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Rau
Guest
You are annoyed…that your mother is somewhat distraught? Seeing that she is your mother…perhaps you could cut her some slack?
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Rau
Guest
You be the judge.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
Look, mom is responsible for her own feelings and behavior. Holding religious beliefs does not excuse her outright bad behavior towards her family.
OP: Maybe you should tell your parents that this is between them and him and you will not join them in harassing and badgering him to change. You should probably also point out that it is none of their business who you live with and you won’t entertain anymore talk of kicking your boyfriend out. Being religious does not exempt anyone from treating others with basic courtesy and respect.
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mommy_k
Guest
You have to understand that this is shocking news. I believe in time your parents will be able to separate things and come to grips with reality. But you and your brother knew it would upset them, and so the surprise of thier reaction should not be such a surprise–kwim?
If you do not want to be dragged into a pick and choose who you are supporting here–as you posted–, take a neutral stance. Tell your parents you love your brother, and tell your brother you love your parents too. The less you say right now until the dust settles is best.
If you do not want to be dragged into a pick and choose who you are supporting here–as you posted–, take a neutral stance. Tell your parents you love your brother, and tell your brother you love your parents too. The less you say right now until the dust settles is best.
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Rau
Guest
While mom may not have an “excuse”, her distress is pretty understandable and it’s a bit rough to simply call it “bad behaviour”. How long ago did she learn the news? Two months, and we read mum hasn’t really stopped crying since. Two daughters - and now one son - all living with boyfriends. Probably things haven’t gone for this family the way mom would have hoped.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
I think it’s a little insane to expect people to tolerate screaming, insults, pleading, and crying because their parents are disappointed in how they turned out. How insulting and hurtful. It’s really the parents’ issue at the end of the day and not something the kids should burden themselves with.
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Truth_Faith13
Guest
While it doesn’t excuse the behaviour and I certainly don’t agree with conversion therapy, whenever people hear unwanted news, it can throw them into a “throw toys out of pram” response and unfortunately sometimes hurtful things are said regardless of the situation.
Your best response is to say you are not discussing the matter and leave it at that.
How did your parents respond when you moved in with your bf? While not fully accepting the situation, the fact that you have maintained a relationship etc suggests they have the capacity to calm down once the initial shock is out of the way.
Your best response is to say you are not discussing the matter and leave it at that.
How did your parents respond when you moved in with your bf? While not fully accepting the situation, the fact that you have maintained a relationship etc suggests they have the capacity to calm down once the initial shock is out of the way.
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Rau
Guest
This portrays a complete inability or unwillingness to empathize. I believe you feel that way because, for you, the mother’s faith tenets are not important, and living with boyfriends is entirely fine, for women and men. Apparently, the kids feel the same way - all burden and no empathy.
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ArielRussu
Guest
The OP and there siblings do NOT need to cut there mother some slack. Honestly, what kind of slack would they give them anyway? They acknowledge that there parents are religious Catholics and have beliefs that they do not agree with and that there mother is taking the news really hard and personal. They also acknowledge that there mother is being over the top and acting inappropriately as a result of being in denial and not wanting to accept that her son is gay. What is the OP and her sister supposed too do? Turn around and try and get there brother to change who he is, take there mothers side and try and pray the gay away?
There mother is the one who is acting out of line and going all crazy because her sons existence (no offense meant OP) as a homosexual and his chosen lifestyle go against her very beliefs and core values. She is asking him to “fix” himself by going to conversion therapy because she cannot accept that her son is gay.
For those who think sexuality can be changed, unless you are bisexual and can go both ways, sexuality is hard wired in a persons brain from birth and just develops as a person gets older. It doesn’t matter how much you repress and try to hide what you are, you can’t pray Gayness away. There is a reason why homosexuals and transgendered have a high rate of suicide. It’s because they can’t except themselves and that they will never fit into the societal norm of male and female relationships unless they pretend and live a lie in order too fit in.
They may also feel conflict from religion as they see that there very being/ sexuality is disordered and violates the laws of nature and very teachings of the Bible. They may be upset that, according too the Church, they were never meant by God to experience romantic love but instead were created too be single and set an example about holy singleness too others. How they feel about the “cross” they were given is irrelevant. They may have even grown up hearing there parents say how homosexuals go too Hell and see there parents negative reactions too anyone they see or learn in homosexual. They may also be dealing with being rejected and outcasted by there own family because there family is disgusted and ashamed of them, which can often happen in very religious families.
The OPs mother needs to come to terms that her son is not who she planned him to be and that the dreams and expectations she had for him as a straight man are not going to happen.
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Rau
Guest
The mother needs to come to terms with the present reality, and deserves some understanding and help along the way. “Cut her some slack” means to generously overlook some of her words and actions now in the interests of that end.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
No…but nice try trying to get in a little dig.
Despite what you may “believe” about my feelings, they stem from the fact that like most people, I am a member of a family with many different worldviews, ideas, and values. And, like most people, I don’t dish out or tolerate abusive language or behavior.
Shouting, screaming, crying for days on end, and then finally enlisting in your other children to help “work” on the one that didn’t turn out the way you hoped is unacceptable. And the gay son and his siblings all have a right, and arguably, a responsibility to say “Mom, I understand you’re hurting right now, and I’m happy to talk with you. But I won’t tolerate being talked to/treated this way, and if you can’t stop, you’re going to need to leave until you calm down”. Being gay does not obligate him in any way to accept what most people wouldn’t. There is not excuse for berating an adult child for failing to live up to your expectations for who he would be.
When I told my mom that I was not a Christian, she was very sad, hurt, and scared. We talked several times at length and it wasn’t easy for either of us. But she never spoke to me in the way that the OP describes, and I wouldn’t have stood for it anyway. When we told my in-laws that we were moving in together before we got married, they were surprised and changed the subject. A few days later, my now MIL sat us down for a talk about her concerns, how this was against her values, and what she hoped to see. Again, it wasn’t a comfortable conversation, but it was respectful.
Ask yourself how you would respond if a former Baptist turned Catholic posted about this kind of conflict when telling her Baptist parents about her conversion. Would you really say that because her parents are disappointed that she didn’t turn out Baptist they’re entitled to yell, scream, cry, belittle, and berate her for awhile - and call her siblings and ask for their help? Or would you tell her that she deserves basic respect and that she doesn’t need to tolerate that kind of behavior, even if they are hurt and scared? **Being gay does not in any way diminish the respect or dignity that the OP’s brother deserves. **
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ArielRussu
Guest
Which is what I basically said. The OP and her siblings are ignoring there mothers rants and verbal abuse. However, they have every right too be annoyed with her, even though she is in denial, she is handling the situation badly, by being innappropriate and disrespectful towards her son because she can’t face the reality that her son is gay and there is nothing she can do too change that.
I suggest reading BlueEyedLady’s response directly above for added emphasis.
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AClaire11
Guest
OP, I’m glad your father is more supportive than you expected. While I’m sure your mother is upset and having difficulty coming to terms with the unexpected, challenging news, it’s not okay for her to berate or manipulate you and your siblings, or try to play ''divide and conquer." While there’s nothing wrong with praying and fasting in and of themselves, loudly proclaiming that she’s doing so and also letting everyone know that she hasn’t stopped crying in the way you describe seems very emotionally manipulative and guilt-trippy to me. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with all this. I can empathize, as my husband and I have our share of drama when it comes to our relatives. I hope she eventually accepts that she can’t harangue you all into being Catholic. If anything, I’m sure reactions like this often push people further away!
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Rau
Guest
I was not having a “dig” as you call it, but rather suggesting the one’s perspective colour’s one reactions and attitudes. They can get in the way of empathy. And as much as you repeat it, the fact is that I’ve not defended the mother’s reactions, words or actions as “acceptable” or that she is entitled to act in any particular way. Rather, I’ve said this:
“The mother needs to come to terms with the present reality, and deserves some understanding and help along the way. “Cut her some slack” means to generously overlook some of her words and actions now in the interests of that end.”
I think this is a charitable reaction to extend to one’s mother at this time, rather thant the fully “assertive” position one might seek to take over a different kind of issue in a different context.
As for the Baptist/Catholic scenario, I’d feel the same. The Catholic child should try empathy first, and overlook the lack of equanimity (of the Baptist parent) while the parent comes to terms with the situation.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
You seem to be forgetting that there is another person being hurt here. “Overlooking” her words and actions is going to be very difficult if he has to hear every hysterical variation on being a total disappointment. By refusing to hear this sort of stuff, he will be better able to move on with his mom when she eventually calms down. But taking this sort of treatment will naturally color their relationship for a very long time.
For what it’s worth, I would definitely tell the new Catholic that she has every right to insist on being treated with basic respect. It’s easier to demand it from the beginning than to try to make someone respect you after they’ve been allowed to run roughshod for awhile.
Having empathy and being someone’s punching bag are two very different things. You can have all the empathy in the world and still refuse to subject yourself to this sort of toxic treatment.
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mommy_k
Guest
This thread has turned into questioning the “right way” to react to disturbing news.
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Rau
Guest
Yeah, so all mums take notice - you’ve been warned what’s expected of you!
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bitterhope
Guest
If it’s common for mom to react in this way to news that upsets her, it may possibly be a contributing factor to why all her children have left the church. If the example given to them of Catholicism and Catholics is that praying, mass attending, devotions, fasting, etc goes hand in hand with hurling insults, screaming, becoming hysterical, holding grudges, etc that’s probably something most people want to avoid. Where is the joy of following Jesus? Where is the love of Christ? What is the motivation to find the good in sacrifice? Where is the example of peace and freedom that comes from following God’s will and plan, especially during hard times? Where does love for family and fellow man fit in?
I’m glad dad is handling things better and I pray mom comes around as well. Respect us a two way street. Mom seems to be reacting in a childish way leaving the children (adult children) in the parent role. This is never a good situation for families to be in. Unfortunately moms are human and we often fall, but when I as a mom fall, I make it a point to apologize to my kids and find a way to forge ahead. Anger should only be fleeting while love remains. I hope this is true for your family as well as it is for mine. Keep lines of communication as open as possible while attempting to avoid irreversible damage to relationships. Stay close to your siblings. Try to understand not all Catholics are the same. Praying for peace in your family.
I’m glad dad is handling things better and I pray mom comes around as well. Respect us a two way street. Mom seems to be reacting in a childish way leaving the children (adult children) in the parent role. This is never a good situation for families to be in. Unfortunately moms are human and we often fall, but when I as a mom fall, I make it a point to apologize to my kids and find a way to forge ahead. Anger should only be fleeting while love remains. I hope this is true for your family as well as it is for mine. Keep lines of communication as open as possible while attempting to avoid irreversible damage to relationships. Stay close to your siblings. Try to understand not all Catholics are the same. Praying for peace in your family.
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