husband won't work

[whatevergirl]

**Ladies, I’m bowing out of this thread.

I will leave you with this…:grouphug:

We’re all sisters in Christ…and life is a hard journey at times, with tough choices. Let’s support one another, rather than judge.

God bless!**

 

[kage_ar]

Wouldn’t that be a situation more like family farms where all work together for the good of the family? I can see a woman with her children around her in the vineyard, the smallest one nursing in a sling as she goes about her “work”… but maybe I am just naive.

In the time when that passage was written, life was not that simple.

People lived in large extended families, and the oldest momma and daddy were the boss, even of the adults. There would also be servants/slaves who were part of the household.

Women would be working sunup to sundown - in gardens, tending small animals, making things for use of the family and also to sell/trade (textiles, baking, etc.) . Babies/toddlers would be cared for by extended family members and/or servants - there would be family members or servants to nurse the infants while the able bodied/young women worked. By the time a young girl was out of toddlerhood, she would have jobs to do - boys would be sent to school for part of the day and would work in the family business or as an apprentince to another skilled man.

Even the family meal, the men would eat separately from women and children in many places and times.

SAHM is a modern invention and in light of the world and history, even with struggles we live in the wealthiest time and place ever and can have such choices for moms.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

**I really need to address the point of a mom not being “good” at being a SAHM…

I start from the basic premise that motherhood is a vocation, not a right or something to expect.

Let’s compare it to the vocation of marriage. If, once we marry, we realize we are not so “good” at being a wife or husband… Does that mean we should spend less time with our spouse “for their own good”? Sounds preposterous doesn’t it. I think that most people here would advise counselling, prayer, and hard work in order to do their best at fulfilling the vocation.

So, for a mom to say, “wow, this is hard. I don’t like this and my kids are suffering for it so i’ll put them in daycare so they don’t have to deal with my own impatience etc” sounds like the easy way out. It doesn’t require the mom to grow as a mother or in holiness. It’s kind of like sweeping the issue under the rug.

Kind of like f I were married to a man who decided that family life was difficult so decided to spend most of his free time pursuing hobbies and hanging out with friends so that during the times he chose to spend with us he could be a better dad and husband…wouldn’t fly with me. How about you?

Again, this has nothing to do with moms who have to work. Just those who try to veil their selfish choices behind “doing what is best for the kids”**

 

[Eliza10]

How is it selfish for a woman who realises she a) would not be a good SAHM (as many would sadly do only after having children), …

Yes, there are times like these, and many other kinds of cases, where it is certainly not selfish. I think thats why no one here has even implied that, “Working moms (in general) are selfish.” But you would think from how this thread is going that someone said that. Read through and you will see its true.

Specific selfish instances were pointed out. Not by me. The two Moms I know, that I pointed out, worked not for seflish reasons but for basic survival. They did not have helpful family members to make it easier. In my friend’s case, her mom (the child’s grandmother) is comfortably retired and primarily interested in her own socializing - it seems to me - and that is what I always thought was selfish. My entirely unselfish friend and her son could have used her practical and emotional support. But some people don’t seem able to offer that to others, sadly. (Sometimes it seems to me that some retired parents feel entittled to a fun life now, and they are off in Vegas or Florida while their children are are struggling to raise their children sometime salone with no involved grandparents around).

…Is it really better simply be a poor mother and nothing else…

I know you are not putting down poor mothers. But I just want to say, I really admire poor mothers who are that and nothing else. Often times they are people who are willing to truly sacrifice for their choice. Some of these poor mothers who no one notices on earth will recieve finest crowns in Heaven, and we will all be admiring them in Eternity.

Oh, and Our Lady was a poor mother!

As for the vineyard … my parents have a fruit farm, and no it wouldn’t work that way. Kids would be left in the care of older relatives, possibly out in the field so that they can be fed when necessary (if still at the breastfeeding stage) but not in a sling or hanging around Mom’s neck or ankles :nope:

Certainly one can’t do that just anywhere. But certainly sometimes it can work out.

This reminds me of our own dear St. Theresa whose feast day we just celebrated yesterday. Her (working!) mother was not able to produce milk by the time her youngest, Theresa came along, so baby Theresa had to go live with a wet nurse as an infant for awhile. The wetnurse worked in a field, so she would tie Theresa (in some sling-type device I guess) to a nearby COW - so the baby could enjoy the warmth and movement while she worked!

 

[Eliza10]

ILMB - again with the bashing of children of women who work! .

Umm - ILMB? Integrated Land Mangement Bureau??

Don’t wast time being . Be happy. We are all sisters in Christ here, and brothers, and people are just sharing their opinions and observations, and no one is doing anything bigoted like bashing whole groups of people. Sometimes when a person is seeing red, it colors what they read, and they don’t read the posts thoroughly and read wrong things into them.

There isn’t anyone on this thread being bigoted.

Do you seriously want me to show the illogicality of your reasoning process by going through every instance I’ve seen in the past of SAHMs whose children turn out equally bad as the ones you’re describing?..How about the SAHMs …resentful of staying at home, so stressed about living on a single income, that they end up, sadly, abusing their children, abusing drugs or alcohol, or spending way more than the family income on ‘retail therapy’ because they feel so unfulfilled in their lives? .

You can find exceptions to every rule. Certainly abusers of people and substances are exceptions to every rule, and such exceptions are found in every walk of life.

Also I am sure Moms who resent staying at home are around, I just have never ever met one in my entire life. Living on one income is stressful, but I have never ever met one that turned to drugs or abuse over this. Never once. They may exist. I never met and never heard of one.

Certainly no one has said that good Moms and good kids are exceptions to any rules about working mothers either. No generality has been made about working mothers.

I think you are mistakenly arguing a point that was not made here on this thread. Maybe in some other thread or forum.

Here’s a quick test - go to your bible, open up to the last chapter of Proverbs and read there the description of an ideal wife. … She does paid work…invests said income in property, and personally plants vineyards… In other words … she’s a working mother and not a SAHM. … remember this is holy scripture - not …man’s ideal of a wife, but God’s.

Wow. Again, Id say no one has said it was ungodly or wrong for a SAHM or working Mom to earn money. I have always known SAHM’s, whether they earn money or not, to look to the Proverbs woman as their ideal and model. But certainly she is a model for all of us, no matter our (necessary or not) choices.

 

[LilyM]

I know you are not putting down poor mothers. But I just want to say, I really admire poor mothers who are that and nothing else. Often times they are people who are willing to truly sacrifice for their choice. Some of these poor mothers who no one notices on earth will recieve finest crowns in Heaven, and we will all be admiring them in Eternity.

Oh, and Our Lady was a poor mother!

Let me clarify - I did NOT mean ‘poor mother’ as in materially poor, although sometimes that can be a failing too - if the child is underfed/underclothed/undereducated because the mother won’t deign to work outside the home then that is a failing and a neglect too.

I meant ‘poor mother’ as in the opposite of ‘good mother’. I’m sure Our Lady was excellent, not poor in that sense in the slightest!

Now do you, or you Malia, seriously think that a mother who is incapable of adequately mothering should subject either herself or her children to substandard parenting once it’s clear that she is unlikely to improve much or incapable of much improvement? To the child’s serious detriment and her own frustration?

Would you suggest that someone who is trying to be a musician or an artist and after an investment of time and effort shows little or no improvement, should continue beating their head against a wall, or should they look instead to fulfil themselves in that work which they CAN do, and leave the art and music to those who ARE capable of doing those things?

God calls many women to be mothers, I’m sure. Why you think that this equates to all being called to be full time SAHMs is beyond me. If fathers are (and they usually are) called both to be fathers and to have a vocation in a career as well, why should mothers be any different?

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Now do you, or you Malia, seriously think that a mother who is incapable of adequately mothering should subject either herself or her children to substandard parenting once it’s clear that she is unlikely to improve much or incapable of much improvement? To the child’s serious detriment and her own frustration?

**How many mothers in that type of case actually try to improve? After all, the ones I’m talking about can’t WAIT to drop their newborn baby off at a daycare center at 6 weeks old so they can get back to work and not have do anymore “baby stuff”. It’s not like you ever hear of one saying, I really wanted to be a good mom, tried it, found out I was terrible, went and got counselling, really tried to better myself and finally after X-amount of time, realized I should not be primary caregiver to our child"? Not that I’m saying those women don’t exist…
**
But society is so “for” women’s choice that motherhood has become optional. Sure, they have a uterus and are capable of giving birth to a child, but without sacrifice they are not mothers. Just as one cannot be a good spouse without sacrifice.

Would you suggest that someone who is trying to be a musician or an artist and after an investment of time and effort shows little or no improvement, should continue beating their head against a wall, or should they look instead to fulfil themselves in that work which they CAN do, and leave the art and music to those who ARE capable of doing those things?

**Again, motherhood is a VOCATION…so comparing it to being an artist is off the mark. It is much easier compared to marriage or the priesthood. If one makes a commitment to their vocation then it is for better of for worse… it is alot of responsibilty. And, if we find we are not very good (whatever that means) at it then it is up to us to do everything in our power to improve.

If a person comes here with a post about trouble in their marriage, people suggest all kinds of help…from seeing their priest to Retrouvaille… why wouldn’t we want to support a struggling mom to better herself in her God-given vocation?**

God calls many women to be mothers, I’m sure. Why you think that this equates to all being called to be full time SAHMs is beyond me. If fathers are (and they usually are) called both to be fathers and to have a vocation in a career as well, why should mothers be any different?

**There is a reason that God chose women to be the ones to naturally bond (more closely) with the baby and be more nurturing by instinct. Just as he chose men to have strong instincts to provide and protect. Each individual situation is different, and I need to say that I admire stay at home dads even more than moms since they are really going against society and maybe even their own instincts for the good of their family.

All of us have varying qualities… I’m not trying to stick all women into one category and men in another. But, that is why we are supposed to discern our vocations. We need to spend more time following where God is leading rather than holding onto our human selfishness and feeding our frail egos.**

 

[Eliza10]

:tiphat: Really well said, Malia. You made good points!

 

[Eliza10]

I find it very hard to believe that you wouldn’t judge a woman as wrong who told you that she would rather do things for herself than for her children. Being selfish is a bad thing. When did it become wrong to state that? Just because it is another mother we suddenly have to become neutral like Sweden?

As Catholics we know there are objective wrongs… being selfish is one of them. Now, i hope nobody twists my words to make it seem like I am equating working moms with being selfish…just that in some cases that is true.

:clapping: This is a good point too, Malia. Though I am sure you mean Switzerland. (Thats okay, you’ve done a lot of typing!)

 

[sanctareparata]

Excellent, Malia.

I too agree that being a wife and mother is a vocation - a calling from God - and He gives the graces needed to succeed in that vocation if we ASK Him for them and if we embrace them. It is not comparable to a career. Careers aren’t “callings” like vocations are.

I agree that if someone isn’t able to be a good wife, we don’t counsel them to stay away from their husband as much as possible so as not to damage him. If someone isn’t able to be a good priest, we don’t counsel him to skip out on hearing Confessions or saying daily Masses or encouraging him to cease with the Divine Office. So why on earth would we tell a mother struggling to be a good mother to leave the home, fulfill herself in a career, and put the kids in the hands of another person?

Makes no sense. With every vocation comes a multitude of grace. Ask for help, you will be given it.

Anyway, this thread isn’t about all this, and those who took offense at it thinking that some of us were here to bash the working mom read waaaay too much into things. We were merely defending one woman’s choice to stay at home in spite of many others telling her that choice was irresponsible and perhaps against the will of God.

Like I said earlier, daycare is not for everyone. Just because some women can use it (and tolerate with pain the guilt or sadness they feel that comes with it) does not mean that other women can handle it. But that doesn’t mean that one is a better mother than another. It just means we are different and see our own personal roles as mothers differently.

 

[Eliza10]

…Now do you, or you Malia, seriously think that a mother who is incapable of adequately mothering should subject either herself or her children to substandard parenting once it’s clear that she is unlikely to improve much or incapable of much improvement? To the child’s serious detriment and her own frustration?

Would you suggest that someone who is trying to be a musician or an artist and after an investment of time and effort shows little or no improvement, should continue beating their head against a wall, or should they look instead to fulfil themselves in that work which they CAN do, and leave the art and music to those who ARE capable of doing those things?..

Malia gave a really excellent answer to this so I stand with what she said.

 

[Eliza10]

I agree that if someone isn’t able to be a good wife, we don’t counsel them to stay away from their husband as much as possible so as not to damage him. .

…

If someone isn’t able to be a good priest, we don’t counsel him to skip out on hearing Confessions or saying daily Masses or encouraging him to cease with the Divine Office. .

…

So why on earth would we tell a mother struggling to be a good mother to leave the home, fulfill herself in a career, and put the kids in the hands of another person? .

…

Makes no sense.

…

Anyway, this thread isn’t about all this, and those who took offense at it thinking that some of us were here to bash the working mom read waaaay too much into things. We were merely defending one woman’s choice to stay at home in spite of many others telling her that choice was irresponsible and perhaps against the will of God. …

I bolded this becaues this is clarity. Thank you.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Really well said, Malia. You made good points!

Thanks… I feel very strongly about this topic and am trying to come across as clearly as I can.

This is a good point too, Malia. Though I am sure you mean Switzerland. (Thats okay, you’ve done a lot of typing!)

**LOL…can I have a little credit for knowing it was an “S” country? **

Excellent, Malia.

I too agree that being a wife and mother is a vocation - a calling from God - and He gives the graces needed to succeed in that vocation if we ASK Him for them and if we embrace them. It is not comparable to a career. Careers aren’t “callings” like vocations are.
**
Ok, since we both agree that motherhood is a vocation/calling…is that the ACTUAL Catholic perspective? I can find tons of resources stating that marriage is a vocation…just want to be absolutely sure.**

I agree that if someone isn’t able to be a good wife, we don’t counsel them to stay away from their husband as much as possible so as not to damage him.

Exactly. Although we may advise a temporary separation WHILE he is working on the issues…especially if they are dangerous. Same should go for moms.

If someone isn’t able to be a good priest, we don’t counsel him to skip out on hearing Confessions or saying daily Masses or encouraging him to cease with the Divine Office.

Exactly.** Although I am sure there are cases where ordained priests can have other priest jobs (for lack of a better term:shrug that would utilize their strengths if they found, after receiving counsel, that they really were unable to meet the responsibilities of a parish priest… just like for some moms, there are other options if they TRULY cannot be a good mother. But we should never advise either not to at least try to improve.**

So why on earth would we tell a mother struggling to be a good mother to leave the home, fulfill herself in a career, and put the kids in the hands of another person?
**
Because it’s her CHOICE. **

Makes no sense. With every vocation comes a multitude of grace. Ask for help, you will be given it.

Malia gave a really excellent answer to this so I stand with what she said.

thanks

 

[LilyM]

Oh, St Josemaria Escriva and St Catherine of Siena, among others, would beg to differ about a career NOT being a vocation - it is, when pursued diligently, a means of doing God’s will on earth, and of sanctifying both ourselves and others. In a similar manner as priesthood, motherhood, or marriage.

Many many priests who are struggling with their calling are indeed counselled (and rightly in a lot of cases) to take at least a short period of ‘time off’ to discern whether to stay in the priesthood or not. They may go to Mass still, and say their divine office still (many laypeople do these things too) but not SAY Mass or minister the other sacraments. And some, equally rightly, choose not to return after their discernment.

A bad priest (and it is diffficult to be a good one when you’re seriously struggling with the vocation) is an unmitigated disaster for a congregation, as many of us see in our own parishes every day. So is a bad mother for a child, or a bad spouse for their partner.

We certainly shouldn’t dare to judge anyone’s heart to say that they ‘haven’t tried hard enough’ or are simply being selfish - we simply don’t know, not literally walking in their shoes. And charity demands that we think the best possible of everyone in every circumstance.

Interesting point - the church permits legal separation and divorce where there is no hope of reconciliation between a married couple, and laicises bad priests who aren’t doing their office effectively, as well as those who simply cannot continue with the calling. But according to you, mothers are not to be afforded even a few hours a day away from their child to work, no matter how much damage is often done to both them and the child by their staying and how much greater good can be done by their working?

Ok, my well-and-truly-more-than :twocents: has been expended on this thread. Take it for what it’s worth, I’ll stay away from now on for the sake of my blood pressure, and I heartily apologise if I’ve been less-than-charitable to anyone here. :grouphug:

There are as many styles of ‘good motherhood’ as there are good mothers out there, one size does NOT fit all. And God doesn’t, I know from personal experience and observation and reflection, call us all to be June Cleaver-style moms, or even SAHMs, it’s not at all the best thing for every mother or every child.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Oh, St Josemaria Escriva and St Catherine of Siena, among others, would beg to differ about a career NOT being a vocation - it is, when pursued diligently, a means of doing God’s will on earth, and of sanctifying both ourselves and others. In a similar manner as priesthood, motherhood, or marriage

**I just read up on both of them…not sure what you mean.

And some careers can be vocations if that is what God wills…but not the sacrifice of another vocation. Like if a man is a wonderful, gifted heart surgeon, is it then good for him to give himself over to that entirely if he has a wife and children? Or maybe God was calling him to fulfill his medical vocation and then he decided he WANTED a family too even though it may not have been his calling. Just an example.**

Many many priests who are struggling with their calling are indeed counselled (and rightly in a lot of cases) to take at least a short period of ‘time off’ to discern whether to stay in the priesthood or not.

Taking time off for the sake of discernment is not in anyway like a mother saying “I can’t do this, I would rather do…” and giving up.

They may go to Mass still, and say their divine office still (many laypeople do these things too) but not SAY Mass or minister the other sacraments. And some, equally rightly, choose not to return after their discernment.

I can’t don’t know about this type of situation. But it seems to me that a priest not returning after a time of discernment is not the same as a mom who works to avoid her mothering responsibilities that she feels she can’t deal with and allows institutionalized daycare to instill morals and values and still calls herself mom. I wonder if the priest still sees himself as a priest?

A bad priest (and it is diffficult to be a good one when you’re seriously struggling with the vocation) is an unmitigated disaster for a congregation, as many of us see in our own parishes every day. So is a bad mother for a child, or a bad spouse for their partner.

Yes, but in ALL of those cases the person should receive help to improve…not be told that if it’s too hard to go off and pursue something easier or more desirable.

We certainly shouldn’t dare to judge anyone’s heart to say that they ‘haven’t tried hard enough’ or are simply being selfish - we simply don’t know, not literally walking in their shoes. And charity demands that we think the best possible of everyone in every circumstance.

**That is why this is in general terms. I would not presume to know an individual’s heart…not my place. But in the hypothetical situations I have described I know the motivations because I made that person up. **

Interesting point - the church permits legal separation and divorce where there is no hope of reconciliation between a married couple,
**
which is an absolute last resort. I think the Church frowns on separations or divorce that occur because either spouse didn’t want to sacrifice or put in the work necessary to have a healthy marriage. **

and laicises bad priests who aren’t doing their office effectively, as well as those who simply cannot continue with the calling.

Again, don’t know about the truth here. Does that mean a priest is no longer a priest…he can just quit? Or he is relieved of his duties but unable to pursue other vocations (like marriage)?

But according to you, mothers are not to be afforded even a few hours a day away from their child to work

**A few hours…you mean 3? No one I know, man or woman, is only away from home for a total of 3 hours a day. **And again, you make it sound like they need to escape their child(ren) in order to fulfill their need to work. Seems like the priorities are backwards…

and SAHM’s (or dads) do not have to be with their children 24/7…just that their children are their number one priority. If one has a job then that usually becomes one’s priority or else they will be fired.

, no matter how much damage is often done to both them and the child by their staying and how much greater good can be done by their working?

Do you think that a woman off in a career is doing more “good” than raising her children? That’s how I read it. Also, how much harm is potentially done to a child who knows his/her own mom can’t stand to be around them for more than a little bit at a time and actually prefers working over spending time with them?

Ok, my well-and-truly-more-than :twocents: has been expended on this thread. Take it for what it’s worth, I’ll stay away from now on for the sake of my blood pressure, and I heartily apologise if I’ve been less-than-charitable to anyone here. :grouphug:

There are as many styles of ‘good motherhood’ as there are good mothers out there, one size does NOT fit all. And God doesn’t, I know from personal experience and observation and reflection, call us all to be June Cleaver-style moms, or even SAHMs, it’s not at all the best thing for every mother or every child.

God calls us all to our own path. The problem lies in the discernment of that path. Women tend to lack support from society when their “choice” is to stay at home a raise their babies… and get tons of support to go out and work and be of “value” to society…so at the slightest twinge of feeling inadequate a woman is not supported through her struggle but rather told that it’s perfectly fine to give up and get a real job

 

[LilyM]

Under protest I’ve been drawn back in.

On the point about Sts Josemaria and Catherine’s views, here’s a snippet from wikipedia about Opus Dei, St Josemaria’s organisation (my emphases):

“Similarly, Opus Dei stresses the importance of work and professional competence.[40][41] While some religious orders encourage their members to withdraw from the material world, Opus Dei’s members are exhorted to “find God in daily life” and to perform their work excellently as a service to society and as a fitting offering to God.[42][43] Opus Dei teaches that work not only contributes to social progress but is "a path to holiness",[44] and its founder advised people to: “Sanctify your work. Sanctify yourself in your work. Sanctify others through your work.”[45]
The biblical roots of this Catholic doctrine, according to the founder, are in the phrase “God created man to work” (Gen 2:15) and Jesus’s long life as an ordinary carpenter in a small town.[46] Escrivá, who stressed the Christian’s duty to follow Christ’s example, also points to the gospel account that Jesus “has done everything well” (Mk 7:37).[47]"

I was reading some of St Catherine’s letters a while back, and will quote them when I can lay my hands on them again, but she did go into great detail about how the different professions - from rulers to judges to merchants down to humble woolworkers could use their specific occupations as a means of glorifying God … and then in exactly the same vein discusses the way in which the same can be done by mothers. No great distinction between the two types of vocation.

And for the record, Malia, I DO think, on some occasions, that a mother who stays at home when she seriously doesn’t want to and seriously is not doing (even with help) a passable job as a SAHM IS doing harm both to herself and her child.

And as a child of a mother who worked full-time, both because she had skills as a doctor that were needed, and frankly because she enjoyed the challenges of her job and both gives and gets a lot out of doing it, she was and remains an excellent mother and I wouldn’t trade her for anyone else’s.

And I heartily resent your implications that

a) she was somehow shirking on her task of instilling morals and values in myself or her other children.

Like I said earlier, if a 30-second commercial on TV can instil the desire for junk food in a child, then a mother who spends every morning, evening and weekend with her children can certainly instil morals in them and anything else they need to know - if she has the desire.

Furthermore even the things they learn about her through her work itself can and do serve as moral instruction.

Mum used to tell us about how she refused to prescribe contraception and would counsel against abortion because these were against church teaching, and Dad (also a doctor) used the story of a sick baby (as Mum could doubtless have done just as easily) to teach us about the importance of infant baptism and his belief in the teaching of Limbo.

ANY occupation, I am sure, offers similar teachable moments when one discusses them with one’s child.

b) that we were somehow lacking anything that we either needed or wanted

or

c) that we were ever given to feel that she didn’t love us completely and didn’t love being with us completely or ‘second-best’ vis a vis her work.

Her role as a doctor no more competes with her role as a mother than her role as a wife does. They’re all complementary sides of the same wonderful coin

For what it’s worth I absolutely agree with you that there should be more support for mothers who choose to stay at home. At the same time someone who chooses to serve God by combining a career and motherhood should also not be put down for that choice - or branded as selfish or bad mothers who aren’t doing their job as mothers properly.

 

[Katie1723]

…to make it seem like I am equating working moms with being selfish…just that in some cases that is true.

The same way that SAHM think they are the “better” mother for staying home. That isn’t always the way it is.

Kathy

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

The same way that SAHM think they are the “better” mother for staying home. That isn’t always the way it is.

Kathy

**Nothing in life is an absolute. But will exit the thread on this note:

children NEED their parents. If a father is already working to provide for the family then the mom should be around MORE, not LESS. And if mom has a great career and supporting the family, then DAD should be HOME. If neither of those option is possible then extended family should be the next choice for caring for the children. No one should be fooled into thinking that strangers can provide equal care. Whether that be a nanny, a day home, or an institutional day care system.

Children are only little for such a short time. They are a gift, not a right. God places these innocent babies in our lives so WE can care for them, teach them, and raise them into adults who will continue on with God’s work. It is a huge responsibility that so many parents take way too lightly.

I’ve made all of the points I needed to make and I will not post anymore. I am having some struggles as a stay at home mom right now with a challenging child and a hubby who is away. So I need to go and take care of the two of us. I am glad that Lily will know that her mommy was always there for her and sacrificed so much for her good and didn’t give up when the going got tough. I hope she will be able to pass that on to her own children if that is her calling in life…**

 

[whatevergirl]

**Nothing in life is an absolute. But will exit the thread on this note:

children NEED their parents. If a father is already working to provide for the family then the mom should be around MORE, not LESS. And if mom has a great career and supporting the family, then DAD should be HOME. If neither of those option is possible then extended family should be the next choice for caring for the children. No one should be fooled into thinking that strangers can provide equal care. Whether that be a nanny, a day home, or an institutional day care system.

Children are only little for such a short time. They are a gift, not a right. God places these innocent babies in our lives so WE can care for them, teach them, and raise them into adults who will continue on with God’s work. It is a huge responsibility that so many parents take way too lightly.

I’ve made all of the points I needed to make and I will not post anymore. I am having some struggles as a stay at home mom right now with a challenging child and a hubby who is away. So I need to go and take care of the two of us. I am glad that Lily will know that her mommy was always there for her and sacrificed so much for her good and didn’t give up when the going got tough. I hope she will be able to pass that on to her own children if that is her calling in life…**

**I am glad to see this thread turned a corner. It was becoming a bit judgemental in here. Thank you for this post, Malia…it’s along the lines of what I think about it all.

The reality is, that in our corners of the world, we might have all the answers–for our own circumstances and families. But, the world is a huge place, with diverse people, not all Christian…not all willing to accept things as we see them. It’s important to try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Only then, can there be any hopes of understanding on either side.

When my kids were born, through their toddler years, my dh and I wanted one parent home. My dh had a great job, before he was layed off, and I stayed home. It worked for us. But, he was layed off when my youngest turned 4…so, I decided to head to work. I didn’t work many hours, I temped, and now some 8 years later…I’m working in a great job, and my kids are older. But, had I had the better job, my husband would have stayed home. I’m glad that you said what you said…

This has been a roller coaster thread. Glad to see some common ground is being found. **

 

[SeekerJen]

Malia, you weren’t so far off with Sweden. Sweden remained neutral during WWII, to the point that Jews were being smuggled in across the sea from Nazi-occupied Denmark.

As for working vs SAHM: it depends on the family. My mom stayed at home until I was 10, while Dad worked long hours in a factory. As much as I liked having Mom home, I wish that she would have worked at least part time so that Dad could have been home more. There were years when he worked 12-16 hour days, sometimes 7 days per week. When he was home, he was often asleep on the sofa. Because of how things worked out, I am still not very close to my father even at age 30 and we had a very rocky relationship when I was a teenager and young adult. He was home more than and we barely knew each other. Dad’s even told me that his one regret is not spending more time at home when I was younger. We really missed out on a lot because of it.

Yeah, it’s nice to be a SAHM. You don’t ever have to worry about who’s watching your kids. But please don’t pretend that it’s always best, it’s always the superior choice, that there aren’t trade-offs for both the kids and the working father.