https://www.quora.com/What-do-Protestants-and-Catholics-think-of-Mormons/answer/James-Hough-1

[humbleseeker]

The doctrine of the Trinity is refuted from the Bible again.

You really think the Catholic Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, which collected and canonized the Scriptures of the Bible, would leave in a passage that disproved a doctrine so fundamental to its faith? And no one would have noticed in 2000 yrs of scholarly study until you pointed it out? Or could it be you are mistaken in your interpretation of the passage and what the doctrine of the trinity actually is? Which seems more plausible?

 

[Stephen168]

This is my way that you have ignored:

God the Father is the uncreated creator (Genesis 1:3, Psalm 33:6, Psalm 33:9, 2 Maccabees 7:28) who created from his Word. This is the Judeo-Christian God.

The Mormon god is a creation, a man. The Mormon god lived in a world created by someone/something else. The Mormon god is not found in the bible.

God’s Word became flesh (John 1:1-14). Jesus Christ, the Word, the Son, was the only begotten son of the Father (John 3:16); he was God when he was born. He did not become God by living a sinless life. We partake in the divine nature (2Peter3:4) by adoption (Galatians 4:5, Romans 8:23, Ephesians 1:5).

In the beginning was the Word [Christ], and the Word [Christ] was with God [the Trinity], and the Word [Christ] was God [the Trinity].

God and Christ are the same being.

John 1:2-3:

The same [Christ] was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him [Christ]; and without him [Christ] was not any thing made that was made.

God and Christ are the same being; the uncreated creator.

Boom! The doctrine of the Trinity is refuted from the Bible again. No one is the thing they are with. The only way for this to make sense is for there to be two wholly separate and distinct beings that are in very close proximity to each other.

You just have to ignore the Old Testament teaching that there is one uncreated creator; God. Then you have to ignore the sentence before it and the sentence after it. And finally you have to not understand the Doctrine of the Trinity to think your one cherry picked sentence refutes the doctrine.

Ofcourse you haven’t even tried to explain away my second point supported by the Bible. We do not become God because there is only one God, and while Christ was the only begotten son, humans become sons by adoption. Humans do not become God. On Christmas, Christians celebrate the incarnation. What do Mormons celebrate?

 

[Lemuel]

On Christmas, Christians celebrate the incarnation. What do Mormons celebrate?

I remember a Christmas program in St. George, Utah several years ago when the theme of the program was Joseph Smith.

 

[Horton]

This statement is correct and supported by 1 Corinthians 1:15 ( the firstborn of every creature ) and John 1:14 ( the glory as of the only begotten of the Father )

Note that the statement would be even better were it to use the actual name - “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint” or perhaps “The Church of Jesus Christ” for short. No Latter-day Saint takes upon them the name of Mormon, or looks to Mormon for a remission of sins.

1 Corinthians 1:15
I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you. I mean that each of you is saying, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I give thanks [to God] that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one can say you were baptized in my name.

I have no idea how you can twist this verse into meaning the first born of every creature. In fact this paragraph speaks plainly about teaching anything other than the teachings of Jesus Christ, so it weakens any LDS claim of truth.

This statement is correct and is supported by John 1:14 (see above), and Hebrews 12:9 and Acts 17:29.

That statement is not correct and all those verses, when read in context with regards to the audience, culture and author, in no way supports your claim.

Note that this indicates that Jesus is not God nor has always existed. He is the created literal first son of God.

Nice little quote straight off fairmorman.org. Have you gone to the source to see if that is really what Fr. Stanley Jaki claims?

 

[Horton]

@Gazelam One of the many issues with using a single verse or two to prove a point, as though saying the writer intended this little piece to say this is The scriptures weren’t written that way. The writers of both the old and new testaments wrote in chapters and paragraphs using sentences. The numbering of chapters and verses came more than a 1000 years later. So while the bible is truly the inspired word of God, the numbering system is made of man.

More proof Catholics read the bible correctly using the context of the culture, the audience, and the writer.

 

[AngelaMarie]

A sincere question.

Has this thread become about explaining the position of one’s faith, or is it about the competition that arises when one is trying to win an argument?

Christ would just make His point about any particular point…and then walk away. In fact there were times He would even remain silent

He didnt stay engaged in an argument ad nauseam.

Since both Catholics and Mormons believe that humility is a virtue, perhaps some examination of conscience would be of value. Taking a time out to consider the intent of one’s heart.

 

[Lemuel]

I’ll give you my opinion and it’s just that so take it or leave it. I don’t think the Mormons here are trying to win an argument. I think they know they made a big mistake when they left the Catholic Church and now they are trying to justify their bad choices by trolling CAF and trying to convince THEMSELVES that they didn’t screw up. Mormons like to use the phrase, “they can leave the church but they can’t leave it alone.” I’ve seen that a lot. I’ve seen ex Mormons who troll Mormon forums and spout off a lot of anti-Mormon dribble just to justify their actions of leaving. Former Catholics so the same. I just look at this simply from my perspective. I left Mormonism because I knew it was a lie. That was good enough for me. I’m secure in my faith and I don’t need to troll Mormon web sites to justify what I’ve done. It’s between me and my God and I look forward to judgment day. The Mormons who troll CAF have no confidence in what they have done so their arguments are just a way of trying to convince themselves that they didn’t mess up. It’s all about pride.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[ColorMomma]

I think part of it is that the Mormons here do hope to lead others away from the Catholic faith. They can’t come right out and say that, but they have been targeting this young OP for just that purpose.

 

[gazelam]

gazelam:

This statement is correct and supported by 1 Corinthians 1:15 ( the firstborn of every creature ) and John 1:14 ( the glory as of the only begotten of the Father )

1 Corinthians 1:15
I urge you, brothers, … [yada, yada, yada]…so that no one can say you were baptized in my name.

I have no idea how you can twist this verse into meaning the first born of every creature. In fact this paragraph speaks plainly about teaching anything other than the teachings of Jesus Christ, so it weakens any LDS claim of truth.

I see I committed HUGH blunder, instead of engaging in my usually sound apologetics.

I meant to quote Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Sorry about that!

gazelam:

This statement is correct and is supported by John 1:14 (see above), and Hebrews 12:9 and Acts 17:29.

That statement is not correct and all those verses, when read in context with regards to the audience, culture and author, in no way supports your claim.

Please share how audience, culture, and author illuminate these verses and refute my claim.

gazelam:

Note that this indicates that Jesus is not God nor has always existed. He is the created literal first son of God.

Nice little quote straight off fairmorman.org. Have you gone to the source to see if that is really what Fr. Stanley Jaki claims?

I know nothing of www.fairmorman.org, but it very well could be in www.fairmormon.org since it supports nicely the Latter-day Saint view on this matter. Please feel free to offer information refuting Fr. Jaki on this topic. After all, we’re on CAF debate forum!!

 

[AngelaMarie]

Fair perspective, Lemuel, and thanks for sharing it. I do think there is value in what you say. It seems that that every time a thread on Mormonism pops up, practically the s.a.m.e posters end up getting into the s.a.m.e. arguments ad nauseam, over the s.a.m.e points. I don’t know if they are trying to convince themselves, or the other person, or if they are trying to “win” some argument.

Over and over.

Can we stop beating this already dead, very dead, horse, and bury it? We get it. Mormons don’t have the same doctrines, the same belief system as the rest of most Christendom.

WE GET IT ALREADY.

 

[AngelaMarie]

Fair enough.
That said, Sarah has already come to the decision that Mormonism isn’t for her, and she did so doing her own reading and own research.

 

[ColorMomma]

She is clearly very bright and I pray for her happiness.

 

[AngelaMarie]

She is clearly very bright and I pray for her happiness.

She is both very bright, and very mature for her age. I, too, pray for her happiness.

 

[Lemuel]

Can we stop beating this already dead, very dead, horse, and bury it? We get it. Mormons don’t have the same doctrines, the same belief system as the rest of most Christendom.

I totally agree. I stopped reading their arguments long ago. That horse is very dead.

 

[SunshineGrandma]

Who then, should get to define Christian?

I wonder if LDS consider Jehovah Witnesses Christian? They believe Jesus is the son of God, but not part of the Trinity.

Rejecting almost 2,000 years of a common belief in the Trinity…

I wonder which religious sect was the first to deny the Trinity?

 

[SunshineGrandma]

What was that Christmas program about?
Was it at the Tuacahn Theatre?

 

[SunshineGrandma]

Please explain how the God of the LDS is so totally different than the God of Judaism.

Jewish teaching states that God does not have a body.

 

[lilypadrees]

Where does the Holy Spirit fit Into your
(and Mormon) reasoning of the Trinity? You mention the Father and the Son (Jesus) but conveniently leave out the Holy Spirit . The Holy Spirit is the third in the Trinity.

While the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, there is plenty of Scrptural evidence of the Triune God (not Gods) within it’s pages.

How do you (and Mormons) explain the Baptism of Jesus in the River Jordan? The Father, Son and Holy Spirit were all present in the same place at the same time.

 

[gazelam]

Please explain how the God of the LDS is so totally different than the God of Judaism.

Jewish teaching states that God does not have a body.

I’m not so sure that your understanding is correct. Note what Origen (who did not believe in a corporeal God) said about the early Christians and Jews of his day.

The Jews indeed, but also some of our people, supposed that God should be understood as a man, that is, adorned with human members and human appearance. But the philosophers despise these stories as fabulous and formed in the likeness of poetic fictions. (Origen, Homilies on Genesis 3:1)

 

[gazelam]

Where does the Holy Spirit fit Into your
(and Mormon) reasoning of the Trinity? You mention the Father and the Son (Jesus) but conveniently leave out the Holy Spirit . The Holy Spirit is the third in the Trinity.

While the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, there is plenty of Scrptural evidence of the Triune God (not Gods) within it’s pages.

How do you (and Mormons) explain the Baptism of Jesus in the River Jordan? The Father, Son and Holy Spirit were all present in the same place at the same time.

A great question! Latter-day Saint believe that the Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead and is a divine being. Unlike the Father and the Son, the Holy Ghost does not have a physical body.

I believe the Holy Ghost was present at the baptism of Jesus to testify of the validity of that event (as was the Father)

We believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three divine, but separate and distinct personages. We do not believe that the Three share the same “essence” in the sense expressed by the Nicene Creed.

I hope this helps…