How to test the truth of a religion

[I_Believe]

Perhaps the truth of a religion is revealed by the effect it has on it’s faithful. How do they react ?

Do they exibit signs of charity and compassion ?

Do they become filled with hatred and bitterness ?

When they tend to form separate sects, do they coexist peacefully ? Or do they kill one another ?

Do they teach their children to hate ?

Do their clergy/clerics ok acts of terrorism as a means of waging war, in order to allow their governments to dodge accountablility ?

 

[jack_hawkins]

Again, let us remember the challenge of the Qur’an to disbelievers:

“Do they not consider the Qur’an? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy”

…and have you forgotten the many times it has been pointed out to you that this is a non sequitur?
does logic not penetrate your mind hamba2han? is it really that hard to understand that just because the Koran says that a lack of discrepancy proves the Koran is from Allah, does not mean it is so? We have tried to explain to you with many simple examples why this is so, but still you don’t get it!
If I say if you can’t find any discrepancies in my Gospel of Jack Hawkins, then it must be from God, would you accept that as true? If not, why not?

 

[Booklover]

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did not allow the scribes or anyone else to change anything of the Qur’an and if you really wish to know more about the preservation of the Qur’an, then perhaps it is much better that you read this article.

That proves nothing! It’s one article pitted against the other. Considering that Muslims change history to make Muhammad and Islam look good, I see no reason to believe what that article states. Even Wikipedia states that Muhammad wanted him killed. Why would that be unless Sarh was a threat to him? I’ve not been able to find anywhere else where it states that he embraced Islam again and even commanded Muslim troops. And of course, Allah knows best!

As for the battle of as Sawaary where Sarh supposedly defeated the Romans, the only mention I could find on Google is the one from the article you linked. Very illuminating! More manipulation of history to suit Muslims’ agenda.
12
"Abdullah began as a secretary of the the Islamic prophet Muhammad. According to Baidawi in the famous Tafsir Anwar al-Tanzil wa Asrar al-Ta’wil, Muhammad dictated verses starting at (Qur’an 23:12) that says, “We created man of an extraction of clay” and when Muhammad reached the part that says, “… thereafter We produced him as another creature (23:14)”, Abdullah said, “So blessed be God the fairest of creators!” in amazement at the details of man’s creation. The prophet said, “Write it down; for thus it has been revealed.” Abdallah doubted and said, “If Muhammad is truthful then I receive the revelation as much as he does, and if he is a liar, what I said is a good as what he said.”. After this incident, Abdullah repudiated Islam, left Medina and went to Mecca, spreading his belief that Muhammad composed the Qur’an himself without divine intervention.
Following the conquest of Mecca in 629 Muhammad ordered that Abdullah should be executed but Uthman protected him. When conditions calmed, he was presented to Muhammad seeking pardon and offering the oath of loyalty. However, Muhammad withheld his hand, and maintained silence. Uthman begged him to pardon Abdullah and eventually he was, but once Uthman and Abdullah were gone Muhammad turned to those around him, and said I was silent for such a long time hoping that one of you would kill him.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E2%80%98Abdu%E2%80%99llah_ibn_Sa%E2%80%98ad

As I have previously explained, the abrogation of the verses was not because the Creator changed His mind but rather, it was done with definite design, purpose and intent right from the beginning… and so, there is no discrepancy here at all.

And yet when Christians bring up the Trinity, Muslims state that if the Trinity were really true, why didn’t God reveal it at the beginning?

Second, the jinn do not consist of demons alone but instead refers to the invisible beings like fairies, elves, goblins, leprechauns, spirits and the like.

Do you believe in fairies then?

Vickie

 

[George_Waters]

“Scriptures should not contain any discrepancies i.e. it should never contradict itself and neither should it be in conflict with established scientific facts.”

Facts? like the sun setting in a spring of mud???

I guess I should go to answering-christainity.com to “explain” this one to me?

I was involved in an employee selection process today and noted how a couple of the applicants had very logical answers to explain why they had this issue or that, but in the end they were simpling justifying and making excuses… just like Muslim logic.

 

[George_Waters]

And yet when Christians bring up the Trinity, Muslims state that if the Trinity were really true, why didn’t God reveal it at the beginning?

THANK YOU!!!

 

[hamba2han]

Not a muddy pool but here is a picture of the sun setting in a salt lake.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[George_Waters]

Not a muddy pool but here is a picture of the sun setting in a salt lake.

http://www.go-utah.com/UT/images/photos/bearlake-dangorder-sunset.jpg

So the sun sets in a lake now? Gee, I thought the earth revolved around the sun and never sets in anything!

You said the Quran is not contradicted by facts, but here is a fact the Quran has seemed to miss. And don’t even go off about the Bible have similar language. We don’t claim the Bible is the literal word of God and recognize the participation of man in God’s holy book… unlike Muslims.

Really, why even make a challange so absurd that it will only conveince those who already believe? Come on hamba2han you are smarter than this.

 

[Montalban]

So the sun sets in a lake now? Gee, I thought the earth revolved around the sun and never sets in anything!

Well done. It’s errors like this that show that no ‘god’ came up with the Koran. It’s from a human perspective

 

[hamba2han]

While the Qur’an may contain scientific facts, it is nevertheless NOT a science textbook.

In the New Testament, Jesus is reported to have said about the Queen of Sheba that she came from the ends of the earth (Matthew 12:42; Luke 11:31).

Are Jesus’ words false and would you reject the Bible also?

Obviously, we know that the Queen Sheba did not come from the ends of the earth and it is clear that Jesus spoke metaphorically.

Likewise, the Qur’anic statement in question is clearly metaphorical when it says the sun sets in a muddy spring.

 

[George_Waters]

While the Qur’an may contain scientific facts, it is nevertheless NOT a science textbook.

In the New Testament, Jesus is reported to have said about the Queen of Sheba that she came from the ends of the earth (Matthew 12:42; Luke 11:31).

Are Jesus’ words false and would you reject the Bible also?

Obviously, we know that the Queen Sheba did not come from the ends of the earth and it is clear that Jesus spoke metaphorically.

Likewise, the Qur’anic statement in question is clearly metaphorical when it says the sun sets in a muddy spring.

Please read post #105 again.

You said the Quran is not contradicted by facts, but here is a fact the Quran has seemed to miss. And don’t even go off about the Bible have similar language. We don’t claim the Bible is the literal word of God and recognize the participation of man in God’s holy book… unlike Muslims.

 

[hamba2han]

The Qur’an is indeed the literal Word of God.

Are you saying that God is not allowed to talk metaphorically to His creations?

Like I said, the Qur’an is not a science textbook.

In fact, it uses the most beautiful Arabic language ever seen in history.

 

[Montalban]

The Qur’an is indeed the literal Word of God.

Are you saying that God is not allowed to talk metaphorically to His creations?

Like I said, the Qur’an is not a science textbook.

In fact, it uses the most beautiful Arabic language ever seen in history.

You need to make up your collective minds then. Moslems forward the Koran as proof of science discoveries re: embryos, the creation of the universe etc. Now suddenly not! ?!?

 

[Morning_Star15]

The Qur’an is indeed the literal Word of God.

Are you saying that God is not allowed to talk metaphorically to His creations?

Like I said, the Qur’an is not a science textbook.

In fact, it uses the most beautiful Arabic language ever seen in history.

Something can’t be both literal and metaphorical at the same time! Either the sun literally sets in a spring of mud or it doesn’t (making that statement a metaphor). So is the Qu’ran the literal or the metaphorical word of God?

 

[Sixtus]

It is unfair to subject the Quaran to such testing as the Non-Moslem world has a vested interest to find error.

If we insist on doing that then surely we are inviting Moslems to ‘spot the errors’ in the bible. We KNOW there are errors in the New Testament. There are an amalgum of reasons why they exist, which does not prove the original texts are wrong, only that there were obviously errors in translation. So too with the Quaran

 

[Morning_Star15]

It is unfair to subject the Quaran to such testing as the Non-Moslem world has a vested interest to find error.

If we insist on doing that then surely we are inviting Moslems to ‘spot the errors’ in the bible. We KNOW there are errors in the New Testament. There are an amalgum of reasons why they exist, which does not prove the original texts are wrong, only that there were obviously errors in translation. So too with the Quaran

Yes, but we don’t claim, as the OP does with regards to the Qu’ran, that the proof that the Bible is the Word of God lies in the fact that there are no discrepancies or errors in it.

 

[Verisimilitude]

As I have previously explained, the abrogation of the verses was not because the Creator changed His mind but rather, it was done with definite design, purpose and intent right from the beginning… and so, there is no discrepancy here at all.

Second, the jinn do not consist of demons alone but instead refers to the invisible beings like fairies, elves, goblins, leprechauns, spirits and the like.

You’re not very good at defending Islam…with good reason. There is no defense to a lie.

Is the without error, absolute truth of the Koran admitting the existance of

fairies, elves, goblins, leprechauns, spirits and the like

, and are they the ones approving the veracity of the Qur’an? I love Tolkien’s science fiction tales about the elves, and the many childhood stories of the others, but fiction is what they are. You missed your chance to now define what other spirits are.

Even though you feel your arguments slipping away, you harden your heart to the Truth and continue to defend the lie. It’s sad really and no longer worth continuing the debate with you.

 

[Keikiolu]

The Qur’an is indeed the literal Word of God.

And I say it’s not. What are you going to do about our disagreement?

How you answer that question is the crux of the difference between a religion based on God who is a Father, and a religion based on God who is a Slave Master.

Are you saying that God is not allowed to talk metaphorically to His creations?

Of course He is. Show me where He does so.

Like I said, the Qur’an is not a science textbook.

No it’s not. It’s a political manipulatory device concocted to unite a bunch of savages to do the bidding of a slaver’s delusion of grandeur.

In fact, it uses the most beautiful Arabic language ever seen in history.

That may be true. Although, since very few people actually speak arabic of that variety, you have to wonder why they stopped (or never started) speaking it, even in moslem countries?

The Arabic of the koran is supposed to be “the actual language of God”.

If that’s true, why hasn’t the entire moslem world, out of religious conviction, come to speak that exact language?

If I thought I knew what language was “God’s Tongue”, I’d sure as “heck” learn it…!

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[hamba2han]

Is the without error, absolute truth of the Koran admitting the existance of fairies, elves, goblins, leprechauns, spirits and the like and are they the ones approving the veracity of the Qur’an? I love Tolkien’s science fiction tales about the elves, and the many childhood stories of the others, but fiction is what they are. You missed your chance to now define what other spirits are.

Oh, have a bit of patience, I haven’t even started yet on the subject of the jinn – Wait till I get into the deal on UFOs and extraterrestrials, Big Foot and the Loch Ness monster to name a few.

But I think that will have to wait till I first delve into the uniqueness of the Qur’an in terms of it’s language, God-willing, when I come back later.

 

[cestusdei]

I had a jinn in my bathroom. Finally I booted him out and sent him to live with Iran’s president. Hope they get along.

 

[exoflare]

This is how I would summarize Hamba’s argument so far…

Hamba2han: This is how you test the truth of a religion - If it has no discrepancies within itself, then it MUST be true.

(counter): I am a prophet from God, though, and MY new religion X is the true religion. It’s only teaching is “There is no God but God and Exoflare is his prophet”.

Hamba: Your religion is false.

(counter): Use your own test against my religion. Can you find any discrepancies therein?

Hamba: No, I can’t. But I’m going to go ahead and contradict what I said to start out with, and claim that THIS TEST IS NOT SUFFICIENT. Let me make up some other “tests” at the top of my head to try and prove you wrong.