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jack_hawkins
Guest
The errors in the Koran have been pointed out many times, yet you still persist in the Goebbels model of disinformation - keep on repeating the same lies in the hope people will believe it must therefore be true
I have for example asserted that the embryo is never like a blood clot, as any other doctor will tell you
I have for example asserted that the embryo is never like a blood clot, as any other doctor will tell you
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cestusdei
Guest
The Bible said God made us from earth. So I can claim that muhammed was just copying from us. The quran is simply attempts to imitate real scripture and does so badly.
So far my attempts to speak with ants have failed. Any hints hamba?
So far my attempts to speak with ants have failed. Any hints hamba?
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hamba2han
Guest
At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: “O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it.”
So he smiled, amused at her speech; and he said: “O my Lord! so order me that I may be grateful for Thy favours, which thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I may work the righteousness that will please Thee: And admit me, by Thy Grace, to the ranks of Thy righteous Servants.” … (Al-Qur’an, 27:18 & 19)
Like I mentioned, the Qur’an does not state that Prophet Solomon (pbuh) talked to the ants but that he merely overheard their ‘conversation’.
Also, it is interesting to note that the Qur’an says that it was a female ant which was warning the other ants because it is only in recent times that scientists have discovered that the worker ants are entirely female.
Anyhow, if anyone wishes to actually hear ‘ant talk’, here is an interesting website for you to do this.
So he smiled, amused at her speech; and he said: “O my Lord! so order me that I may be grateful for Thy favours, which thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I may work the righteousness that will please Thee: And admit me, by Thy Grace, to the ranks of Thy righteous Servants.” … (Al-Qur’an, 27:18 & 19)
Like I mentioned, the Qur’an does not state that Prophet Solomon (pbuh) talked to the ants but that he merely overheard their ‘conversation’.
Also, it is interesting to note that the Qur’an says that it was a female ant which was warning the other ants because it is only in recent times that scientists have discovered that the worker ants are entirely female.
Anyhow, if anyone wishes to actually hear ‘ant talk’, here is an interesting website for you to do this.
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havemercy
Guest
Thank you. I was expecting an answer like this, and the links you provided are helpful to me. I just want to better understand what Islam makes of Judaism and Christianity with regards to prophecy.
Also, was the Prophet ever physically in Jerusalem?
Peace.
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hamba2han
Guest
Yes, it was indeed a physical journey that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) made during the event known as Isra and Miraj.
The following is an excerpt from the book ‘Prophet Muhammad the last Messenger in the Bible’:
After the death of Prophet Muhammad’s wife Khadijah, and his uncle Abu Talib who was the leader of Kaabah and a very strong supporter of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) against the people of Makkah, God showed the prophet a great miracle. In the year 621A.D., 13 months before his immigration to Medina, the Angel Gabriel woke Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to bring him to Jerusalem for the even of Isra and Miraj (ascension into heaven), Sura 53:1-18 Angel Gabriel brought a special animal, the Boraq, for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to make the journey, Deut 33:17, “His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of E’phra-im, and they are the thousands of Ma-nas’seh.” Boraq means lightning in both Hebrew and Arabic which is much faster than the speed of sound. In the Jerusalem Temple, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) led all the prophets who were sent before him, in prayer. After the prayer, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was raised by Angel Gabriel through the seven levels of heaven, where he saw Angel Gabriel in his true form, not in his human image.
It was also here that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), through Angel Gabriel, made his great covenant with God (Allah). He was then returned to Jerusalem, and using the Boraq, returned to Makkah. This miracle occurred all in one night. Prophet Abraham (pbuh) was allowed to use the Boraq to visit his son Ishmael (pbuh) in Makkah. These two Prophets were the only ones that ever used that special animal. The Jews also believe that Prophet Abraham (pbuh) was allowed to use the Boraq.
Next morning after the great miracle, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) told the event to the people of Makkah. Some did not believe this story and asked him for proof. He told the people that on his way to Jerusalem, he saw a caravan returning to Makkah and drank from its water. On his way back from Jerusalem to Makkah, Prophet Muhammad guided the same caravan with his voice to find a lost camel. He also told them that this caravan will enter Makkah in 15 days. The caravan did reach Makkah in 15 days. He told them the caravan would arrive at sunrise and the leading camel (Al Auraq), which he described, would be at a place called Altaneem. When the caravan arrived, the people of Makkah asked many questions of those in the caravan. They said that 15 days earlier, someone had drank their water and a voice had guided them to find their lost camel. Because of this proof, some of the people accepted Islam.
You can download this book in pdf format for free here.
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jack_hawkins
Guest
I take it this is the infamous “night journey”, which you know full well is not a physical journey but the results of the fevered imagination of “Muhammad” most likely.
Was “Muhammad” physically present in Jerusalem? NO!
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cestusdei
Guest
If Solomon overheard them then the ants must have been speaking as we do and in Hebrew. Otherwise he would not have heard or understood them. So I await scientific evidence of ants who speak out loud and in Hebrew. In fairness I will accept an ant who speaks Yiddish. You can’t get more fair then that.
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jack_hawkins
Guest
let’s look at ham’s latest cut and paste re embryology, remembering the previous comments about the Koran namely that even if the “science” in the Koran were correct, albeit with ham’s provisos that the Koran is not a science textbook (despite trying to prove that is) and that Arabic is so difficult to translate, it does not A) prove a supernatural influence B) prove that the supernatural influence was the devil rather than God:
this word can mean
leech
blood clot
suspended “thing”
clearly ham cannot make up his mind which of these it is, as he demonstrates how any one of these could be true!!! which shows the weakness of his argument
the idea of comparing the “chewed substance” with an embryo with somites is truly ludicrous
Prof Moore’s remarks are worded carefully and in any case one guy’s opinion is meaningless. there are many many academics who disagree that the Koran has correct embryological details
so like the rest of your Koranic pseudoscience, this is codswallop!
this word can mean
leech
blood clot
suspended “thing”
clearly ham cannot make up his mind which of these it is, as he demonstrates how any one of these could be true!!! which shows the weakness of his argument
the idea of comparing the “chewed substance” with an embryo with somites is truly ludicrous
Prof Moore’s remarks are worded carefully and in any case one guy’s opinion is meaningless. there are many many academics who disagree that the Koran has correct embryological details
so like the rest of your Koranic pseudoscience, this is codswallop!
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Rachel_Malloy
Guest
Let’s back off the personal attacks, and cutting remarks. If you find you cannot participate in this discussion charitably and intellectually, please refrain from posting.
Thank you and God bless-
Rachel
Thank you and God bless-
Rachel
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jack_hawkins
Guest
Ok, how about an end to cut and paste from Muslim propaganda sites tho Rachel?
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Verisimilitude
Guest
The truth of anything is dependent upon the veracity of the witnesses who brings a claim of truth about anything. Islam is dependent solely upon Muhammed, since only Muhammed is speaking for Allah through revelations from Gabriel, and such truth is recorded in the Qur’an. Let’s leave aside the Hadith for the moment.
Any and all claims you (Muslims) make to support the truth of your faith rests on the shoulders of Muhammed alone as a reliable witness. In any court of law, much less the founder of a faith like Islam, a witness must be shown to be honorable, trustworthy, and without deceit. Would you agree?
For if a witness was found to have been with deceit, not trustworthy, and without honor, taking their word as truth about what they claim is illogical; particularly when the claim cannot be verified in any other way. Would you agree?
I have a simple question for you. If you found that Muhammed was a liar, was untrustworthy, and was deceitfull in some of his actions- would that make a difference to you and your faith in Islam?
I can say for my faith, that if Jesus was found to be any of those things it would make a huge difference to me. In fact, If Jesus was untrustworthy in even the smallest of things, if He ever uttered a lie, and if he acted deceitfully against others I would suspect everything He said no matter how good His maxims. If He were proven untrustworthy in the small things, how much more the big things?
Can you say the same for Muhammed and Islam? I have not pointed to any particular circumstance in Muhammeds life or Quranic verse, for that might be a later debate, but only the ideological question of would you take the word of someone understood to be untrustworthy.
That I think is the test for truth of a religion.
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hamba2han
Guest
The Honesty and Trustworthiness of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) proved by his living example that he was the most truthful and honest person of his age. He was a poor orphan who had started trading with his uncle, but in a very short time, owing to his honest and fair dealings with all people, he became well-known and respected. Every Makkan, rich or poor, knew him as As-Sadiq (the Truthful) and Al-Amin (the Trustworthy). When Muhammad was yet a young man, the Ka
Once the chiefs of the Quraysh were sitting and talking about him. An-Nadar ibn al-Harith, the most experienced of them all, said, “O Quraysh! You have not been able to find any plan to meet the calamity that has fallen upon you. Muhammad grew up from childhood in your presence. He was the most liked, honest and faithful among you. Now when he has grown to maturity and has presented these things to you, you say, he is a magician, a soothsayer, a poet, a mad man. By Allah! I have heard his Message, he is none of these things. A new calamity has fallen upon you.”
The Prophet once gathered together all the people of the Quraysh near Mount Safa and asked them, “O Quraysh! If I say that an army is advancing on you from behind the mountains, will you believe me?” All said in one voice, “Yes, because we have never heard you telling a lie.” All the people of Makkah, without any exception, swore to his truthfulness and honesty, for he had lived an unblemished and extremely pious life among them for forty years. Yet most of them still refused to accept him as the Messenger of Allah.
He had lived his whole life in purity and virtue among them, and even his staunchest enemies acknowledged this. They knew that he was the most honest and truthful person among them. The Holy Qur’an, therefore, appealed to them to look at his life and try to understand. How could he tell lies against Allah, when he did not tell lies against human beings!
When the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius received a letter from the Prophet inviting him and his people to Islam, he called the Arab traders who were then visiting his country. He asked Abu Sufyan, their leader, “Did you ever find Muhammad telling a lie before his claim to Prophethood?” He replied that he had not. Then Heraclius said, “I asked you if he had ever told a lie and you replied that he had not. I am sure, if he had spoken unjustly against Allah, he would not have abstained from speaking falsely against human-beings.” Heraclius then questioned him about the Prophet’s general behavior and conduct with people. Abu Sufyan replied, “Muhammad is nobly born, is honest and truthful, and has never broken a pledge. He enjoins his followers to worship none but One God and to pray to Him alone. He preaches kindness, piety and tolerance towards all and his followers are on the increase.”
The pagans of Makkah, though they rejected Muhammad’s call to Islam, still trusted none but him with their belongings when they traveled. When the Prophet finally escaped Makkah for Madinah, he asked his cousin `Ali to stay behind to return the pledges he was keeping. Trustworthy to all, he wouldn’t keep even a penny’s worth of his enemies’ property.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) proved by his living example that he was the most truthful and honest person of his age. He was a poor orphan who had started trading with his uncle, but in a very short time, owing to his honest and fair dealings with all people, he became well-known and respected. Every Makkan, rich or poor, knew him as As-Sadiq (the Truthful) and Al-Amin (the Trustworthy). When Muhammad was yet a young man, the Ka
bah was rebuilt. A dispute arose among the various tribes of Makkah as to who should have the honor of laying the Black Stone in its place in the Kabah. They decided that the first one to enter the Ka`bah the next morning would settle the dispute. Muhammad was the first to enter that morning and when the people saw him, they were all very happy that Al-Amin and As-Sadiq had come and would be the one to decide. He put the Black Stone on a cloth so that every tribe could hold the cloth and help to lift the stone, which he then set in place.Once the chiefs of the Quraysh were sitting and talking about him. An-Nadar ibn al-Harith, the most experienced of them all, said, “O Quraysh! You have not been able to find any plan to meet the calamity that has fallen upon you. Muhammad grew up from childhood in your presence. He was the most liked, honest and faithful among you. Now when he has grown to maturity and has presented these things to you, you say, he is a magician, a soothsayer, a poet, a mad man. By Allah! I have heard his Message, he is none of these things. A new calamity has fallen upon you.”
The Prophet once gathered together all the people of the Quraysh near Mount Safa and asked them, “O Quraysh! If I say that an army is advancing on you from behind the mountains, will you believe me?” All said in one voice, “Yes, because we have never heard you telling a lie.” All the people of Makkah, without any exception, swore to his truthfulness and honesty, for he had lived an unblemished and extremely pious life among them for forty years. Yet most of them still refused to accept him as the Messenger of Allah.
He had lived his whole life in purity and virtue among them, and even his staunchest enemies acknowledged this. They knew that he was the most honest and truthful person among them. The Holy Qur’an, therefore, appealed to them to look at his life and try to understand. How could he tell lies against Allah, when he did not tell lies against human beings!
When the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius received a letter from the Prophet inviting him and his people to Islam, he called the Arab traders who were then visiting his country. He asked Abu Sufyan, their leader, “Did you ever find Muhammad telling a lie before his claim to Prophethood?” He replied that he had not. Then Heraclius said, “I asked you if he had ever told a lie and you replied that he had not. I am sure, if he had spoken unjustly against Allah, he would not have abstained from speaking falsely against human-beings.” Heraclius then questioned him about the Prophet’s general behavior and conduct with people. Abu Sufyan replied, “Muhammad is nobly born, is honest and truthful, and has never broken a pledge. He enjoins his followers to worship none but One God and to pray to Him alone. He preaches kindness, piety and tolerance towards all and his followers are on the increase.”
The pagans of Makkah, though they rejected Muhammad’s call to Islam, still trusted none but him with their belongings when they traveled. When the Prophet finally escaped Makkah for Madinah, he asked his cousin `Ali to stay behind to return the pledges he was keeping. Trustworthy to all, he wouldn’t keep even a penny’s worth of his enemies’ property.
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cestusdei
Guest
Those who didn’t care for him or trust him he had killed. Poets, Jews, political opponents etc. You had to like him or else.
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LilyM
Guest
actually ces, if we came across one that spoke Aramaic we’d probably have to allow that too …
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Sixtus
Guest
By how much they love both their God and their neighbour
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hamba2han
Guest
The Prophet Solomon (peace be upon him) was gifted with the knowledge of understanding the speech of birds, animals and insects.
For those who are mocking that this is written in the Qur’an, do you also not believe that there were talking serpents in the Garden of Eden as found in your own Bible?
For those who are mocking that this is written in the Qur’an, do you also not believe that there were talking serpents in the Garden of Eden as found in your own Bible?
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Steadfast
Guest
Thus far Fundamentalism:
- Assert the truth and inerrancy of your evidences.
- Defy rebuttal.
- When counter-evidence is offered, explain it away, usually ending with a return to 1.
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cestusdei
Guest
We actually have a variety of ways to read scripture, including allegory. But you say Solomon could understand antspeak. That presumes he could hear what they were saying, right? There had to be a verbal language. If the quran is so scientific then you should be able to give evidence from science that shows people can understand what ants say. Remember you are the one who is trying to show us how scientific the quran is. So prove it to me and you might make a convert.
Look guy, even if you don’t get it everyone else here does. By asking these questions I am showing what a farce your method of proving the quran is to us. You are just making yourself look foolish by talking about clouds and ants and whatnot. I think you are going to have to try something else. But you are not convincing anyone. I just thought I would tell you.
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hamba2han
Guest
“If indeed it was a mistake, then Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) surely would have corrected it there and then but obviously it was not a mistake and it was he himself who explained to those asking what this verse meant.”
For a clearer idea of what I really meant to say, this sentence should read as:
If indeed it was an oversight on his part, then Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) surely would have corrected it there and then but obviously it was not an oversight and it was he himself who explained to those asking what this verse meant.
For a clearer idea of what I really meant to say, this sentence should read as:
If indeed it was an oversight on his part, then Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) surely would have corrected it there and then but obviously it was not an oversight and it was he himself who explained to those asking what this verse meant.
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