How would we enforce new abortion laws?

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Hope_Philomena said:
Would you rather kill the mother and the child, or just the child?
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There’s no scenario in which I would have to kill the child, intentionally, in order to save the mother’s life.

NB: saving the life of women with ectopic pregnancies are not an intentional killing of the child. If the baby could be saved, we’d save the baby too.
 
Ormond said:
And, don’t forget, about half of American Catholics think abortion should be legal. Point being, if the pro-life side can not persuade even most Catholics, it’s going to be tough sledding indeed to maintain a national anti-abortion law over time/
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During the 1960’s (and prior) public opinion (that is, white public opinion) was mixed on whether blacks should be given the civil rights they were fighting for.

But the laws changed anyway (thankfully) and now public opinion has been swayed.

Sometimes we have to make the laws change, and then people’s opinions change for the better.
 
PRmerger said:
There’s no scenario in which I would have to kill the child, intentionally, in order to save the mother’s life.

NB: saving the life of women with ectopic pregnancies are not an intentional killing of the child. If the baby could be saved, we’d save the baby too.
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No, you’re not getting this.

Not all women are perfect moral Catholics like you wish they were. They want abortions when they are desperate, and if you are denying this fact then I guess there’s no getting through to you. Women will seek out methods, and they will not be in clean legal clinics. They will be dangerous methods that either hurt or kill the mother. Are you denying this?
 
Hope_Philomena said:
No, you’re not getting this.

Not all women are perfect moral Catholics like you wish they were.
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Another weird logic being asserted here.

We could apply this to wife beaters, too. Not all men are perfect moral Catholics like you wish they were, so they’re going to beat their wives. Let’s at least make it legal for them to do so so they won’t be as secretive. Maybe they won’t harm their wives as harshly if they can do it in the open, with permission.

Let’s not make domestic violence illegal because, hey, no one’s perfect!
They want abortions when they are desperate, and if you are denying this fact then I guess there’s no getting through to you. Women will seek out methods, and they will not be in clean legal clinics. They will be dangerous methods that either hurt or kill the mother. Are you denying this?
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I don’t deny that women are going to abort their babies even if it’s illegal.

But do you deny that this will happen less if it’s illegal? At least some babies won’t die because their mothers have been told: you are not permitted to kill your baby.

Do you deny this?
 
Hope_Philomena said:
No, you’re not getting this.

Not all women are perfect moral Catholics like you wish they were.
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Also, men are going to rape women, because, hey, not all men are perfect moral Catholics like you wish they were.

So let’s make rape legal. At least men can then get some ideas on how to do this more safely!
 
Hope_Philomena said:
No, you’re not getting this.

Not all women are perfect moral Catholics like you wish they were
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Let’s also make infanticide legal, because, hey, not all women are perfect moral Catholics like you wish they were.

At least, if we make infanticide legal women won’t feel so helpless after they’ve killed their newborn.

[SIGN1]No one’s perfect, so let’s make it easier for them to be wicked![/SIGN1]
 
PRmerger said:
Another weird logic being asserted here.

We could apply this to wife beaters, too. Not all men are perfect moral Catholics like you wish they were, so they’re going to beat their wives. Let’s at least make it legal for them to do so so they won’t be as secretive. Maybe they won’t harm their wives as harshly if they can do it in the open, with permission.

Let’s not make domestic violence illegal because, hey, no one’s perfect!
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Dear God.

I wish people on here would stop with ridiculous analogies.

Wife beaters aren’t pregnant with a child that could negatively impact their entire future. And before you reference rapists, murderers, drug addicts, etc. They are NOT pregnant and desperate to keep their life normal.

Don’t you dare compare women who will do anything for abortion to abusive people.
 
Hope_Philomena said:
Dear God.

I wish people on here would stop with ridiculous analogies.

Wife beaters aren’t pregnant with a child that could negatively impact their entire future. And before you reference rapists, murderers, drug addicts, etc. They are NOT pregnant and desperate to keep their life normal.

Don’t you dare compare women who will do anything for abortion to abusive people.
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It’s simply applying your logic, Hope.

If you want to use the paradigm: people are going to do it anyway, so let’s make it safer for them to do this…

then you can’t argue with my post.
 
PRmerger said:
It’s simply applying your logic, Hope.

If you want to use the paradigm: people are going to do it anyway, so let’s make it safer for them to do this…

then you can’t argue with my post.
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Also, I will add that almost every law can be denounced with, “But people will do it anyway!”
 
PRmerger said:
It’s simply applying your logic, Hope.

If you want to use the paradigm: people are going to do it anyway, so let’s make it safer for them to do this…

then you can’t argue with my post.
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It’s not applying to my logic at all.

“People are going to do it anyway, so let’s make it safer for them to do this” does not apply to a rapist. Want to know why?

Rape illegal: Fewer rapists because raping someone does not save you from an event (ex. having a child) that will negatively impact your life, still going to be rapists since people are going to do it anyway. Rape is a crime of pleasure.
Rape legal: More rapists, more victims.

And here’s where your logic fails. Rape being illegal does not make a rapist seek out a dangerous method that may result both in his/her death and the death of his/her victim.

Abortion illegal: No legal documented abortions, but people are going to get dangerous illegal abortions because having a child is one of the most lifechanging things that can possibly happen to a women, and something so lifechanging will forever create desperate women. Illegal abortion is a crime of desperation, not pleasure. In this case, the victim is both the woman and the child
Abortion legal: More documented legal abortions, both morally and physically safe. In this case, the victim is the child.
 
🙂

So, how about you stop ridiculously comparing crimes that have no relation.
 
Hope_Philomena said:
It’s not applying to my logic at all.

“People are going to do it anyway, so let’s make it safer for them to do this” does not apply to a rapist. Want to know why?
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Sure.
Rape illegal: Fewer rapists because raping someone does not save you from an event (ex. having a child) that will negatively impact your life, still going to be rapists since people are going to do it anyway. Rape is a crime of pleasure.
Rape legal: More rapists, more victims.
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And here’s where your logic fails. Rape being illegal does not make a rapist seek out a dangerous method that may result both in his/her death and the death of his/her victim.
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Abortion illegal: No legal documented abortions, but people are going to get dangerous illegal abortions because having a child is one of the most lifechanging things that can possibly happen to a women, and something so lifechanging will forever create desperate women. Illegal abortion is a crime of desperation, not pleasure. In this case, the victim is both the woman and the child
Abortion legal: More documented legal abortions, both morally and physically safe. In this case, the victim is the child.
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LOL!

Your conclusion in bold applies exactly to abortion being legal.

Abortion legal: more abortions. More victims.

As always, with abortion discussions, the question comes down to when you believe that entity in the womb becomes a human person.

If it’s not a human person, who cares if it’s legal to remove it?

If it’s a human person, that changes everything.

Everything.
 
PRmerger said:
Sure.

LOL!

Your conclusion in bold applies exactly to abortion being legal.

Abortion legal: more abortions. More victims.

As always, with abortion discussions, the question comes down to when you believe that entity in the womb becomes a human person.

If it’s not a human person, who cares if it’s legal to remove it?

If it’s a human person, that changes everything.

Everything.
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:rotfl:

I can see you’re too stubborn in your ways to ever possibly listen to anyone who doesn’t have your views, so I’m going to just stop this lovely conversation here.

I’ll end with this:

Legal abortion = half the victims
Illegal abortion = twice the victims
 
Hope_Philomena said:
🙂

So, how about you stop ridiculously comparing crimes that have no relation.
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Try to think in the abstract, Hope.

It’s like you’re a 1st century Jew listening to Christ preach the homily of the Good Shepherd and you express disdain for him comparing you to a sheep. “How dare he makes such a ridiculous parallel! Does he see wool on my back? Do I walk around on all 4 legs like sheep do? Simply an absurd comparison! Also, I bathe more than sheep, so…”
 
Hope_Philomena said:
:rotfl:

I can see you’re too stubborn in your ways to ever possibly listen to anyone who doesn’t have your views, so I’m going to just stop this lovely conversation here.
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This happens when one’s arguments can’t be refuted, Hope.

It’s called a blind faith you’re endorsing if you can’t defend your views, nor have them stand up to scrutiny.
 
Hope_Philomena said:
:rotfl:

I can see you’re too stubborn in your ways to ever possibly listen to anyone who doesn’t have your views, so I’m going to just stop this lovely conversation here.

I’ll end with this:

Legal abortion = half the victims
Illegal abortion = twice the victims
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Legal abortion = safer for big people to kill little people.

And moral people should not permit this.
 
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