How to test the truth of a religion

[hamba2han]

If the Qur’an is so scientific then you should be able to give evidence from science that shows people can understand what ants say.

Since there is now strong scientific evidence to suggest that ants do indeed communicate with one another by using sounds, then why is it so hard to believe that scientists could one day decipher this speech of theirs?

If I am not mistaken, scientists have indeed succeeded in figuring out what type of movements honeybees make while in their hives which will inform other bees of the exact location of flowers.

This being the case, is it then such a huge leap in faith that someone like Prophet Solomon (pbuh) would have been gifted by His Creator this ability to understand ant speech?

 

[The_Truthinator]

This being the case, is it then such a huge leap in faith that someone like Prophet Solomon (pbuh) would have been gifted by His Creator this ability to understand ant speech?

Yes … To elaborate, Solomon was wise for he prayed for wisdom, and God hears and answers such prayers with gladness. His wisdom (which he defines as fear of God and the forsaking of evil) in no way indicates he was gifted with the extraordinary gift of interpreting “ant speech.” To even say that either science or the Scriptures confirm (or suggest) this is an exaggeration in my mind.

Likewise, the Christian Scriptures have been pointed to over and over again, being examined and found to (or thought to) support modern scientific theories like the Big Bang: It says the universe is expanding, time had a beginning, God creates from the “invisible,” etc. However, such an approach to the Scriptures detracts much of the poeticism, the beauty, and the point out of such passages. To expound upon such instances in Scripture, one must be very wary of trying too much to make the Word of God sound most like a science textbook, though I think it’s clear from several such instances the two do not contradict.

By the way, can someone tell me why “Allah” refers to himself as “we” and “us” and “our”? Mohammed was dead-set on destroying any trace of support for the doctrine of the Trinity from his work, yet in borrowing from the creationary passages in Genesis, Mohammed seems to have let in a key phrase in defending the Triunity of God seep in to the Qur’an. The plurality to which God, in the Genesis account, refers to himself with is a great indicater, even from the beginning, that the full Godhead is at work within the creationary scene: The Father speaking everything into existence, The Word creating, and The Holy Spirit hovering over the “deep waters.” Interesting language for “Allah” to chose, considering he was supposedly trying to restore some kind of “pure monotheism” that Christians (who profess but one God in Scripture and in life) twisted–perverted, if you will.

It adds to the poeticism of the Qur’an (you have a very beautiful text, by the way), yes, but has always struck me as impractical considering “Allah’s” intentions in crafting the book.

 

[Verisimilitude]

The Honesty and Trustworthiness of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
…He preaches kindness, piety and tolerance towards all and his followers are on the increase."…The pagans of Makkah, though they rejected Muhammad’s call to Islam, still trusted none but him with their belongings when they traveled. When the Prophet finally escaped Makkah for Madinah, he asked his cousin `Ali to stay behind to return the pledges he was keeping. Trustworthy to all, he wouldn’t keep even a penny’s worth of his enemies’ property.

Can you write a response yourself, and answer the direct question?

And the explaination doesn’t fly very far if such a trustworthy. and honorable person suddenly becomes persecuted and ostrasized. Why would he have to escape if they thought of him so highly?

Don’t you mean they trusted him until he started robbing the caravans when he went to Medina? Not even a penny? He took 20% if there was fighting and 100% if the enemy of Islam just gave up.

And know that whatever of war-booty that you may gain, verily one-fifth (1/5th) of it is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to the near relatives (of the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)), (and also) the orphans, Al-Masakin (the poor) and the wayfarer, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our slave (Muhammad SAW) on the Day of criterion (between right and wrong), the Day when the two forces met (the battle of Badr) - And Allah is Able to do all things.
( سورة الأنفال , Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #41)

The increase of orphans and widows was because of all the fighting.

The prophet had preached the doctrine that war against the unbelievers was a religious duty; and now he could claim that God was on his side. His power was consolidated; the faith of the wavering was strengthened; and his opponents were terrified. The die was cast; Islam was to be a religion of conquest with the sword. After the battle of Badr, Mohammed dared to manifest his hostility to the Jews openly. A Jewess, named Asma, who had written satirical verses on the battle of Badr, was assassinated, by command of Mohammed, as she lay in bed with her child at the breast. The murderer was publicly commended the next day by the prophet. A few weeks later Abu ‘Afak, a Jewish poet whose verses had similarly offended, was likewise murdered. It is said that Mohammed had expressed a desire to be rid of him. These were single instances. The prophet soon found a pretext for attacking in a body the Banu Ḳainuḳa’, one of the three influential Jewish tribes at Medina. They were besieged in their stronghold for fifteen days, and finally surrendered. Mohammed was prevented from putting them all to death only by the insistent pleading in their behalf of Abdallah b. Ubai, the influential leader of the opposition whom Mohammed did not dare offend. Instead, the whole tribe was banished, and its goods were confiscated. The prophet was thus enabled to give material benefits to his followers.

History does not agree with the Islamic version.

 

[cestusdei]

Since there is now strong scientific evidence to suggest that ants do indeed communicate with one another by using sounds, then why is it so hard to believe that scientists could one day decipher this speech of theirs?

If I am not mistaken, scientists have indeed succeeded in figuring out what type of movements honeybees make while in their hives which will inform other bees of the exact location of flowers.

This being the case, is it then such a huge leap in faith that someone like Prophet Solomon (pbuh) would have been gifted by His Creator this ability to understand ant speech?

My dog barks, but I am unable to translate. I doubt you could either. But basically you are admitting there is NO scientific evidence that ants can talk or we communicate with them. Thank you. I guess the quran is not a science text after all.

 

[jack_hawkins]

If indeed it was an oversight on his part, then Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) surely would have corrected it there and then

another of your famous circular arguments ham
this shows why your statements are not persuasive, as you are practising eisegesis as someone pointed out, not exegesis

coming back to ants, did Solomon actually say what the ants said?
if not, then the story falls down completely as simplistic anthropomorphisation

 

[hamba2han]

To elaborate, Solomon was wise for he prayed for wisdom, and God hears and answers such prayers with gladness. His wisdom (which he defines as fear of God and the forsaking of evil) in no way indicates he was gifted with the extraordinary gift of interpreting “ant speech.” To even say that either science or the Scriptures confirm (or suggest) this is an exaggeration in my mind.

The Prophet Solomon (peace be upon him) was indeed endowed with the quality of giving sound decision in complicated cases. Once a dispute arose between two persons. They were present before the Prophet David (peace be upon him). One of them said: Sir, the sheep of that person have trampled over my crops. They have grazed and caused me a considerable loss. It must be compensated by the owner. The shepherd was very poor. He had nothing except sheep and the damage done to the crops exceeded the price of the sheep. The Prophet David (peace be upon him) ordered the defaulter to give his sheep to the owner of the land as reparation. Solomon, the teen-aged child was listening to the judgement of his father. He, respectfully, spoke out: Dear father, undoubtedly, your decision is correct but it will be handed over to more appropriate if all the sheep are the plaintiff for the utilisation of their milk and wool only. The respondent should be directed to render services to the owner of the field until the condition of the damaged fields restores to the normal position. When it is done, sheep must be given back to the shepherd. The Prophet David (peace be upon him) appreciated this novel way of awarding justice and the Holy Qur’an speaks very highly of him:

"And Dawud (David) and Sulaiman (Solomon) when they gave judgement concerning the field, when people’s sheep had strayed and browsed therein by night; and We were witnesses to their judgement. And We made Sulaiman to understand (the case); and unto each of them We gave judgement and knowledge." (21: 78, 79)

However, apart from his wisdom, Prophet Solomon (pbuh) was also gifted with the ability to understand and communicate with such creatures as birds and insects and he also was given power over the jinn and wind was made subservient to him and he could easily perform long journey in the twinkling of an eye. The Holy Qur’an affirms:

"And (We made) the wind subservient to Sulaiman whereof the morning course was a month’s journey and the course a month’s journey." (54:12)

"So We subjected the wind to his power, setting fair by his command withersoever he intended" (38:36)

"And unto Sulaiman We subdued the wind in its raging. It flows by his order towards the land which We had blessed And of every thing We are aware." (21:81) .

Can someone tell me why “Allah” refers to himself as “we” and “us” and “our”?

Allah refers to Himself as We/Us and in the third person. It’s to show the magnanimity of God. That God is One, yet all encompassing.

Also, we need to note the use of the royal ‘We’ in most languages; i.e the use of ‘We’ by a king or an emperor in the sense of the first person singular; ‘I’. Allah is the Lord of all dominion, the King of all Kings and no creation of His really deserves to use the Royal ‘We’; only Allah the Almighty is entitled to its use.

Therefore, “We” for “I” in the Qur’an does not signify plurality in any sense; and there is no question of “We” in such contexts meaning ‘Allah and His angels, etc.’)

 

[hamba2han]

And the explanation doesn’t fly very far if such a trustworthy. and honorable person suddenly becomes persecuted and ostrasized. Why would he have to escape if they thought of him so highly?

Don’t you mean they trusted him until he started robbing the caravans when he went to Medina? Not even a penny? He took 20% if there was fighting and 100% if the enemy of Islam just gave up.

During the first few years in Makkah after the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) received the early revelations, the verses commanding the Muslims to resist and fight their oppressors were not sent down yet.

It is only much later after they have fled their oppressors in Makkah to live in the city of Medina were these verses revealed commanding them to reclaim the lands and property that was rightfully theirs.

Allah has however clearly forbidden Muslims from fighting those who fight not their faith or drive them out from their homes.

**“Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them. For Allah loves those who are just. Allah only forbids you with regard to those who fight you for your faith, and drive you out of your homes and support others in driving you out, from turning to them for protection (or taking them as wali). Those who seek their protection they are indeed wrong- doers.” **(Al-Mumtahinah 60: 8-9)

 

[hamba2han]

But basically you are admitting there is NO scientific evidence that ants can talk or we communicate with them.

You really do need to read this article because it does indeed contain the scientific evidence that you are seeking.

coming back to ants, did Solomon actually say what the ants said?

Always remember that The Qur’an is the literal Word of God and this means that it is actually God Himself who is saying what the ant spoke.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Always remember that The Qur’an is the literal Word of God and this means that it is actually God Himself who is saying what the ant spoke.

and what did the ant say? you are begging the question
I can’t remember that the Koran is the literal word of God because it’s not true - you are breaking the rules of the forum by contiually making these assertions

 

[jack_hawkins]

Allah has however clearly forbidden Muslims from fighting those who fight not their faith or drive them out from their homes

which means those who do not accept the submission and subjugation of dhimmitude!#
please be explicit rather than trying to avoid the harsh realities of what this means

 

[Verisimilitude]

During the first few years in Makkah after the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) received the early revelations, the verses commanding the Muslims to resist and fight their oppressors were not sent down yet.

Because they were in the minority and resistance would prove futile. In those years he commanded the few converts- mostly slaves and the lower class to keep Islam secret.

When he finally ran away to Medina he begged the leaders to protect him. blah blah blah…he becomes the majority in that town and then the violent verses comes down. He makes it profitable to be Muslim…

Not the scaffold to the building of Islam, but the actions of an opportunist.

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

This thread is now closed. Thank you for your participation.

God bless-

Rachel