https://www.quora.com/What-do-Protestants-and-Catholics-think-of-Mormons/answer/James-Hough-1

[gazelam]

gazelam:

In the beginning was the Word [Christ], and the Word [Christ] was with God [the Father], and the Word [Christ] was God [the Son].

How did you determine the two different identities of God? Why the switch?

IMHO if one starts with the premise that the Father and the Son are the same God, then the statement “The Word was with God” is nonsensical since its the same as saying “God was with God”. That’s how I see it. What are your thoughts?

 

[gazelam]

St. John:

In the beginning was the Word [Christ], and the Word [Christ] was with God [the Trinity], and the Word [Christ] was God [the Trinity].

He was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

And the Word became flesh.

CCC 233 Defines the Trinity as the almighty Father, his only Son and the Holy Spirit".

Inserting this definition in place of “God” in John 1:1 we have:

In the beginning was the Word [Christ], and the Word [Christ] was with God [the almighty Father, his only Son and the Holy Spirit], and the Word [Christ] was God [the almighty Father, his only Son and the Holy Spirit].

Do you really want to go with a statement that says Christ is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

CCC 254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another .

 

[ColorMomma]

God is with God. The Trinity. Makes sense to me.

 

[ColorMomma]

Wherever one part of the Holy Trinity is present, so are all three. When we pray to Jesus, we are also praying to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Likewise, Jesus and the Holy Spirit were present at the creation of the Earth. They are one.

 

[ColorMomma]

Quoting the Catechism is not helping you because you clearly don’t understand what it says.

 

[Horton]

Do you really want to go with a statement that says Christ is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

Christ is not Jesus’ name, it’s his title. Christ means the anointed one or chosen one, so it would be Jesus, the Anointed One or Jesus, the Chosen One.

When you have a better command of the language of the bible you may be able to make sense of all this.

 

[Horton]

CCC 254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another

For the rest of the quote which you would never post: _

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another . “God is one but not solitary.” “Father”, “Son”, “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: “He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son.” They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: “It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds.” The divine Unity is Triune_

CCC 233 Defines the Trinity as the almighty Father, his only Son and the Holy Spirit".

And again: 233 Christians are baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: not in their names , for there is only one God, the almighty Father, his only Son and the Holy Spirit: the Most Holy Trinity.

As I have said so many times Gazelam, context matters in the real world.

 

[Stephen168]

CCC 233 Defines the Trinity

No it does not define the Trinity.

I think you are embarrassing yourself by trying to teach Catholics something you don’t understand and by using a document you don’t understand. John 1:1-14 is consistent with the Christian belief in the Trinity and Incarnation. It completely refutes the Mormon belief that Christ became a God, and rejection of the Trinity.

The Trinity is One . We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”. The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: “The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.” In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), “Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.”

 

[Stephen168]

IMHO if one starts with the premise that the Father and the Son are the same God, then the statement “The Word was with God” is nonsensical since its the same as saying “God was with God”. That’s how I see it. What are your thoughts?

When you understand the Doctrine of the Trinity it makes perfect sense. I explained it to you last April.

 

[ColorMomma]

Love this song!

 

[Lemuel]

My post about New Age Mormons got me banned for a week. Looks like this thread is about to die anyway. Hope y’all are doing well.

 

[lilypadrees]

My post about New Age Mormons got me banned for a week. Looks like this thread is about to die anyway. Hope y’all are doing well.

@Lemuel, I didn’t see anything objectionable in that post. Why would it have gotten you banned?
Glad you’re back.

 

[gazelam]

CCC 233 Defines the Trinity

No it does not define the Trinity.

I think you are embarrassing yourself by trying to teach Catholics something you don’t understand and by using a document you don’t understand. John 1:1-14 is consistent with the Christian belief in the Trinity and Incarnation. It completely refutes the Mormon belief that Christ became a God, and rejection of the Trinity.
CCC 253:

The Trinity is One . We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”. The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: “The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.” In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), “Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.”

Fine. We can do this your way.
St. John:

In the beginning was the Word [Christ], and the Word [Christ] was with God [the Trinity], and the Word [Christ] was God [the Trinity].

…and the Word [Christ] was God [the Trinity].

Per CCC 253 the Trinity is one God in three persons.

…and the Word [Christ] was God [one God in three persons].

and each of the persons is God and therefore each is a Trinity as you say Christ is

…and the Word [Christ] was God [one God in three Trinities].

next logical step…

…and the Word [Christ] was God [one God in three [one God in three persons]].

which brings us to…

…and the Word [Christ] was God [one God in three [one God in three Trinities]].

and this circular definition of false equivalencies can just go on forever.

PS - There are a variety of opinion regarding how John 1:1 should be translated. For more info see John 1:1 - Wikipedia.

 

[gazelam]

As far as the trinity being found in the bible: Luke 2: 31-35, Luke 3:21-22, John 1:29-34, Matthew 3:13-17, Mark 1:9-11, try these for a start.

I read these verses and didn’t see anything that was specifically Trinitarian. Latter-day Saints accept what is taught each of these passages. Let’s look at Mark 1:9-11:

9 it happened in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized in the Jordan by John.

10 On coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit, like a dove, descending upon him.

11 And a voice came from the heavens, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”

I see nothing in these verses that suggests that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are consubstantial in Their divinity. I see nothing of a hypostatic union. I certainly see verses indicating that the Three are divine, but that in and of itself is not Trinitarian. What specific traits that exclusively support the doctrine of the Trinity do you see in either this, or the other verses you listed? Thanks.

 

[ColorMomma]

Wikipedia is not an authority on the Catholic faith. Just because you don’t understand the nature of the Trinity doesn’t make it false.

 

[Lemuel]

Are Mormons Christian? I like what their prophet Rusty Nelson had to say in their last general conference. Nobody could have said it better:

“People could talk about Mormons and the Mormon Church all day long, and never once have Jesus Christ enter their thoughts.”

Precisely. Dead on. Well said. Bingo.

 

[Stephen168]

…and the Word [Christ] was God [the Trinity].

Per CCC 253 the Trinity is one God in three persons.

…and the Word [Christ] was God [one God in three persons].

and each of the persons is God and therefore each is a Trinity as you say Christ is

per CCC 253: “Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.”

Therefore each person is the one divine being, God.

…and the Word [Christ] was God [one God in three Trinities].

No, … and the Word [Christ] was God [the second person of the one divine being; God]

next logical step…

…and the Word [Christ] was God [one God in three [one God in three persons]].

No, there is no next step. The Word [Christ] was God [the second person of the one divine being; God]

which brings us to…

…and the Word [Christ] was God [one God in three [one God in three Trinities]].

and this circular definition of false equivalencies can just go on forever.

What is brings us to is the fact you don’t understand the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[Stephen168]

Fine. We can do this your way.

This is my way that you have ignored:

God the Father is the uncreated creator (Genesis 1:3, Psalm 33:6, Psalm 33:9, 2 Maccabees 7:28) who created from his Word. This is the Judeo-Christian God.

The Mormon god is a creation, a man. The Mormon god lived in a world created by someone/something else. The Mormon god is not found in the bible.

God’s Word became flesh (John 1:1-14). Jesus Christ, the Word, the Son, was the only begotten son of the Father (John 3:16); he was God when he was born. He did not become God by living a sinless life. We partake in the divine nature (2Peter3:4) by adoption (Galatians 4:5, Romans 8:23, Ephesians 1:5).

St. John 1:1:

In the beginning was the Word [Christ], and the Word [Christ] was with God [the Trinity], and the Word [Christ] was God [the Trinity].

God and Christ are the same being.
John 1:2-3:

The same [Christ] was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him [Christ]; and without him [Christ] was not any thing made that was made.

God and Christ are the same being; the uncreated creator.
John 1:14:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God, the Word, the second person of the Trinity, became flesh.

Contrary to Mormonism which teaches Christ [flesh] became a God.

 

[Horton]

I’m sorry you struggle so much with understanding the trinity. But once again it does provide more evidence of the LDS not being Christian.

Joseph Smith did claim he was told not to join any Christian denomination as they were all corrupt or some words to that effect. The LDS also have an extremely different of who Jesus is and the role he plays.
The Mormon church teaches that He (Jesus) is the First Begotten Son of the Father in the premortal existence and the Only Begotten Son of the Father on earth. God the Eternal Father is the literal parent of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and of His other spirit children. Note that this indicates that Jesus is not God nor has always existed. He is the created literal first son of God. The Book of Mormon is relatively silent on the subject of his conception. https://catholicconnect.co/2018/11/...nVI4jln7F2TSm1BN9FjsWf4bVrf88hsTR9ZgPGsG6BGl8

There is quite a bit more in the article about the differences between Christian and LDS.

 

[gazelam]

John 1:2-3:

The same [Christ] was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him [Christ]; and without him [Christ] was not any thing made that was made.

Boom! The doctrine of the Trinity is refuted from the Bible again. No one is the thing they are with. The only way for this to make sense is for there to be two wholly separate and distinct beings that are in very close proximity to each other.