How would your 'dream church' look like?

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Spiller said:
I have no anger towards you – perhaps a bit of disgust.
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The same sort of disgust I might have toward the L.A. Cathedral?

If so, it is completely forgiven. I also have very awkward angles.
 
Volodymyr_988 said:
I think the Latin Churches should bring back the Rood Screen:

I think that Eastern and Western Churches were more alike in the earlier days than we realize. I read that when the Muslims sacked Rome, they stole the Iconostasis from St. Peter’s Basilica (Old St. Pete’s, before Bramante.)
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I am a fan of the Rood Screen myself – O how politically incorrect!

And yes: the architectural distinctions between East and West did not become as firm until after the Schism.

FWIW, one of the main functions of the Rood screen in northern monastic churches was as a place to hang curtains so that the heat from the brazier placed in the center of the choir would stay in – especially during the long night office.
 
Spiller said:
Hmmm…

You began with “absolutely horrid.” Now it’s “absolutely ugly.” All this based on your personal architectural taste? Forgive me if I fail to accept your explanation. It sounds like you are more influenced by who the founder of the cathedral is than anything else.

How come you didn’t go inside? You can’t really see that much from Temple Street and even less from Grand Avenue. Are you judging the cathedral based on a quick drive by on US 101?

I have no idea why you feel the need to judge and denigrate Cardinal Mahony. That’s not very Catholic Christian of you and it does paint a fairly unseemly picture of your own self. To call a cardinal of the Church a heretic goes far beyond the pale. I have no anger towards you – perhaps a bit of disgust.
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I don’t want to get involved in any arguments, so I’m going to say my piece and nothing else. Spiller, I feel like you’re just trying to start a fight with people. A person is entitled to their opinion of architecture, which I’m pretty sure this thread is about. Also, there is nothing unChristian about aristotle judging Cardinal Mahony. His Eminence is known for not being a very orthodox teacher of the faith, and if he is doing things against the teaching of the Church, then he should be corrected. Once again, I am not trying to start another argument, but I do feel that aristotle deserves someone to defend him.

Moving on with the topic…
 
KathleenElsie said:
I would vote for this one. Wonderful. Would love to see it packed to capacity every Mass.
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have you been there? thats the only picture ive seen of it, from a friend. But it looks magnificent. Like i said, im a fan of spanish style churches, but i think i miss out not having a true “cathedral”
 
aristotle said:
These are all beautiful. What churches do they come from?
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Most Medieval Churches had them. I think these are all English Churches. This seems to have a connection to the Iconostasis in the Eastern Churches and the Curtain in the Coptic Churches. And by extension, the Veil of the Temple in Jerusalem.
 
Volodymyr_988 said:
Most Medieval Churches had them. I think these are all English Churches. This seems to have a connection to the Iconostasis in the Eastern Churches and the Curtain in the Coptic Churches. And by extension, the Veil of the Temple in Jerusalem.
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It is sad that they have been lost. It would be wonderful to see their return.
 
Spiller said:
According to Guinness World Records, the church with the tallest spire in the world is that of Ulm Münster, the Protestant Cathedral of Ulm, Germany. The building is early Gothic and was begun in 1377. The tower was not completed until 1890, and is 528 feet (161 meters) high.

It obviously started out as Catholic, however… 😉
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I think the Cross on the top makes it taller, but the spires on the Kölner Dom are actually taller. 🤷
 
BennyBoy89 said:
I don’t want to get involved in any arguments, so I’m going to say my piece and nothing else. Spiller, I feel like you’re just trying to start a fight with people. A person is entitled to their opinion of architecture, which I’m pretty sure this thread is about. Also, there is nothing unChristian about aristotle judging Cardinal Mahony. His Eminence is known for not being a very orthodox teacher of the faith, and if he is doing things against the teaching of the Church, then he should be corrected. Once again, I am not trying to start another argument, but I do feel that aristotle deserves someone to defend him.

Moving on with the topic…
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Of course they are. But it gets awfully old hearing comments like “awful”, “monstrosity” and “hideous” with absolutely no explanation. At least this time 1 or 2 admitted that their comments were based on their own personal tastes and not any sort of design or architectural standards or parameters. I also appreciate them mentioning their dislike of the founder of the cathedral as it clearly underscores him as being the true genesis of their dislike of the structure.

To suggest it is a Christian act to judge a cardinal of the Church is wrong. Take that up with your spiritual adviser.

As for your hit-and-run style of posting, I find it cowardly. You say you are not trying to start an argument yet you feel you can judge me and be gone – that’s very poor form.
 
Volodymyr_988 said:
Most Medieval Churches had them. I think these are all English Churches. This seems to have a connection to the Iconostasis in the Eastern Churches and the Curtain in the Coptic Churches. And by extension, the Veil of the Temple in Jerusalem.
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I am a big advocate for Rood screens! They were dropped in the post trent period because of Jesuit influences in the liturgy. Jesuits replaced the Rood screens with Altar Rails. The Carthusian monastary in england has a rood screen still to my knowledge, as does a newer briggitine monastary in Oregan.
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
My dream church? Big, Byzantine, with lots of gold and icons. Kind of like St. Sophia Orthodox Cathedral in California, beautiful.
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St. Sophie’s is about 6-7 miles from OLAC. It’s pretty nice – ornate, but I would still choose OLAC over it.
 
It just so happens that my dream church exists, it is the closest Catholic church to me, and it would be my church of attendance if I wasn’t homebound. What a coincidance! :eek:
I don’t know how to link to other sites on the web, but there are pictures of it on the web. Holy Ghost Catholic church in Knoxville Tennessee.
It’s one drawback is it is smack in the middle of a commercial area. It would best be situated in a park.
I am also a big fan of the still unfinished ( ? ) Cathedral of the architect Gaudi in Barcelona Spain, which is really surprising since I usually dislike anything modern.
And finally, it is not actually a church, though it is Catholic, the old campus of the Academy of the Sacred Heart on St. Charles street, New Orleans LA. A drop-dead gorgeous site.
 
Spiller said:
Of course they are. But it gets awfully old hearing comments like “awful”, “monstrosity” and “hideous” with absolutely no explanation. At least this time 1 or 2 admitted that their comments were based on their own personal tastes and not any sort of design or architectural standards or parameters. I also appreciate them mentioning their dislike of the founder of the cathedral as it clearly underscores him as being the true genesis of their dislike of the structure.

To suggest it is a Christian act to judge a cardinal of the Church is wrong. Take that up with your spiritual adviser.

As for your hit-and-run style of posting, I find it cowardly. You say you are not trying to start an argument yet you feel you can judge me and be gone – that’s very poor form.
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Is it even possible for you to be polite or understanding to someone? He wrote a very charitable and reasonable post, and you respond with this?? It drips with superiority…please try and reread it and others among your posts and see it from our perspective.
 
chewchoo said:
i’m kind of partial to the polish churches in detroit
stalbertus.org/tour.htm
sweetestheartofmary.org/tour.htm
gbjann.com/stjosaphat/
sainthyacinth.com/churchpics.htm
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THANK YOU for these photos! It tends to confirm something I have thought for some time. A parish near here was once an ethnic German church. Classic German Gothic. Inside were columns, a large high altar made of wood and a lifesize Pieta carved from two huge walnut blocks, joined almost indetctably together. Germans were nothing if not masters of wood carving.
Old photos show it as having had a rather dark interior. The high altar was natural wood, as was the Pieta.

However, it was later changed. They painted the ceiling sky blue, the columns and walls white, the high altar whites and creams. They even painted the Pieta white! (Later restored and reset in place) They brightened up the statues and added a fair amount of gold leaf accents. They left St. Benedict and St. Scholastica on the high altar, but added St. Rose and St. Therese of Lisieux (both holding boquets of roses) to Our Lady on the left side altar.

For a long time I couldn’t figure it out. Then, after doing a bit of study of the parish roster and looking at the cemetery, I realized the ethnic composition of the parish had changed from German to Polish. The original Germans were largely Rhinelanders, from Baden, the Black Forest. After visiting a number of German-built churches I truly have come to believe that many, at least, brought the Teutonic forest into the church with them, so to speak. Natural wood and a lot of it, Gothic style with columns and overarching “branches”. Poles, on the other hand, prefer a brighter style; lots of white, lots of blue. Flowers. I have seen photos of the interiors of churches in Poland and they tend to follow that color pattern. Reminds me of the origin of their name “Polonie”; “people of the fields”. Open skies, brightness, flowers. Likely their affection for floral motifs has a similar origin. Even the men have floral patterns on their “traditional” clothing.

Of course, I also realize that Poles deliberately chose Roman Catholicism over Orthodoxy; thus joining themselves to the West rather than the East. I understand they deliberately bypassed Germany (not too friendly, those neighbors), placed Poland under the protection of the Popes and imported their early architects and artists from the Mediterranean rather than from their nearer neighbors. Part of “Polishness” is, I understand “Romanitas” (Romanism, and it means more than Catholicism). Likely that influence has something to do with the brightness. But still, I cannot help but think the “Polonie” brought their open fields inside the churches with them, just as the Germans brought their forests inside with them.

Interesting to me, though I’m not Polish. Fascinating if true.
 
Cat said:
Everyone’s idea of “beauty” is different. I personally think that open space, empty walls, and bare wood and bricks are beautiful. So peaceful and soothing to the soul.

I don’t generally like a lot of clutter and bric-brac, although I do enjoy the elaborate decor in many of the very traditional Catholic churches. But as a rule, I prefer simple.

I have several walls in my home that are totally empty. I also have an antique secretary that only has a few candles on it–no knickknacks or books or anything. The secretary itself is beautiful without all the doo-dads. (Although I often pile it with seasonal doo-dads, especially at Christmas.)

But that’s just me. Others love all the doo-dads and clutter and visuals and pictures.

And that’s OK!

Some people believe that all the elaborate decor in churches helps us to picture heaven. But consider this viewpoint–many of us who have “cluttered lives” or who grew up in homes piled with clutter and junk find open space and bare walls much more “heavenly.”

Also, I fail to see how statues, gold, stained glass, murals, etc. fit in with the sacrifice on Calvary. I don’t think any of these beautiful things were present on Golgotha.

I am NOT condemning elaborate Catholic churches. I love them, too, and consider them castles and treasure houses! But I’m only questioning those who think that stark stripped down churches aren’t as “Massy” or “Catholic.” Well, I say that they are because Calvary was stark and stripped down, and that’s what Mass is–a re-presentation of Calvary. If we really want to concentrate on the Sacrifice of Our Lord, we would have no distractions–a crucifix, perhaps, and of course, the altar, and the Tabernacle containing Our Lord. To me, the people all around us are the only “decor” that was present at Calvary–some grieving, many complacent.
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I love bric-a-brac. My bedroom is wall-to-wall pictures, Icons, and stacks of books. But I do see the merit in your taste.
As a matter of fact, I wish that when the weather is good church could be held out doors, under big trees.
Is there some reason that the mass has to be done indoors?
 
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