Husband/Work - male responses encouraged

[Tosk]

I don´t see any reason to apologize; he is being a lazy bum and you have a right to be ticked off. He needs to go and get a job flipping burgers or bagging groceries until a better job comes along his way. Either that or he needs to wear an apron, have the house nice and clean, dinner cooked, and wait on you when you get back from work. There is no reason you should have to work and do everything at the house while he watches the tube and eats potato chips.

Tell him it is time to put on his big boy underwear and get to work. How on earth doe he think it is ok to go without work for close to a year?

 

[PaulinVA]

I went about this all the wrong way. I should have just planted little seeds daily “can you do X today?” instead of making a big conversation. Unfortunately it’s too late for that. If I let it drop, he’ll calm down and act like nothing is wrong - but the next time we get stressed/fight, he’ll bring it up again. He’s obviously very hurt.

:: shuttingmybigmouth ::

–

Okay, I have been married 25 years and I think that sometimes you just have to have that big conversation.

Why is it that men think that they can just sit around and do nothing while their wife/mother does all the work? There might be a small amount of sense if the wife stays home and the husband works, although the husband should still do his part when he’s home. BUT, when you’re the one who is home all day it takes a lot of chutzpah (and we’re Catholic, not Jewish) to expect your wife to come home and clean up after you. Wow.

If you are not contributing financially because you are out of work, then the cars better be well maintained, the garbage taken out, the laundry done (and iron her stuff once in a while), AND at least a few nights a week you should have dinner started. Plus, you should be jogging or working out.

Sorry. I just gotta vent. My wife has been very patient with me. (and I have had to be patient with her…) The question is - “If I respect my wife, and respect myself, what will I fill my day with”. The goal is to get through the period of unemployment BETTER than when you started.

 

[EmBee]

I can’t say whether you went about it wrong or not because I don’t know you guys well enough, but I can explain his reaction.

He was embarrassed. He was embarrassed because he’s known all along that he should be doing more to help out. His first reaction was anger. That’s when he started to vacuum to “show you” that he does pull his own weight, and lashed out at you. Then he feels bad for getting angry and tries to escape (he takes a shower). Now he’s shutting down. That’s when you say things like “I can’t do good enough for you so you can control everything, that’s the only thing that will make you happy!”

I’ve been there, I’ve done the same thing to my wife. Writing this is actually very cathartic for me. Thank you for the opportunity.

As to how to move forward, it’s going to take time. I actually think that lists work best. In the situation where he got mad because his pants weren’t dry, he can’t really be mad at anyone but himself. It was on his list, he should have done it. This is a good lesson for him to learn.

Let me be clear: don’t set him up to fail. Don’t put things on his list in the hopes that he doesn’t do it and then learns lessons. However, that will happen and that’s how he will learn.

I hope this helps. At the very least, writing it has helped me. Thanks again. I’ll be praying for you.

I think your explanation of his actions is spot-on. I will keep plugging along with the lists, thank you!

–

 

[tcm22]

I think your explanation of his actions is spot-on. I will keep plugging along with the lists, thank you!

–

EmBee, I wholeheartedly salute your practical approach to the issue.

Marriage is great, but anyone who says it is always easy or fun is lying. The strength of your marriage isn’t judged on how well your partnership works when things are good, but on how it holds up when things are tough. That’s when you need to rely on God and the grace provided to you by the Sacrament. Even if you are struggling, God is always there and is the most reliable partner in your marriage.

Let me ask something: It’s clear this issue bothers you and is on your mind. You’ve discussed it with your husband on several occasions. If he’s got any sense at all, he knows it’s a problem. Is he concerned that the situation bothers you? Does he have any suggestions to help YOU?

Maybe if you put it to him that way, he may think about it beyond his own wants and desires. Something like "You know this is something we’ve got to figure out. I think you understand my concerns. I know your heart is set on being a full time pilot, but I really need some help right now. What do you think we we should do to work this out?

 

[Truly_Beloved]

Em, forgive me for only briefly skimming your thread, in case I repeat what someone else has already said.

Do you know about the Jet Careers Forums? Jet Careers is a website founded by a First Officer with Delta, Mr. Doug Taylor.

When my husband was pursuing aviation, this site proved to be very helpful… You’ll find lots of people who have been where you are (and lived to tell about it), and a few who are going through the same struggles currently. For many reasons, my husband gave up his dream of being an airline pilot after the terrorist attacks of 9/11 (he made it only so far as to get his commercial license and was going to work on his instructor’s stuff), so I’m afraid that I personally can’t offer anything more than a referral to Doug’s site.

They have a family subforum, where the wives get together and share their experiences; I hope you can find some much needed support and companionship there! God bless.

 

[EmBee]

Let me ask something: It’s clear this issue bothers you and is on your mind. You’ve discussed it with your husband on several occasions. If he’s got any sense at all, he knows it’s a problem. Is he concerned that the situation bothers you? Does he have any suggestions to help YOU?

Yes, he knows it bothers me. I think (part of?) the problem is that when I talk, I usually point out the negative side of things so he has to sift thru all my complaints and figure out what is important and what is just chatter. He has asked me to be more positive on more than one occassion (I’m fairly cynical, he’s a total optimist). I am trying, but it’s not something I’ve been able to change overnight. I’m sure that when I talk to him about things he can do to help, I also put him down by pointing out the things he doesn’t do.

From our recent discussions, his solution is for me to have a positive attitude and be respectful of him. I know that If I could just stay upbeat, he would do anything for me! I am trying and am committed to giving 110% to our relationship, but somedays I get fussy and only want to give that 110% if he does too. Well, I need to grow up and understand that I ought to give 110% no matter what. It’s just so hard (oh look, here I go complaining) …

He means well and tries hard. He is stressed out and I’m not always the easiest to understand. I will continue to work on being more transparent so he can begin trusting what I say instead of trying to figure out what I mean, but I’m going to stand my ground with needing more help around the house.

Em, forgive me for only briefly skimming your thread, in case I repeat what someone else has already said.

Do you know about the Jet Careers Forums? Jet Careers is a website founded by a First Officer with Delta, Mr. Doug Taylor.

Yes, my husband is on jetcareers. We’ve gotten some helpful advice about career paths/ANG/etc from the site, and the people there are also straight up about how grim the industry is right now. It’s good for networking and Drew seems to enjoy discussing his experiences with others in his situation. Plus, they have a pretty funny “joke” section Thanks for the comment, Beloved.

–

 

[EmBee]

You really need to be talking about these sorts of things everyday. In the morning just have a brief chat. “honey, what ar your plans for today?” Then, “Great, can you pick up some hamburger and grill for us tonight?” I have found that my husband is much more likely to cook dinner than say throw in a load of wash. If he will at least handle the groceries and dinner, that will make coming home from work much nicer for you.

Also, once dinner is over just ask him to do a few things at the same time that you do a few. “Hey, I need to throw in a load of laundry, can you bring the dirty clothes down please? And hey, grab those shoes and take them up on your way. Thanks honey!”

Has he looked for another job at the airport? Perhaps there is something behind the scenes that he can start doing? Even bookkeeping or cleaning planes would keep him close to what he loves, but also bring in more income.

Sally, this is great advice. I think he will respond much better to these little everyday cues than he did to our big conversation. Re: another airport job - he’s at he the airport a lot hoping to pick up more students/network. Pilots who are getting furloughed from regional airlines are stepping down to be ‘lowly’ flight instructors … totally backwards. We’ll move anywhere (even Alaska!), the jobs just aren’t there.

–

 

[whatevergirl]

So, talked to the hub last night. I tried to be objective and not get emotional. I explained that I wasn’t trying to blame/shame him, but I do need more help around the house. I told him I understood why he couldn’t just pick up a part time job right now. There was a lot of silence and then he got up and vaccumed and started the laundry. When he finally sat down he told me I was being disrespectful, that he is constantly looking for jobs and he does vaccum. He said he doesn’t help around the house because I’ve spent too long doing things on my own and turning down his offers to help (he used to offer to help all the time) that now he just doesn’t want to help anymore. It turned into a long, ugly conversation. Afterwards he took a shower and I went for a walk. When I came home he was playing his video game. I was pleasant and we ate some ice cream.

This morning I left him a note asking him if he had time to please make the bed and finish the laundry. He texted me upset that his pants were not dry and he had to go to work. It was obvious he was still upset… He eventually said that I should make all the decisions about our relationship/money from now on because obviously that’s what I want.

I went about this all the wrong way. I should have just planted little seeds daily “can you do X today?” instead of making a big conversation. Unfortunately it’s too late for that. If I let it drop, he’ll calm down and act like nothing is wrong - but the next time we get stressed/fight, he’ll bring it up again. He’s obviously very hurt.

:: shuttingmybigmouth ::

–

Could be hurt, could be passive aggressive behavior. It sounds it to me, sorry, just think we need to stop dancing around the issue. You shouldn’t have to beg your husband to do the chores when he’s home all day…shouldn’t have to walk on eggshells just to explain that you’re tired of doing it all on your own. Not saying you need to rant rave and yell…no, not at all. But, he needs to do his part at home, whether working or not…and so do you. You are working, he needs to take care of the house, there is nothing else to discuss, in my eyes. He can have a tantrum if he likes, but he’s a man now, and tantrums are for babies. I don’t mean to sound harsh, I realize your husband is under stress…SO ARE YOU. Please do not ‘shut your mouth’ and allow your husband to put all of this on you, as if it’s your fault. Things change. His job changed…we have to sometimes make adjustments in our lives, when things change. Hopefully, he will find something soon–and then, things will change again. But, this…you should be careful how you say this or that…No, he needs to know that enough’s enough. Unless he is physucally ill, or depressed, which he doesn’t sound to be…he needs to stop stomping around with the vaccum, and joyfully do his part right now. He might not like, many things in life we don’t like…oh well. You don’t like I’m sure having to cook, clean, and work all at the same time, and come home to a man playing video games.

Ok, I’m off my soapbox. I don’t mean to sound harsh, and I’m not implying or suggesting that you need to nag or anything…I would simply have a conversation with your husband. And he needs to hear you out, and appreciate your feelings, and you appreciate his. Then, move on, and work together.

I try to be very understanding and compassionate…and I understand your husband’s situation. But, situations like this bug me. Women who stay at home as housewives, or with their kids, know that taking care of the home is what they need to be doing…but, why don’t men do this ‘automatically’ if they are home, and not working? Not implying all men think like this, but there seems to be a tone in this thread, that you need to ask him this way or that…or leave notes…or say this or that. Why? He should automatically see that things need to be done, and since he is not working fulltime, it is only logical that he should be doing these things.

I’m in agreement with Paul on this…*

 

[tcm22]

Yes, he knows it bothers me. I think (part of?) the problem is that when I talk, I usually point out the negative side of things so he has to sift thru all my complaints and figure out what is important and what is just chatter. He has asked me to be more positive on more than one occassion (I’m fairly cynical, he’s a total optimist). I am trying, but it’s not something I’ve been able to change overnight. I’m sure that when I talk to him about things he can do to help, I also put him down by pointing out the things he doesn’t do.

From our recent discussions, his solution is for me to have a positive attitude and be respectful of him. I know that If I could just stay upbeat, he would do anything for me! I am trying and am committed to giving 110% to our relationship, but somedays I get fussy and only want to give that 110% if he does too. Well, I need to grow up and understand that I ought to give 110% no matter what. It’s just so hard (oh look, here I go complaining) …

He means well and tries hard. He is stressed out and I’m not always the easiest to understand. I will continue to work on being more transparent so he can begin trusting what I say instead of trying to figure out what I mean, but I’m going to stand my ground with needing more help around the house.

–

EmBee, your response here confirms for me that the problem isn’t your attitude but his. If his solution to sitting around the house watching TV and playing video while you work is for YOU to be more positive and respectful, then I think he’s got it backwards.

I’ve been a horribly flawed husband for 20 years now, but I’ve managed to learn a few things along the way. I don’t respond well to nagging, but I’m also smart enough to realize that, while I might not like the form of the message, my Dear Wife is usually on target with what she is trying to tell me.

I agree with Whatevergirl that this smacks of passive/aggressive behavior to some degree. I had a guy that worked for me once who was very intelligent, but never seemed to get anything done. It took me about 2 years to figure it out, but eventually I noticed that whenever I asked him to do something he always had a list of things that he needed me to do before he could start.

Granted, the context isn’t the same, but your post above sounds eerily similar.

Does he really understand your concerns or is he just reacting to your criticism? From what I can glean from your posts, I don’t see anything to suggest that he grasps the real problem your presenting but is reacting to your methods and emotions and avoiding the real questions that need to be answered.

It’s easier to criticize you for not “respecting him” than it is to admit that he ought to support you better. It goes to the essence of partnership in a marriage. You are not out of line to expect him to be an equal partner and to make an effort to understand and address your concerns. That’s what being a husband is all about. It doesn’t sound to me like he’s ready to address the fact that it’s “not about him.”

Be loving, patient, and calm, but you also shouldn’t be expected to back off what are reasonable expectations.

 

[sanctareparata]

I’m with whatevergirl on this one. I am sorry you are in this situation, esp after such a short time being married! I hope you two can learn to discuss like two married adults before things get more uncomfortable.

From our recent discussions, his solution is for me to have a positive attitude and be respectful of him. I know that If I could just stay upbeat, he would do anything for me! I am trying and am committed to giving 110% to our relationship, but somedays I get fussy and only want to give that 110% if he does too. Well, I need to grow up and understand that I ought to give 110% no matter what. It’s just so hard (oh look, here I go complaining) …

So, in order for HIM to be happy and in order for HIM to listen to you and work with you, you have to do as he says? You can’t point out the things he doesn’t do, you can’t express your concern with him sitting at home, and you can’t act dissatisfied with the present arrangement because it’s disrespectful? Yet it’s totally okay for him to leave the house a mess, not commit to any PT or FT work, and play video games while you come home after a day’s work and still need to clean up after him? That’s not disrespecting YOU?

He means well and tries hard.

Do you really, honestly believe this or are you making excuses for him? You don’t need to answer me. I just wanted you to think about this, because a man who refuses to pull his weight to me is not meaning well or trying hard.

And to whomever said this:

Let me be clear: don’t set him up to fail. Don’t put things on his list in the hopes that he doesn’t do it and then learns lessons.

…he’s her husband, not her child. Setting him up to fail? He’s a big boy. He just needs to put away the video games and take some responsibility.

Em - What are your plans if he *never *finds FT pilot work? Then what? Is he going to keep resisting getting a job elsewhere?

 

[whatevergirl]

Em Bee, hang in there…just know this is not about you. You are being very patient and tolerant, from what you write here. Now there are two sides to every story, I know that. But, from what you post, it sounds like you have done all you can do. I will be praying for you–I hope that you take everything we have said in the spirit it’s intended, to help you see and to encourage you that sometimes, in marriage, we have to take some painful steps towards growth.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Just offering one more thing to you, Em.

Sometimes, our marriages get a little lost in life’s details. Sometimes, what seems to be a situation about housework, or your dh’s job, really are symptoms of something else. Not saying you have marriage problems, or you need counseling…but, if over time, your husband doesn’t change his behavior and responses to doing housework while he’s working sporadic work hours, it might mean that counseling could be a next step. I would also recommend getting away for a retreat, or just for a romantic weekend somewhere. Sometimes, spouses just need to get away from the setting that they’re arguing in, to gain a fresh perspective.

It might do you both wonders to take a break. Maybe offer that.

My dh and I used to argue like this a lot. It would go something like this…I do this, well I do this, well I do this, well I do this …it really doesn’t help the marriage. lol Not saying you are both doing this, but I can sense your husband is starting to go there. Marriage, as beautiful as it is, sometimes can be challenging. Something as simple as housechores, can be a topic for debate, at times.

So, don’t sweep this under the rug. Pay attention to the subtle positive changes your husband makes…those count! Everything counts in marriage, and hopefully, you guys can get past this. It’s a rough patch, and it can be a great opoprtunity for your marriage to stretch and grow…but, only if you are BOTH working on it. Praying for you always! *

 

[dixieagle]

So, talked to the hub last night. I tried to be objective and not get emotional. I explained that I wasn’t trying to blame/shame him, but I do need more help around the house. I told him I understood why he couldn’t just pick up a part time job right now. There was a lot of silence and then he got up and vaccumed and started the laundry. When he finally sat down he told me I was being disrespectful, that he is constantly looking for jobs and he does vaccum. He said he doesn’t help around the house because I’ve spent too long doing things on my own and turning down his offers to help (he used to offer to help all the time) that now he just doesn’t want to help anymore. It turned into a long, ugly conversation. Afterwards he took a shower and I went for a walk. When I came home he was playing his video game. I was pleasant and we ate some ice cream.

This morning I left him a note asking him if he had time to please make the bed and finish the laundry. He texted me upset that his pants were not dry and he had to go to work. It was obvious he was still upset… He eventually said that I should make all the decisions about our relationship/money from now on because obviously that’s what I want.

I went about this all the wrong way. I should have just planted little seeds daily “can you do X today?” instead of making a big conversation. Unfortunately it’s too late for that. If I let it drop, he’ll calm down and act like nothing is wrong - but the next time we get stressed/fight, he’ll bring it up again. He’s obviously very hurt.

:: shuttingmybigmouth ::

–

Herein is contained one of the roots of the problem; he “used to offer to help all the time” but you turned down his offers.

I think a lot of women, newlyweds and not, tend to try to do everything around the house themselves, because their husbands don’t complete tasks up to their satisfaction. So, we rush around doing everything, until the resentment builds up and we explode.

You are both very, very young, and have a lot to learn about communication, expectations, shared responsibility. It’s not easy, believe me (I’m a 35 year-married mother of two married daughters in their 20s.) Clearly, you are more than willing to learn and right any wrongs. Perhaps, as he is not responding well to conversation at the moment, a little love letter might break the ice; apologize for turning down his earlier offers of help, and let him know that you really do need him. Express your confidence in his ability to land a pilot’s job when the economy improves, and admit that you simply cannot do it all.

See where that leads, and then take it from there, taking cues from his reaction.

Bottom line - treat each other with respect, gently express your feelings, but know that both of you need to pull your weight. He can’t wallow in hurt feelings forever; he is an adult, married man, and needs to act like it. (And that’s how you need to treat him, as well.)

 

[whatevergirl]

well said, dixie! :clapping:

 

[Becks]

I’m with whatevergirl on this one. I am sorry you are in this situation, esp after such a short time being married! I hope you two can learn to discuss like two married adults before things get more uncomfortable.

So, in order for HIM to be happy and in order for HIM to listen to you and work with you, you have to do as he says? You can’t point out the things he doesn’t do, you can’t express your concern with him sitting at home, and you can’t act dissatisfied with the present arrangement because it’s disrespectful? Yet it’s totally okay for him to leave the house a mess, not commit to any PT or FT work, and play video games while you come home after a day’s work and still need to clean up after him? That’s not disrespecting YOU?

Do you really, honestly believe this or are you making excuses for him? You don’t need to answer me. I just wanted you to think about this, because a man who refuses to pull his weight to me is not meaning well or trying hard.

And to whomever said this: …he’s her husband, not her child. Setting him up to fail? He’s a big boy. He just needs to put away the video games and take some responsibility.

Em - What are your plans if he *never *finds FT pilot work? Then what? Is he going to keep resisting getting a job elsewhere?

The tone that you use in this statement is a tone that may work very well in motivating your husband; however, it is not a tone that would work if you used it in trying to get me to help out more around the house. I would react angrily, then remove myself from the situation, which is exactly what the OP’s husband did in the instance to which I was responding. My suggestion for the OP was based on experiences that I have had with my own wife. I wrote my explanation of why he acted the way he did because I have acted similarly, and I gave a suggestion that I thought might help based on things that did help me.

I don’t believe that you should ever put someone in a situation hoping that he will fail, whether he is your husband or your child.

 

[sanctareparata]

I don’t believe that you should ever put someone in a situation hoping that he will fail, whether he is your husband or your child.

No one said she is hoping he fails.
Nor am I hoping he fails.

I don’t know what you mean about “tone”. I am writing wife to wife. I never said she should tell this stuff to her husband. Nor do I think her telling him what I told her will change him.

Just like others mentioned perhaps her DH was passive aggressive. That’s an observation they made for the OP. They didn’t intend for the OP to go tell her hubby he’s passive aggressive.

These are just insights offered so she realizes that she doesn’t need to back down, nor should she. And that she equally deserves respect.

I think you are reading my post as though I’m talking to you or to her DH, which I’m not.

 

[Becks]

sanctareparata,

Perhaps I did take your post incorrectly. I thought you were giving the OP ideas for what to say to her husband. I apologize.

 

[MCGar]

I think many of your responces are spot on! I think the only thing you need to apologize for is giving him mixed messages by declining his help in the beginning and being overly pessimistic in the past.

I would go to him and tell him you’ve thought about it and are really sorry for those actions, you plan on putting your best foot forward so BOTH of you can work together to be more supportive of each other and happier.

Don’t give up on having a checklist of things for him to do. But also, maybe you can help him out by using the reward system. When he cleans the house or does certain things, be very appreciative and have a ‘pick-me-up’ reward in mind.

I say this because it sounds like he is slightly depressed and overwhelmed with stress about his job and is stuck in a rut that he is not happy with.

For example; “Oh thank you so much with the laundry! Now we have time to be able to go on a picnic, or go play tennis…hey let’s invite your friends!”

My hubby likes the house presentable whenever we have any visitors over so I like suggesting bringing his friends over once in a while to hang out or cook out, etc.

On the weekends we are trying to reorganize our guest bedroom into a nursery (in desparate need of actual places to put things), so it takes us a while but I tell him, hey, let’s work on it together for 4 hours and then go out and see a movie, or whatever he’s been really wanting to do (like get lost in Best Buy or Home Depot)

We have more of an equal house-work sort of marriage especially because of my back issues, but I think rewarding ourselves a little after doing dull housework helps alot in marriage.

Also, I have an idea about helping him get out and active that might not interfere too much with his job search. There are courier jobs that people can take on a case by case bases. Although he wouldn’t be piloting himself, it does involve traveling by air. He could try that and see what sort of contact he could get and maybe network a little. Put his name out there and see what other options there are at the moment.

 

[MCGar]

p.s. I also agree that he is passive-aggressive. But I find that alot of passive-aggressive people don’t really realize what they are doing or have mean intentions. They just have learned to behave in that manner automatically and don’t really see their actions from another person’s perspective.

I was very passive-aggressive when I was younger and have mellowed out over the years, but it wasn’t until my husband talked to me and told me that I was being verbally abusive that it shocked me into looking into how I talked to him sometimes (not all the times, just when I was uber-stressed) He told me alot of my barbs, comments were made to make him feel bad about himself instead of helping him understand what I wanted. wow.

It’s helped alot learning a new way to communicate. I just say what I want and he literally does his best. If I’m disappointed or angry I can talk to him about it too, just not in a passive-aggressive way.

That being said, this is probably not the time to bring up your husband’s passive-aggressive ways.
Maybe you could get a book or read up on how to communicate with passive-aggressive people. It might help alot.

 

[estesbob]

From this 57 year old males standpoint let me tell you what most males wont admit. The 4 words a man fears the most from his wife are “we need to talk”

You should apologize for your snarky remark and he should help around the house. You said the fnances were not a problem so i would give him his year but make it clear that if it doesnt turn up then he has to have a Plan B.

And BTW-he should NEVER watch “House” without you.