How would we enforce new abortion laws?

[Hope_Philomena]

True, bedroom behavior is not something that can be a matter of legislation. Nevertheless, until 1930, the entire Christian world, Protestant as well as Catholic, had the same prohibition on contraception as what is now considered to be just a Catholic doctrine.

From the reformation until 1930, every Protestant denomination had the exact same teaching on contraception as the Catholic Church. The doctrine has been continuous in the Catholic Church for 2000 years, and was continuous in the Protestant denominations for 400 years, until the Lambeth Conference of 1930, which allowed for it only in exceptional cases.

With all of Christianity united not only on contraception but on sexual morality, the demand for abortion was naturally quite low. But once Anglicanism accepted contraception even in limited cases, it soon became a widespread defection from historic Christian doctrine.

That enabled the sexual revolution, which drove the need for abortion. As long as contraception is accepted, I don’t see abortion ever going away.

From the founding of the United States until 1919/1920, not all women were given the right to vote.

Not all traditions, morals, etc. are meant to be kept, so I don’t think that’s a logical point to cite.

 

[mikekle]

The laws are already in place, one good example is when a person kills a pregnant woman, they are charged with 2 COUNTS OF MURDER, usually in the first degree.

For a murder charge to be imposed, it must be legally recognized as a ‘human life’, so the state already recognizes the unborn as a real human life.(but they only want to recognize it as a life when it suits their needs or is beneficial to them). that is the problem.

 

[peter26]

Its very simple really: natural law, God’s law, trumps the law of man. The Supreme Court is not really the highest court, there are higher courts, and a law of man that contravenes the law of God is of no real value. Abortion is illegal. Always will be. Because it violates God’s law.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

Its very simple really: natural law, God’s law, trumps the law of man. The Supreme Court is not really the highest court, there are higher courts, and a law of man that contravenes the law of God is of no real value. Abortion is illegal. Always will be. Because it violates God’s law.

But the reality is it’s legal and we need to change the courts wrong decision

 

[RCinMT]

Not all traditions, morals, etc. are meant to be kept, so I don’t think that’s a logical point to cite.

In the Catholic church, the teachings of the Bible are “traditions and morals” that are meant to be kept in perpetuity. The truth claims of Christianity in general and the Church in particular lose meaning–eventually undermining the entire Christian tradition and all claims made by it–when teachings and/or doctrine change to accommodate contemporary society.

 

[Hope_Philomena]

In the Catholic church, the teachings of the Bible are “traditions and morals” that are meant to be kept in perpetuity. The truth claims of Christianity in general and the Church in particular lose meaning–eventually undermining the entire Christian tradition and all claims made by it–when teachings and/or doctrine change to accommodate contemporary society.

To say that traditions are meant to be kept in perpetuity is a falsehood. The Second Vatican Council, for instance, modified many traditions and halted others. Everything changes with society, and for you to try to act like the Church has been and will be the same forevermore, and for you to act like it’s wrong for adjustments with society to take place, then you are merely living a lie.

 

[Elf01]

In the Catholic church, the teachings of the Bible are “traditions and morals” that are meant to be kept in perpetuity.

Emphasis is mine.

To say that traditions are meant to be kept in perpetuity is a falsehood. The Second Vatican Council, for instance, modified many traditions and halted others. Everything changes with society, and for you to try to act like the Church has been and will be the same forevermore, and for you to act like it’s wrong for adjustments with society to take place, then you are merely living a lie.

In the Catholic Church there is the concept of Sacred Tradition. This is part of the deposit of faith and cannot change.

There are also traditions that do not form part of the deposit of faith. These can change. These are the types of traditions changed at the Second Vatican Council.

The fundamental teachings of the Church cannot change or it would mean that the gates of hell had prevailed.

 

[Hope_Philomena]

In the Catholic Church there is the concept of Sacred Tradition. This is part of the deposit of faith and cannot change.

There are also traditions that do not form part of the deposit of faith. These can change. These are the types of traditions changed at the Second Vatican Council.

The fundamental teachings of the Church cannot change or it would mean that the gates of hell had prevailed.

Also important to point out is that Protestant denominations mostly do not use Sacred Tradition.

 

[RCinMT]

To say that traditions are meant to be kept in perpetuity is a falsehood. The Second Vatican Council, for instance, modified many traditions and halted others. Everything changes with society, and for you to try to act like the Church has been and will be the same forevermore, and for you to act like it’s wrong for adjustments with society to take place, then you are merely living a lie.

No, it’s not. Traditions and morals formed from the techings of the Bible are to be kept in perpetuity.

 

[Hope_Philomena]

No, it’s not. Traditions and morals formed from the techings of the Bible are to be kept in perpetuity.

And abortion is not mentioned once in the Bible, so whether it is considered murder or not is not a teaching. It’s an assumption by the Church, not a sacred tradition.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

I’d assume the first step would be shutting down an official medical facilities that currently perform abortions. Doctors found to break the law would face hefty fines and/or jail time.

 

[po18guy]

How about not making laws? Roe V Wade is under the 14th amendment so a woman has the right to choose.

But a man does not. Is that fair? After all, 50% of the DNA is his. Why not de-criminalize murder? It is rampant anyway, and incarceration costs are soaring. Society would (eventually) be much more genteel if murder was legal.

 

[Hope_Philomena]

But a man does not. Is that fair? After all, 50% of the DNA is his. Why not de-criminalize murder? It is rampant anyway, and incarceration costs are soaring. Society would (eventually) be much more genteel if murder was legal.

…Because he doesn’t have to carry it around in his stomach for nine months? He doesn’t go through the physical and emotional pains of pregnancy and labor? Don’t even bother saying that men feel emotional pain as well; that does not even compare.

What a ridiculous point to even attempt to make.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

And abortion is not mentioned once in the Bible, so whether it is considered murder or not is not a teaching. It’s an assumption by the Church, not a sacred tradition.

“For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.”** Psalm 139: 13**

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Jeremiah 1:5

34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”
38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.** Luke 1:34-38**

"You have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’"Matthew 5:21

How God feels on this subject is really not up for debate at all. No, it does not spell out the specific sin of abortion. HOWEVER, it is very clear that God considers children still in the womb to be tiny persons that he already has plans for, not a bundle of cells. Put that together with “thou shalt not murder” and it becomes clear that abortion is wrong because that is already a person the mother is carrying.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

“For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.”** Psalm 139: 13**

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Jeremiah 1:5

34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”
38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.** Luke 1:34-38**

"You have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’"Matthew 5:21

How God feels on this subject is really not up for debate at all. No, it does not spell out the specific sin of abortion. HOWEVER, it is very clear that God considers children still in the womb to be tiny persons that he already has plans for, not a bundle of cells. Put that together with “thou shalt not murder” and it becomes clear that abortion is wrong because that is already a person the mother is carrying.

Agree

 

[RCinMT]

…Because he doesn’t have to carry it around in his stomach for nine months? He doesn’t go through the physical and emotional pains of pregnancy and labor? Don’t even bother saying that men feel emotional pain as well; that does not even compare.

What a ridiculous point to even attempt to make.

Pain? So that’s what this is all about is avoidance of emotional and physical pain? What does it mean to be a Christian?

Gethsemane, scourging at the pillar, crowing with thorns, carrying the cross and the crucifixion. Either Christ was a sucker or we have priorities out of whack. You’ll never know pain or suffering.

And referring to a baby as “it” is highly offensive. It’s dehumanizing language, kind of like referring to other people as animals or as “people” (in quotes).

 

[Hope_Philomena]

Pain? So that’s what this is all about is avoidance of emotional and physical pain? What does it mean to be a Christian?

Gethsemane, scourging at the pillar, crowing with thorns, carrying the cross and the crucifixion. Either Christ was a sucker or we have priorities out of whack. You’ll never know pain or suffering.

And referring to a baby as “it” is highly offensive. It’s dehumanizing language, kind of like referring to other people as animals or as “people” (in quotes).

No, that’s NOT what this is all about, stop taking everything out of context please.

The poster was suggesting that men should have the right to choose what a woman does with her unborn child under Roe v. Wade. Because it is half of his DNA. As if that’s a valid reason. He does not carry the child so why would he, under Roe V. Wade, have any legal say in the matter?

“It” is offensive? What happened to the pronoun issue being considered ridiculous by everyone on here? I don’t know the gender of every baby, thus the baby is an it or a they or a she/he to me. Stop being overly sensitive and searching for any points in my diction that you can warp to fit your narrative.

My half-sister is pregnant, she doesn’t know her baby’s gender yet as they want it to be a surprise. She calls the baby “my baby” or “it”. How DARE she?

 

[Hope_Philomena]

“For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.”** Psalm 139: 13**

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Jeremiah 1:5

34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”
38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.** Luke 1:34-38**

"You have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’"Matthew 5:21

How God feels on this subject is really not up for debate at all. No, it does not spell out the specific sin of abortion. HOWEVER, it is very clear that God considers children still in the womb to be tiny persons that he already has plans for, not a bundle of cells. Put that together with “thou shalt not murder” and it becomes clear that abortion is wrong because that is already a person the mother is carrying.

Show me the word “abortion” in the Bible. Because verses that do not explicitly mention something will be interpreted differently by every single denomination and thus hold no weight in this argument. None of them mention abortion. None of them. They say not to murder, and humans are the ones who have made the abortion connection based on other scriptural verses.

Not once is abortion mentioned, as I said.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

No, that’s NOT what this is all about, stop taking everything out of context please.

The poster was suggesting that men should have the right to choose what a woman does with her unborn child under Roe v. Wade. Because it is half of his DNA. As if that’s a valid reason. He does not carry the child so why would he, under Roe V. Wade, have any legal say in the matter?

“It” is offensive? What happened to the pronoun issue being considered ridiculous by everyone on here? I don’t know the gender of every baby, thus the baby is an it or a they or a she/he to me. Stop being overly sensitive.

Tend to agree with this.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

Show me the word “abortion” in the Bible. Because verses that do not explicitly mention something will be interpreted differently by every single denomination and thus hold no weight in this argument. None of them mention abortion. None of them. They say not to murder, and humans are the ones who have made the abortion connection based on other scriptural verses.

Not once is abortion mentioned, as I said.

Strongly disagree, where does it say specifically that killing is wrong? Everywhere in the bible.