How would a country completely based on the Social Kingship of Jesus Christ would be?

[HarryStotle]

Catholic Theocracy, YEET.

I give up on American politics.
Pope Francis take the wheel.

He is having enough problems with financial corruption at the tiny Vatican See (pop ~1000) and with moral corruption among priests and bishops in various parts of the world. I wouldn’t think running a nation of 320 million is within his range of competency.

 

[HarryStotle]

niceatheist:

Like I said, such a state sounds like a nightmare to a non believer

Perhaps you could start your own thread of what it would be like if a country removed all it’s Christians and what benefits an atheist would then enjoy. What do you think that would look like?

There have been many self-declared atheist regimes in history. The results have never been pretty.

 

[niceatheist]

Even Iran, awful theocracy as it is, actually allows women to pursue careers as they choose.

As usual, theocrats end up demonstrating the tyranny that is the core of their governance model.

 

[HarryStotle]

Even Iran, awful theocracy as it is, actually allows women to pursue careers as they choose.

As usual, theocrats end up demonstrating the tyranny that is the core of their governance model.

Actually, a theocracy is not inherently tyrannical. That is borne out by the fact that the Kingdom of Heaven (Kingdom of God) has a King as its eternal head. The one elusive point that you may be missing is that the Kingdom of Heaven is not of this earth, it has eternal sanction and grounds for governance.

The reason for it not being tyrannical by its very nature is that the Kingdom of Heaven respects human free will – tied as it is to the infinite freedom of God – and, therefore, rule isn’t imposed from above – which is the feature of all earthly governments, including democracies – it is accepted in freedom by those who are truly free. At some level all earthly governments have to impose authority upon those who dissent. The best of which permit some modicum of freedom. The Kingdom of Heaven is simply the eternal manifestation of God’s infinite freedom.

As such, the Kingdom of Heaven is entirely volitional by its very nature. Unfortunately some exclude themselves by their very own tyrannical outlook and enslavement mentality – they do not permit truth and goodness to instantiate perfectly but prefer something else – selfishness, lust, vice, etc., – to do so.

 

[niceatheist]

If an ideal Catholic state forces education based on gender and not on gifts and aspirations, then it has crossed the line into tyranny.

 

[imo]

Why this is so different then today’s scheme, when all children has the same mandatory education? Except for the gender differene, you have a forced education to everyone. How this is not tyrannical? Only gender segregation is tyrinnical? Forced education isn’t?

 

[niceatheist]

No one told my daughter she should go into some glorified home ec course. What you are saying is that her pursuit of a university degree in biological sciences is wrong because she had a uterus. I find that, frankly, tyrannical, and stupid and shortsighted

 

[imo]

If you disregard the doctrine of Church, the commandmends and tradition, maybe. Of course, a Catholic State wouldn’t be loved by an atheist.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

That aspect is not really part of Church tradition.

 

[imo]

And also: taking care of your home and family is not degrading, it is the most honourable and wonderful vocation possible, except maybe for a nun’s life.

 

[niceatheist]

Or maybe for some women curing cancer is more rewarding. To ignore someone’s actual gifts in favor of some perverse idealization based upon gender stereotypes is a state that abhors and fears creativity and human spirit.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

A women should be able to choose what type of life she wants and there is no obligation to become married and be a mother. And even if she is a mother, there is no impediment to working as long as there is prudence in the schedule.

 

[niceatheist]

So right away we see this Catholic state won’t represent or be governed by all Catholics, but will be a traditionalist state. I doubt many Catholics would even want to live under such a government

 

[imo]

Yes, it is based on the Social Kingshipf of Jesus Christ, a concept “formalized” by Benedict XI, so yes pre-Vatican II Catholicism current, if you will.

 

[imo]

Please, tell me where I said she will be obligated to anything. Quote for me, please.

 

[whatistrue]

punishments and atrocities that could never exist in a Catholic social order.

You mean like torture to extract confessions of heresy and burning at the stake? Those kinds of atrocities? Nope not possible at all with Catholics in charge.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

You’re right, but saying vague statements that don’t answer directly like

And also: taking care of your home and family is not degrading, it is the most honourable and wonderful vocation possible, except maybe for a nun’s life.

or

If you disregard the doctrine of Church, the commandmends and tradition, maybe. Of course, a Catholic State wouldn’t be loved by an atheist.

create an amibiguity that can be misinterpreted, so it’s best to clarify when someone takes it the wrong way.

 

[imo]

Clarifying: in my view of a Catholic State, women would be able to study and work whatever the want, however they would be encouraged to stay home and take care of their families. Mandatory education would be partially diferent for boys and girls, with girls education having a stronger domestic vector, besides the usual science/history/math/languages curriculum.

Is it clear?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Yes, that is clear, thank you.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

punishments and atrocities that could never exist in a Catholic social order.

Touché.

Yes, it has happened. I wouldn’t want to see it happen again.

Say what you will, modern means of instantaneous social communication, the ability of anyone with a smartphone to record anything that happens and have the video go viral in hours, a vigorous free press that reflects all viewpoints, can be and often is a great force for good. I would like to think that these things, in a Catholic social order, would quickly bring any potential fascistic abuses to light.

Would the clerical sexual abuse phenomenon ever have been exposed without the press and modern social communication? Does anyone think there are people who wish those forms of communication didn’t exist? Heat and light can be very antiseptic. It’s not the dioceses, nor the Vatican, that have put together all of these websites that list all of the known offenders, what they did, where they did it, and puts it out there for the whole world to see. It’s independent online journalists and writers. I’m glad we live in a world where this is possible.