How would you respond to this re: embryonic stem cell research?

[HagiaSophia]

norbert:

If I had a child sick and suffering with a disease, and I had a frozen clump of cells stored in an IVF clinic to whom I had donated a gamete, I would definitely love my real child more than the frozen clump.

You will please pardon the observation that a great deal of the time you talk about situations with which you appear totally unfamiliar-- why is it that you persist in posting as if you don’t have a clue that many of the people in this forum, much less this thread are living with sickness, with life threatening situations for themselves, their families or loved ones–what precisely makes you so oblivious to the ethical struggles which many are dealing with – when your own children are on the way, I can assure you of one thing, you wont look at the situation as a “clump of cells”… and I trust when they arrive you will teach them that they are more than their skin, bones and DNA. Good grief!

It might be helpful as you post to remember Pastor Niemoller’s famous statement from the war:

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

And if you give the matter some thought you will see where some of the kind of thinking being posted in this thread will take us…they will come for you and yours as surely as they start with the embryos of the defenseless – for the greater good no doubt. Wait until you fall into that category down the road. Believe me your views will change. Frozen clump of cells indeed!

 

[norbert]

Call me morally degenerate or anti-Catholic or the spawn of the devil, but I do not believe that a frozen cluster of cells has the same value as you or I or handicapped little Timmy Smith down the street. In fact, I am Catholic and I think a good person. I think it is a little retarded to choose an absolutist philosophy over the cold, hard facts of reality. The reality is that these frozen embryos ARE clusters of cells and nothing more than that; they have no future other than a continued state of suspended animation on ice or (more likely) the medical waste garbage can. The reality is that there are many people in this world suffering (think about what “suffering” means) from diseases we can’t cure. Embryonic stem cells hold the potential (granted it’s just that) for curing these conditions. Why in the world should we not see if some good can come out of these cells? I don’t see how it’s morally superior anyway to choose the garbage can over the research lab. Please, please, please someone explain that.

 

[norbert]

David_Paul:

I give up. Only so many times can I stomach reading “frozen clump of cells” and “clump of cells”.

Toodles…

Well, what are they? If we looked at them under the microscope (which is what we would need to do to see them), we would see that they are clumps of cells, frozen solid. Or, if we looked at the defrosted ones in the IVF clinic dumpster, we would see that they are defrosted, rotting clumps of cells, being eaten by bugs.

 

[gardenswithkids]

norbert:

Why in the world should we not see if some good can come out of these cells? I don’t see how it’s morally superior anyway to choose the garbage can over the research lab. Please, please, please someone explain that.

I did not propose that it’s morally superior to choose the garbage over the research lab. I proposed that we should implant these frozen embryos in wombs and* then* we’d really see what good can come out of those cells.

When I wrote that earlier, you scoffed the idea of embryo adoption and said I should personally be willing to find wombs for all of them before proposing such an idea. By that same logic, you should not propose embryonic stem cell research unless you personally will pay for and conduct all the research and you personally find a cure for every disease that stem cells might cure.

You keep limiting the options to only a dumpster or research lab. Why?

 

[norbert]

gardenswithkids:

I did not propose that it’s morally superior to choose the garbage over the research lab. I proposed that we should implant these frozen embryos in wombs and* then* we’d really see what good can come out of those cells.

When I wrote that earlier, you scoffed the idea of embryo adoption and said I should personally be willing to find wombs for all of them before proposing such an idea. By that same logic, you should not propose embryonic stem cell research unless you personally will pay for and conduct all the research and you personally find a cure for every disease that stem cells might cure.

You keep limiting the options to only a dumpster or research lab. Why?

There are plenty of scientists eager to be funded to perform stem cell research. I don’t think there are millions of women eager to accept implantation of someone else’s frozen embryo. Sure, there are some. Perhaps good, culture-of-life oriented women, though, should do so. They should forego their own chances of conception naturally and do the right thing, bear a dozen or so of these embryos. How noble that would be! And we wouldn’t have to worry about the dumpster or worry about finding cures for incurable disease.

 

[Therese_Martin]

Notice:

This thread is closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.