that thugs (of all nationalities and races) have been sending drugs in an selling them for years.

You ASSume to much. You know what they say about assuming :tsktsk: . I am not Mexican. I am an American of Puerto Rican descent(third generation, not that it is any of your business. FYI My family were automatic citizens when they were born in Puerto Rico(which is a commonwealth of the US). So we had no illegal means of getting into the main land of this country, in case you assume much more. My family came to the Main Land (The USA) to better their lives. I am sure your ancestors did the same. The USA is a melting pot made up of many spices and flavors(Races and ethnic backgrounds), without each of the ingredients that it consists of, it would not be the US of America. (Hopefully, you have enough intellect to grasp the meaning of my words) So you think my “people”(Americans) are bring drugs into the country? How can they cross the border when they are already here? hmmm, interesting. Are you aware that drugs come in and are grown from other countries(beside Latin American countries)?

 

[Bullfighter]

The USA is a melting pot made up of many spices and flavors(Races and ethnic backgrounds), without each of the ingredients that it consists of, it would not be the US of America. (Hopefully, you have enough intellect to grasp the meaning of my words).

If you are Puerto Rican, I would think the last thing you would want to see in YOUR country is people who don’t exactly like Puerto Ricans. And I don’t mean white people!

. Are you aware that drugs come in and are grown from other countries(beside Latin American countries)?

Can you name them??

 

[latinmasslover]

How do you guys view this issue and express your opinions on it?

A large part of me believes in cultural hegemony within a nation, and I know that illegals undermine this. However, an even greater part of me realizes that these people have families, and most come from countries that suffer under poor conditions and corruption. I am by no means pro-deportation, I believe that solution is inhumane and does not take into consideration human dignity. But I am not pro-legalized citizenship of illegals either. I believe in a middle ground, one where they can stay here and work but where they also don’t get benefits such as voting.

What do you guys think, and what does the Catholic Church think? I am a fairly new Catholic and have not heard a whole lot about this issue. Thanks and God bless!

If they want to live in this country than they need to make the effort to become citizens of this country, which includes learning English (or the native language of whatever country one wishes to live in). Face the responsibility or leave. Simple enough.

 

[pnewton]

If they want to live in this country than they need to make the effort to become citizens of this country, which includes learning English (or the native language of whatever country one wishes to live in). Face the responsibility or leave. Simple enough.

Yes, they should as a matter of practicality, but should it be a law? Do you think Americans who work over sees should be required to learn the native language? If they work in Saudia Arabia, Arabic, for example?

 

[Carjack1]

If you are Puerto Rican, I would think the last thing you would want to see in YOUR country is people who don’t exactly like Puerto Ricans.I will not stoop to the level of hatred that you are propogating. I have friends who are of Mexican descent(entered legally) and even if I met Mexicans who hated me because I am of Puerto Rican descent, then I would not stoop down to their level. Hatred and stereotyping is wrong. Plain and Simple!! And I don’t mean white people!I am aware that there are other racists beside caucasion people

Can you name them??

This is where they are grown allafrica.com/stories/200803280319.html Africa grows the most and then transports it(marijuana), especially Uganda.

The Middle East grows herion thecyn.com/heroin-addiction/heroin-today.html

 

[Carjack1]

Yes, they should as a matter of practicality, but should it be a law? Do you think Americans who work over sees should be required to learn the native language? If they work in Saudia Arabia, Arabic, for example?

I agree with latinmasslover that learning the language of the country one is in, is considerate. Should other languages be outlawed here? No. That would infringe on free speech.

 

[Bullfighter]

This is where they are grown allafrica.com/stories/200803280319.html Africa grows the most and then transports it(marijuana), especially Uganda.

The Middle East grows herion thecyn.com/heroin-addiction/heroin-today.html

In the United States, most of the heroin that is sold and consumed comes from Mexico and Columbia, though nations such as Pakistan were – up until recently – large producers and exporters.

That is off the website above.

 

[Carjack1]

That is off the website above.

I stated that there were other countries, **besides Latin America **that are involved with drugs.

We were on the subject of illegal immigration. You somehow made it into a Latino Hatefest.

 

[Bullfighter]

I stated that there were other countries, **besides Latin America **that are involved with drugs.

We were on the subject of illegal immigration. You somehow made it into a Latino Hatefest.

Originally Posted by Bullfighter forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/viewpost.gif
*

If you are Puerto Rican, I would think the last thing you would want to see in YOUR country is people who don’t exactly like Puerto Ricans.I will not stoop to the level of hatred that you are propogating. I have friends who are of Mexican descent(entered legally) and even if I met Mexicans who hated me because I am of Puerto Rican descent, then I would not stoop down to their level. Hatred and stereotyping is wrong. Plain and Simple!!

And I don’t mean white people!I am aware that there are other racists beside caucasion people
*I never brought up what race those people might be. Only that they wouldn’t be white. YOU were the one to say “Mexican”. *
Now that IS interesting!!!

 

[Carjack1]

Originally Posted by Bullfighter forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cab/viewpost.gif
*
*I never brought up what race those people might be. Only that they wouldn’t be white. YOU were the one to say “Mexican”. *
Now that IS interesting!!!

Bullfighter, YOU have been bashing Latinos and using Mexicans as your example of why you hate people from latin american countries, so don’t play coy with me! I am not playing word games with you. I say what I have to say directly. I am sorry if you do not like my straight forward manner of speaking. You tried to get me to hate illegal immigrants like you do, because “I should not want to see people who hate Puerto Ricans living here”. I know what you were implying and I said so.
I am also pointing out that your ideas about other people are not the views and ideas of the Catholic Church. You may give people the wrong impression of the CC’s views to someone who is reading this thread and is considering becoming Catholic.

 

[Bullfighter]

Bullfighter, YOU have been bashing Latinos and using Mexicans as your example of why you hate people from latin american countries, so don’t play coy with me! I am not playing word games with you. I say what I have to say directly. I am sorry if you do not like my straight forward manner of speaking. You tried to get me to hate illegal immigrants like you do, because “I should not want to see people who hate Puerto Ricans living here”. I know what you were implying and I said so.
I am also pointing out that your ideas about other people are not the views and ideas of the Catholic Church. You may give people the wrong impression of the CC’s views to someone who is reading this thread and is considering becoming Catholic.

Are you suggesting that all loyal Catholics are forced to accept illegal immigrants into their country? I don’t see that in the bible or any rule book on catholicism. Breaking the law is still breaking the law. All those people who are using fake documents are felons and should be jailed. No one forced them to come here. And no real American wants them to stay.

 

[Carjack1]

Are you suggesting that all loyal Catholics are forced to accept illegal immigrants into their country?No that is not what I am saying I don’t see that in the bible or any rule book on catholicism.I am glad because I wasn’t suggesting it Breaking the law is still breaking the law.I agree here. All those people who are using fake documents are felons and should be jailed. I agree. Where would they be jailed at? If it is here in the US, we are still paying for illegal immigrants to stay hereNo one forced them to come here. And no real American wants them to stay.There are “real”(I have a feeling our definition of the word is different) Americans who like to see a pathway to citizenship, because the massive deportation that everyone is speaking of is unrealistic. I wasted so much time and energy on this. God Bless You Bullfighter. I need to step away from this thread because I can not be charitable any longer.

 

[pnewton]

All those people who are using fake documents are felons and should be jailed.

This is simply untrue. Not all who use fake documents are felons.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

… And no real American wants them to stay.

This is simply untrue

 

[pnewton]

This is simply untrue

I guess it depends on how one defines “real American.” I know many good Americans that have no desire to see illegal immigrants deported. I really have no real feeling one way or another, except for those who commit subsequent crimes once here. For the rest, I am live and let live. So by Bullfighter’s definition I must be unreal or unAmerican. Since I was born here, I guess that makes me unreal. I like that.