Humility VS Desire for Respect

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What makes you think He’s not?
Hmm, let me think… I walk out of my campus only to greeted by the sight of beggars. I myself am already under a lot of pressure to fulfill the high standards of my university (lest I get kicked out). My parents are working tooth and nail keeping our family business afloat…

I think it’s quite clear than in a world like ours, striving hard to earn something is not only for gain but also for survival.

Unless you wanna live in the convent…
Jesus is the one who provides for those who trust Him.
Tell that to this guy.

Mind you? I don’t wanna end up like that.
 
I guess I can put it in this way… I am in a position of power as I work as a manager … but I am always humble enough to listen to EVERYONE with respect… no matter whether what the person is saying is something everyone knows about or no-one does… once I have listened to the person, I then make my decision based on the facts… I am humble enough to understand when someone else’s idea is better than mine but when I believe something is right, then I do use my position of power to make sure it is done right.

Humility is respecting the other person but it should also be directed towards our own self in the form of self-respect, in a way where you do not let the other person walk all over you. I love the example of St. Therese, where she did not venture to put down the nun, but maintained her own dignity and got what she wanted.
Yeah her example was definitely more to what I had in mind when someone is being humble. You know you have the authority but you don’t abuse it. You know your on top but you don’t use it as an excuse to trod on people.

I just personally can’t see where the Litany comes from though since there’s still the issue of wanting a healthy amount of respect.

That and there are really times when you have to show people who’s boss. :o
 
I just personally can’t see where the Litany comes from though since there’s still the issue of wanting a healthy amount of respect.
The Litany is about changing our desires to make us desire Christ and unity with His Passion, and to cause us to not desire anything in the world but its Maker. It makes sense actually on an instinctive level that those who die desiring only their Creator should receive their Creator, whereas those who die desiring what is passing should pass away themselves without receiving everlasting life and glory. This second “passing away” would be what Scripture refers to as the “second death,” Hell, which is all that is unloving and consequently is a just punishment for those who reject all that is loving, Love itself, which is God.
That and there are really times when you have to show people who’s boss. :o
This mostly occurs when people are in a position of real authority, and yes, they do sometimes have to use it. That’s their responsibility, and it should never be done out of pride.
 
I tend to think that the desire to show that “I’m just as good as you!” is motivated by pride. A person who is humble does not need these things, they don’t think of themselves that much at all… humility is not thinking you’re horrible, but just not focusing on self so much. I say this as a person who struggles with the same thing and wanting human respect…I’ve also had people look down on me and sometimes I still deal with the effects of that, but I tend to think this desire to be recognized comes from self love.
I once heard a question that asked, “If you can’t learn to love yourself, how can you learn to love others?”

I personally have a hard time agreeing to that statement but… lately it seems to have a point. >:\
 
The Litany is about changing our desires to make us desire Christ and unity with His Passion, and to cause us to not desire anything in the world but its Maker. It makes sense actually on an instinctive level that those who die desiring only their Creator should receive their Creator, whereas those who die desiring what is passing should pass away themselves without receiving everlasting life and glory. This second “passing away” would be what Scripture refers to as the “second death,” Hell, which is all that is unloving and consequently is a just punishment for those who reject all that is loving, Love itself, which is God.
Well the thing is while respect is something you can define as passing, it is still no less a powerful tool to spread influence. I mean Jesus Himself had crowds following Him.

Sadly, since we’re human we’re going to do a lot more work if we need to be respected in whatever field we want before people start taking what we say seriously.

It’s why I have issues with the Litany. What if I desire respect, not because I wanna be arrogant but because I want to use the power of influence to reach out to people?
This mostly occurs when people are in a position of real authority, and yes, they do sometimes have to use it. That’s their responsibility, and it should never be done out of pride.
Yes I know but I don’t think that means you have any less excuse to not be competitive. Positions of authority are things you earn. Promotions, appointments, titles… you have to work for these things. You know the responsibility but also you know the good you can do when you’re in such a position.
 
Well the thing is while respect is something you can define as passing, it is still no less a powerful tool to spread influence. I mean Jesus Himself had crowds following Him.

Sadly, since we’re human we’re going to do a lot more work if we need to be respected in whatever field we want before people start taking what we say seriously.

It’s why I have issues with the Litany. What if I desire respect, not because I wanna be arrogant but because I want to use the power of influence to reach out to people?
What the Litany is against is pride in all its forms. It isn’t against using legitimate authority in order to do good. It isn’t against seeking authority through legitimate methods in order to do good either, provided one’s reason for seeking that power really is pure.

It’s important for anyone seeking power to be cautious because pride is very subtle and very deadly and can worm its way into us in all kinds of ways that we are completely unconscious of. That’s one reason why praying the Litany can be so valuable.

It’s worth keeping in mind that Jesus didn’t seek respect. He sought to do good to people and they respected Him for His wisdom and His goodness. That is the Christian way, not seeking respect but seeking to love, and through that love gaining respect from some and enmity from others, and accepting both without troubling oneself over either because we accept all our circumstances as gifts from the hand of God, given for our spiritual benefit.
Yes I know but I don’t think that means you have any less excuse to not be competitive. Positions of authority are things you earn. Promotions, appointments, titles… you have to work for these things. You know the responsibility but also you know the good you can do when you’re in such a position.
Agreed. Being competitive, so long as it isn’t about tearing others down but about doing the best you can, can be fine. What it’s really important for us to prayerfully consider is our heart attitude and motivations, how much what we’re seeking is about me and how much is truly about helping others. If it is about others, there isn’t any problem, but usually there is a selfish motive involved in just about anything we do and we need to be careful, especially when getting into positions of power because these can especially easily twist us with pride.

This doesn’t mean it’s intrinsically wrong to seek power or to be competitive. Do all things toward competition, subordinates, equals and managers and everyone else out of love, and that suffices. Then you’ll be fine.
 
I think I can see where you’re coming from. I’m pretty proud of who I am (minus a small albeit persistent flaw :o). However, reading the Litany, I have difficulty reconciling who I am with it. This is not to say I am arrogant but eh, I’m pretty competitive and want to earn the respect so people will learn to take me seriously when I need it.

**I can’t fully agree though with not reminding people of their place. **Again, this doesn’t mean I promote tyranny. However, there are times when respect for a person’s authority is crucial. (Take war time for instance or in politics.)
Reminding people of their place can be a great act of charity, as long as we remember our own place. I’ll share a few examples.

Our holy Father Francis was on his way to war when he heard a voice ask him, “Francis, is it better to serve the master or the servant?” Francis immediately answered, “The master, of course.” The voice responded, “Why do you seek to serve the servant?” God was not speaking about serving others. He was asking Francis why he was seeking to serve himself, rather than serve God. Even God puts us in our place.

Another example: When Francis founded our religious family he dictated the rule to Brother Leio. When Br. Leo read it back to him Francis was disturbed. Br. Leo had written the word “Prior” into the rule. It was and is the common title for superiors of mendicant orders. Br. Leo thought that this is what Francis meant to say, in the chapter on obedience. So, that’s what he wrote. Francis corrected him and said, “Add this to the rule. Let no brother ever call himself either Father or Prior, for the superior’s place is to be the guardian of his brothers as Joseph was the Guardian of the Child Jesus. No one is to be a Father or the First, because the first shall be the last and the last shall be first.” The message was that the person who is in command is really at the service of those whom he commands and is responsible for them and for what they do, not above them. Whatever he commands must be for their good and the good of those whom they serve. This applies in civil and secular life as well. Unfortunately, secular society today has forgotten that those in authority are to serve and protect. Even the CEO of Microsoft must serve and protect his employees, if he wants to see a profit.

My last example is closer to home. A parent is not the child, nor is he the child’s buddy. He is the parent. The child is not the parent, nor is he the parent’s friend. He is the child. Each must remind the other of his place. It is the place of the parent to protect, nurutre, guide, correct, love, and reward. It is the place of the child to grow, learn, mature, and care for his parent in his old age. In my ministry I have seen many children out of control. When I look closely, I find many parents who are not being parents. The child is screaming for someone to take charge. The point then is that there is always rank and file in life. It is built into human nature. But each rank has duties, not just rights.

There is not glory in doing what you’re supposed to do. If another thanks you for it, that is not justice, that is charity. To be thanked for taking care of my child is an act of charity on my child’s part, not an act of justice. I have a duty to take care of my child. Sometimes we expect gratitude for doing our duty. That is not humility. True humility is the execution of duty without expecting recognition for doing what is your obligation.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Hmm, let me think… I walk out of my campus only to greeted by the sight of beggars. I myself am already under a lot of pressure to fulfill the high standards of my university (lest I get kicked out). My parents are working tooth and nail keeping our family business afloat…

I think it’s quite clear than in a world like ours, striving hard to earn something is not only for gain but also for survival.

Unless you wanna live in the convent…

Tell that to this guy.

Mind you? I don’t wanna end up like that.
I’m sure not. But bitterness and ingratitude won’t get you there either.

That prayer is a tough one. At best, it has me scratching my head. At worst, I also react with bitterness and ingratitude.

Shows me how much I need to work on it.
 
Sorry Jared but Lief and JR have given waaay more well thought out answers than yours. Yours I’m afraid, looks like the first step to the questionable Protestant doctrine of the Prosperity Gospel. :\
 
Sorry Jared but Lief and JR have given waaay more well thought out answers than yours. Yours I’m afraid, looks like the first step to the questionable Protestant doctrine of the Prosperity Gospel. :\
I didn’t know we were competing. :o Even if we were, I wouldn’t be able to hold a match to either.
 
Just for the record, I do stand by what I said. :knight1:

But, good luck in finding the answers you need.

Peace be with you.
 
Just for the record, true humility is born from true obedience to the Will of God. It is the realization that we are nothing of ourselves and the experience of emptiness, even when we have succeeded at doing what we are called to do. That emptiness reminds us that our achievements are not the fulfillment of our desires. The fulfillment of our desires come long after we have achieved success.

It is only when we experience an emptiness that achievements cannot fill that we become truly humble, because then we have no place else to go for consolation but to God himself.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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