R
RuthAnne
Guest
It sounds to me like a justification for supporting evil. Period.
- Status
L
LoveMercyGrace
Guest
If I choose to let the world define for me right or wrong, good or evil, then this would be difficult. I just noted an article on UCCSB website , Forming Consciences For Faithful Citizenship
Worthy of a read, and I will later. It may be helpful in discerning the right course to take. Peace
Worthy of a read, and I will later. It may be helpful in discerning the right course to take. Peace
R
RuthAnne
Guest
Yeah, I’d still feel better that I did not cast a vote for evil.
Last edited:
P
phil19034
Guest
Yes, my view is 100% in line with their document.
P
phil19034
Guest
See, I guess that’s where you I differ. I don’t see it as casting a vote FOR evil. I see it as casting a vote AGAINST evil.phil19034:
Yeah, I’d still feel better that I did not cast a vote for evil.
I’m not voting FOR the lesser evil. I’m voting AGAINST the greater evil.
Because abortion is the greatest evil on the planet. We must be voting against abortion every time.
L
LoveMercyGrace
Guest
And… prayer. the most important thing. being still in prayer.
R
RuthAnne
Guest
So you would not cast a vote for the lesser evil? Just curious, what does an “against” ballot look like?
Last edited:
P
phil19034
Guest
@RuthAnne - my position is completely within bounds of Catholic Teaching. I am NOT condoning the heretical seamless blanket theory or any other position that goes against traditional Catholic moral teaching.phil19034:
So you would not cast a vote for the lesser evil? Just curious, what does an “against” ballot look like?
My position is pretty simple. I vote pro-life. And if there is no pro-life candidate, will vote for the candidate who does not favor expanding abortion. If the candidates are both equally evil when it comes to abortion, then I will look at other grave evils to see if one is “safer” than the other.
But I will NEVER campaign for them, support them, etc.
Regarding your “vote against ballot” comment/question - I’m sure you are well aware that the ballot looks the same. What differs is the internal motive & what I do. Casting a vote in the direction of Candidate B doesn’t mean I have to support that person. I would be pushing for a Pro-Life person to primary against that candidate, etc.
When you “support” a candidate, you work to make sure they win their reelection primary, etc. When you vote against the greater evil, you work to primary against the lesser evil.
Last edited:
R
RuthAnne
Guest
So you would vote for evil but you don’t support evil?
S
SeekSalvation
Guest
I never vote for anyone who pushes, promotes, and supports abortion. I will ‘write in’ a candidate name, if possible, else I will not vote at all.
Last edited:
P
phil19034
Guest
@RuthAnne - if you disagree with me, after I have said that my position lines up with TRADITIONAL Catholic teaching on the subject, not the heretical single garment theory, would you care to explain which Church documents claim that I’m incorrect?
Catholic Morality is based on three points:
- The Object or thing being done is good
- The end or intention for doing it is good
- The Circumstances are also taken into account are fitting
- The object or thing being done: voting AGAINST the expansion of abortion
- My intention for doing what I’m doing is good - I’m trying to limit abortion
- The Circumstances are also fitting because in my circumstance, if I do not vote for the lesser evil, I risk the greater evil being elected.
The problem that some people get into is when they refuse to weigh sins/evil or when they treat all sins/evil as equal. They are not. Yes, all mortal sins lead to hell, but some sins/evil are worse than others. Abortion, being among worse sins/evil committed by man.
R
RuthAnne
Guest
I’m just pointing out that you are choosing to support evil, regardless of whether it’s less evil than other evils. You basically said that you would vote for a person, Candidate B, who was pro choice. I made no judgment about it. If you choose to vote for evil, whatever your reason, that’s up to you. I personally cannot vote for that kind of evil. That’s up to me.
Last edited:
P
phil19034
Guest
According to the Church, I am not supporting evil. I am objecting your to view that I’m “supporting evil,”
I am not.
Last edited:
R
RuthAnne
Guest
A vote for evil sounds like support of evil to me but maybe my thinking is off.
L
LoveMercyGrace
Guest
Thought about this since we all posted.
What would most offend God.
not voting . for any pro choice canidate altogether, which may mean I will not vote.
or assisting in the murder of lives.
Yes, this is the real choice here.
What would most offend God.
not voting . for any pro choice canidate altogether, which may mean I will not vote.
or assisting in the murder of lives.
Yes, this is the real choice here.
P
phil19034
Guest
OK, but that’s not what the Church teaches about voting.
The Church teaches that people with the right to vote need to exercise that vote to promote the COMMON GOOD. When you abstain from voting, you are choosing your own personal feelings over the common good.
The Church expects us to use the intellect that God gave us to help make the world a better place.
When you abstain from voting, you are turning your back on the world and NOT helping to make it better.
Sometimes, to make the world a better place, we have to take baby steps with very flawed leaders. I think this is the reason God choose men like Noah, King Saul, King David, King Solomon, St. Peter, St. Matthew, St Timothy, Judas (as an example of what not to do), St Paul, etc.
The world is not perfect, but what matters is what we do with it.
Not voting is a refusal to work with the leaders our country has to make it a better place. And that goes against Catholic social teaching.
E
Elf01
Guest
How about running yourself if there really is no candidate you feel you can morally vote for?
Last edited:
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
Take it out of rhetoric and put skin on it. Do you know any people with Down’s? Any people with cleft pallette or clubbed feet?
Do you know people with dwarfism? I do, I am a person with a severely crippling form of dwarfism. I know dozens and dozens of people with all sorts of dwarfism.
Do you know anyone with muscular dystrophy?
Well, the elephant party is okay with me being aborted. With any person you’ve met with a genetic deformity being aborted.
Once I came to that cold hard truth, I resigned from that party and from their associated PACs, etc.
It is far too personal for me.
Do you know people with dwarfism? I do, I am a person with a severely crippling form of dwarfism. I know dozens and dozens of people with all sorts of dwarfism.
Do you know anyone with muscular dystrophy?
Well, the elephant party is okay with me being aborted. With any person you’ve met with a genetic deformity being aborted.
Once I came to that cold hard truth, I resigned from that party and from their associated PACs, etc.
It is far too personal for me.
P
phil19034
Guest
I’m sorry, but which Republican politicians are ok with this? Can you please name them?
I’m not arguing with you, I’m honestly asking. Besides the legitimate pro-choice Republicans, I’m not aware of Republicans pushing the position you are claiming.
Now, that doesn’t mean that it wasn’t that way in the past, but the Republican Party is becoming more & more pro-life as the Catholics have been able to convince more Protestants that abortion is always wrong.
Last edited:
- Status