Husband and I not having sex because we don't want children.

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Having sex when you know you can’t get pregnant does not equal an intent to be procreative, it’s just sex.

Let’s try to put it this way. When a couple has intercourse during the infertile period they are engaging in an act that is still completely natural. There is no barrier between them (condom, pill, etc.) that will turn this act into something else. The sexual act is as it should be, even though the chances are that there will be no pregnancy. When a couple uses some sort of ABC they turn the sexual act into just sex for the purpose of pleasure, by planning to use something that will prevent pregnancy. So this becomes a question of essence. Even when a couple has intercourse during the infertile period the essence of the act is unitive and procreative because their intent is such. ABC makes sex essentially sterilised because that is the purpose, the intention, of ABC.

Does this help?

 

[Boy_Wonder]

We don’t want the risk of having a baby. I am also fearful of childbirth. I have low pain threshold and pass out during a health examination.

A few times last year, we were on vacation but didn’t even feel the urge to have sex. But we are very loving and inseparable. Husband ever mentioned that he would quit job to serve Church full time if I go before him.

Trust God. Be open. Have a complete marriage - sex and all. Fear is selfish - not holy. There is no situation God will lead you to that he won’t bring you through.

Pray. Seek spiritual guidance. This is not the right way for a married couple to live. It’s not holy and it does violence to the sacrament of marriage.

 

[dluna]

Trust God. Be open. Have a complete marriage - sex and all. Fear is selfish - not holy. There is no situation God will lead you to that he won’t bring you through.

Pray. Seek spiritual guidance. This is not the right way for a married couple to live. It’s not holy and it does violence to the sacrament of marriage.

I am trying to. I have prayed about it. I feel so sick seeing a pram or baby items. My husband says he can’t imagine a life with children.

 

[bobcrawford]

Actually your link to webmd is on the Rhythm Method which is not the same thing as NFP. I agree that the Rhythm Method is only 75% effective and I would not recommend it to anyone.

You are wrong about condoms being 100% effective. I’ve already proven you wrong on that one. I don’t think you are doing yourself any favors by continuing to make that false claim.

The intent is not the same. Please see my previous response.

You have not proven anything on condoms versus NFP versus anything. Anyone can pull up Internet “facts” to oppose or support any argument. While I still believe condoms if used correctly, are indeed 100% effective. But, for the sake of argument, I’ll go with your statement that neither is effective.

However, the intent is the same - pregnancy prevention - how can you say anything different?

Now the Church will state that intercourse has to allow for the possibility of conception - correct - or it is morally wrong. Therefore, you state that NFP is entirely safe. You state that a condom is also not effective. If a condom is not effective, then it is in fact allowing for the possibility of conception. Therefore use of a condom and NFP both allow for the possibility of conception. Therefore both are morally correct.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

I am trying to. I have prayed about it. I feel so sick seeing a pram or baby items. My husband says he can’t imagine a life with children.

Pray. Trust God. Have a fulfilling intimate life with your husband.

I mean no disrespect, but you both might try counseling. These are irrational fears and they are separating you from God and each other.

Make love to him tonight.

 

[bobcrawford]

Sorry I don’t see it…using that logic, catholics should only have sex during the fertile period anyway because they know they won’t get pregnant other times. Having sex when you know you can’t get pregnant does not equal an intent to be procreative, it’s just sex.

So what’s wrong with having sex and not wanting to be procreative?

 

[Truth_Faith13]

So what’s wrong with having sex and not wanting to be procreative?

I don’t think there is, I’m trying to understand the logic of NFP and failing

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Well for one thing, NFP is no where near 100% effective.I remember attending pre-cana with my now wife and they had this couple come in to talk about NFP. They admitted that they had a child when using said method to prevent pregnancy at the time. Not the greatest couple to bring in to talk about its effectiveness.

You couldn’t be more wrong about this:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6375261.stm

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I am trying to. I have prayed about it. I feel so sick seeing a pram or baby items. My husband says he can’t imagine a life with children.

It sounds like you actually have a phobia of kids?

Has something happened for you to feel this way?

 

[bobcrawford]

You couldn’t be more wrong about this:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6375261.stm

Notice the claim “the research suggests” because in all cases, we don’t know exactly what happened when conception took place. Was a condom actually used? Are the participants being honest in what they report?

The fact you cannot dispute, the couple who spoke to us about NFP clearly stated that they had a baby when trying to prevent pregnancy at the time using the NFP method. I could not be more right about that fact.

 

[bobcrawford]

I don’t think there is, I’m trying to understand the logic of NFP and failing

OK, sorry must have misunderstood the post.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Actually your link to webmd is on the Rhythm Method which is not the same thing as NFP. I agree that the Rhythm Method is only 75% effective and I would not recommend it to anyone.

You are wrong about condoms being 100% effective. I’ve already proven you wrong on that one. I don’t think you are doing yourself any favors by continuing to make that false claim.

The intent is not the same. Please see my previous response.

Many people think that NFP is the Rhythm Method. That is incorrect.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Notice the claim “the research suggests” because in all cases, we don’t know exactly what happened when conception took place. Was a condom actually used? Are the participants being honest in what they report?

We don’t know what happens every time people say they are using condoms and got pregnant, either.

That is why typical use of condoms is 85%-90% as opposed to 98%.

The fact you cannot dispute, the couple who spoke to us about NFP clearly stated that they had a baby when trying to prevent pregnancy at the time using the NFP method. I could not be more right about that fact.

One data point an argument does not make.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Many people think that NFP is the Rhythm Method. That is incorrect.

On that link it was using the same technique though? Cycle, temp, secretions etc

 

[dluna]

Trust God. Be open. Have a complete marriage - sex and all. Fear is selfish - not holy. There is no situation God will lead you to that he won’t bring you through.

Pray. Seek spiritual guidance. This is not the right way for a married couple to live. It’s not holy and it does violence to the sacrament of marriage.

I am trying to. I have prayed about it. I feel so sick seeing a pram or baby items. My husband says he can’t imagine a life with children.

 

[bobcrawford]

Many people think that NFP is the Rhythm Method. That is incorrect.

Then I stand corrected. But it does not change the argument much. According to our own government:

“Of 100 couples who use natural family planning methods each year, anywhere from 1 to 25 will become pregnant. Natural family planning can be an effective type of birth control if all three methods are used and if all are always used correctly.”

That is still up to the 25% failure rate I stated previously.

hhs.gov/opa/pdfs/natural-family-planning-fact-sheet.pdf

My points are two-fold, no method is 100% effective at preventing pregnancy, though I have never heard or read where anyone got pregnant from using a latex condom that did not break.

Given that point, since there is always a chance that someone can get pregnant using natural or artificial methods of pregnancy prevention, I don’t see how a condom or NFP can be morally wrong.

So to this couple who are not having sex because they do not want to have children, how can some artificial methods be morally wrong if the possibility of pregnancy always exists?

 

[bobcrawford]

We don’t know what happens every time people say they are using condoms and got pregnant, either.

That is why typical use of condoms is 85%-90% as opposed to 98%.

One data point an argument does not make.

Yup, but it does help.

What is 98% - NFP? Not according to our own government which says that NFP can be as ineffective as 75%, and increases if other methods are used along with NFP.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Yup, but it does help.

What is 98% - NFP? Not according to our own government which says that NFP can be as ineffective as 75%, and increases if other methods are used along with NFP.

Condoms are 98% effective in “perfect use.”

All forms of contraception have a “perfect use” number and a “typical use” number, because people cheat and are inconsistent in usage.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Yup, but it does help.

What is 98% - NFP? Not according to our own government which says that NFP can be as ineffective as 75%, and increases if other methods are used along with NFP.

Condoms are not 100 percent as you have stated. NFP is not 75 percent. The rhythm method is.

When you are refuted why do you continue to restate untrue things?

In my ABC days, I had several condoms break.

 

[mtbender]

Yup, but it does help.

What is 98% - NFP? Not according to our own government which says that NFP can be as ineffective as 75%, and increases if other methods are used along with NFP.

Our government also says it can be as effective as 99%… depends on what method you are using. The method effectiveness of the Sympto-thermal method is 99%, method effectiveness of a condom is 98%.