How would we enforce new abortion laws?

[PRmerger]

I am not a lawyer nor do I know why it was determined in that way.

You need to examine your views and make sure they’re coherent, regardless of your profession.

Right now, you hold a position that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.

 

[PRmerger]

Actually no you don’t get to tell a woman anything about her body.

So, I presume, you agree with the pre-1960’s concept that you don’t get to tell a white man anything about what he can do in his home? And that includes if he wants to beat his wife?

The difference is, by the ruling, a zygote isn’t a person whereas an adult is.

So that prompts the question: what makes someone a person?

You said at one time it was when someone could breathe. But that rules out someone who’s on a ventilator. And someone could kill you, morally, when you’re under anesthesia.

And that would also mean that rats and other rodents are persons because they can…breathe independently.

Please define in a cogent manner what makes someone a person.

 

[NM505StKate]

So, I presume, you agree with the pre-1960’s concept that you don’t get to tell a white man anything about what he can do in his home? And that includes if he wants to beat his wife?

So that prompts the question: what makes someone a person?

You said at one time it was when someone could breathe. But that rules out someone who’s on a ventilator. And someone could kill you, morally, when you’re under anesthesia.

And that would also mean that rats and other rodents are persons because they can…breathe independently.

Please define in a cogent manner what makes someone a person.

I don’t know what makes someone a person by way of this ruling.

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t know what makes someone a person by way of this ruling.

How do you determine whether someone is a human person or not?

You have stated that you don’t believe a zygote is.

When does this organism become a human person then?

 

[NM505StKate]

How do you determine whether someone is a human person or not?

You have stated that you don’t believe a zygote is.

When does this organism become a human person then?

When there is thought and personality but that is only my opinion. I would say, myself, that the zygote becomes a human around the third trimester.

 

[PRmerger]

When there is thought and personality but that is only my opinion. I would say, myself, that the zygote becomes a human around the third trimester.

That means that dogs, who have thought and personality are human persons, Kate.

Are you sure that’s what you want to declare?

And that would also mean that a person under anesthesia is not a human person.

Are you sure you want to say that when you’re under anesthesia a person could kill you and it would be perfectly moral, because, hey, you’re not thinking and you have no personality.

Also, how do you know that the entity in the womb in the 3rd trimester can think and has personality?

And that in the 2nd trimester it doesn’t?

 

[PRmerger]

When there is thought and personality but that is only my opinion. I would say, myself, that the zygote becomes a human around the third trimester.

And how is that any more arbitrary than saying: it’s my opinion that when we can discern hair color, and that it’s blond, that it becomes a human person?

 

[NM505StKate]

That means that dogs, who have thought and personality are human persons, Kate.

Are you sure that’s what you want to declare?

And that would also mean that a person under anesthesia is not a human person.

Are you sure you want to say that when you’re under anesthesia a person could kill you and it would be perfectly moral, because, hey, you’re not thinking and you have no personality.

Also, how do you know that the entity in the womb in the 3rd trimester can think and has personality?

And that in the 2nd trimester it doesn’t?

Personally I don’t know if the second trimester the fetus can think or has a personality. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn’t. Also I am not certain someone under anesthesia isn’t “thinking”. You may not have personality or can’t express it at the time but you are thinking.

 

[NM505StKate]

And how is that any more arbitrary than saying: it’s my opinion that when we can discern hair color, and that it’s blond, that it becomes a human person?

Because it is my opinion. The ruling is what it comes down to.

 

[PRmerger]

Personally I don’t know if the second trimester the fetus can think or has a personality.

Well, if you don’t know, then the moral thing to do is err on the side that it may be a human person, by your very own criteria.

An analogy: you’re hunting in the woods for a bear. You see a shadow. It may be a human person, but you’re not sure. No moral person would say: go ahead and shoot, since you’re not sure if it’s a person. Rather, all moral people say: I wouldn’t shoot, just in case it’s a human person.

 

[PRmerger]

Because it is my opinion. The ruling is what it comes down to.

Opinions need to be justified.

Otherwise,they’re blind opinions.

And as immoral as someone saying, “I believe homosexuals have no souls, but that’s just my opinion.”

 

[PRmerger]

Personally I don’t know if the second trimester the fetus can think or has a personality. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn’t. Also I am not certain someone under anesthesia isn’t “thinking”.

Incidentally, since you can’t know if 1st trimester organisms can “think” and “have personality”, again, the prudent thing to do is err on the side of “it’s a human person” and not permit its killing.

So you essentially have argued yourself out of endorsing abortion any time after conception.

You may not have personality or can’t express it at the time but you are thinking.

Nope. You’re not thinking when you’re under anestheisa, Kate.

And even then, by your own admission, you do “not have personality”, so in your moral world, you could be killed while you’re undergoing major surgery.

 

[NM505StKate]

Opinions need to be justified.

Otherwise,they’re blind opinions.

And as immoral as someone saying, “I believe homosexuals have no souls, but that’s just my opinion.”

I would only say prove that a soul exists. A better immoral statement is “I believe homosexuals are not people, but that is just my opinion.”. Souls aren’t a moral worry.

 

[PRmerger]

Actually no you don’t get to tell a woman anything about her body. The difference is, by the ruling, a zygote isn’t a person whereas an adult is.

So, I presume, you agree with the pre-1960’s concept that you don’t get to tell a white man anything about what he can do in his home? And that includes if he wants to beat his wife?

Would you mind, Kate, acknowledging the parallel and answering whether you think it’s permissible for a man to do whatever he wants in his own home–that is you agree that “no, you don’t get to tell a man anything about what he can do in his home”?

Yes?

 

[NM505StKate]

Well, if you don’t know, then the moral thing to do is err on the side that it may be a human person, by your very own criteria.

An analogy: you’re hunting in the woods for a bear. You see a shadow. It may be a human person, but you’re not sure. No moral person would say: go ahead and shoot, since you’re not sure if it’s a person. Rather, all moral people say: I wouldn’t shoot, just in case it’s a human person.

I disagree because it is not much body nor my choice. If I was in the woods hunting for any animal and I say a shadow I am fairly sure I would be able to tell a human from said animal.

 

[PRmerger]

I disagree because it is not much body nor my choice. If I was in the woods hunting for any animal and I say a shadow I am fairly sure I would be able to tell a human from said animal.

But if you weren’t sure, you’d refrain from shooting, yes?

 

[NM505StKate]

Would you mind, Kate, acknowledging the parallel and answering whether you think it’s permissible for a man to do whatever he wants in his own home–that is you agree that “no, you don’t get to tell a man anything about what he can do in his home”?

Yes?

A person can do anything in their own home as long as it harms no one and there is consent involved.

 

[PRmerger]

A person can do anything in their own home as long as it harms no one and there is consent involved.

BINGOOOO!!!

And a woman can do anything she wants in her own body, as long as it harms no one.

Thank you!

 

[NM505StKate]

But if you weren’t sure, you’d refrain from shooting, yes?

Don’t know, never been in the situation.

 

[NM505StKate]

BINGOOOO!!!

And a woman can do anything she wants in her own body, as long as it harms no one.

Thank you!

Yeah and, according to the ruling, she can have an abortion because it is her body.