How would you currently rate yourself as a Catholic?

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Or St. Paul is using different words to say the same thing.
 
AugustTherese said:
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
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You keep proving my point as this is once again telling them to allow the spirit to carry to completion what has already been done, similar to what we discussed in James.
 
No, you had it right the first time. Justification and sanctification work hand-in-hand. They are closely linked, but not the same thing. We are justified through faith in Christ, and through faith in Christ we receive the Holy Spirit as our deposit, the guarantee of our salvation. And through the work of the Holy Spirit God works in us to sanctify us.
 
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In the same sense as we described before. We are already justified, just as Abraham was long before he offered Isaac as a sacrifice. The work demonstrated, brought to fruition the righteousness God had already credited to him through faith.

The same can be said of all creation, could it not? Jesus has already died and paid the price for redemption of the world. However, as Romans 8 says, the world still groans in anticipation till that act is brought to completion and all things are restored and is made manifest.
 
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Hodos said:
So stop trying to justify yourself through your works
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Quit trying to misrepresent what we do not confess to believe. The Catholic Church anathamatizes works done without divine assistance. You are building a straw man and caricaturing Catholic teaching.
 
I am not misrepresenting what you said. Unfortunately Paul anathematizes the addition of works to justification.
 
Hodos said:
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AugustTherese:
“And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”
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Thank you for illustrating my point. Paul draws the distinction between sanctification and justification right here.
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We are just before God by what we are, not merely what we are declared to be. We are justified because we have been sanctified through Baptism.
 
Sorry about that, the verse Paul and James both refer to “and he counted it (other translations say credited) to him as righteousness,” can be found in Genesis 15:6.
 
Hodos said:
Unfortunately Paul anathematizes the addition of works to justification
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Works of the Law, under the law, without grace, he sure does. But, what you seem to be obstinately refusing to understand, is that there are works of grace, done through the Spirit living within us!

“For it is not the hearers of the law who will be just before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified.”

The doers of the Law are those that have infused grace assisting them to perform works of love!
 
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AugustTherese said:
Works of the Law, under the law, without grace, he sure does. But, what you seem to be obstinately refusing to understand, is that there are works of grace, done through the Spirit living within us!
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Again, the distinction is that you are trying to argue that the works earn us grace which Paul has already expressly denied. Grace is freely given through faith. And it is our response to grace already given through the holy spirit that we are capable of doing works. But again, and Paul draws this statement as well, it is not for effect of justification. Paul reiterates this repeatedly even when talking about the works that we do in Romans 4. We can keep progressing through Romans if you like until you have read the whole thing in context.
 
Hodos said:
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AugustTherese:
Works of the Law, under the law, without grace, he sure does. But, what you seem to be obstinately refusing to understand, is that there are works of grace, done through the Spirit living within us!
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Again, the distinction is that you are trying to argue that the works earn us grace which Paul has already expressly denied. Grace is freely given through faith. And it is our response to grace already given through the holy spirit that we are capable of doing works. But again, and Paul draws this statement as well, it is not for effect of justification. Paul reiterates this repeatedly even when talking about the works that we do in Romans 4. We can keep progressing through Romans if you like until you have read the whole thing in context.
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Define works of the Law please.
 
Hodos said:
We can keep progressing through Romans if you like until you have read the whole thing in context
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The 16th century, novel, Protestant context? Nah, I’ll let the Church that Jesus Christ founded decide the context.
 
Hodos said:
you are trying to argue that the works earn us grace which Paul has already expressly denied
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When have I came even remotely close to even hinting or alluding to such a concept?!?! Those are your words, not mine. Perhaps you could get it out of your head that ‘works earn us grace’. Again, that is due to your lack of understanding of which kinds of works Saint Paul condemns and which ones he encourages in the real of justification before God.
 
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Rate all you or I want. The only rating I care about is how I rate in the presence of my Final Judge.
 
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