Husband's Affair and Offspring Thereof

[holy_face]

Because the Church sees you as already married.

This thread might be an interesting read.

I understand the Church’s position, you are still considered married and must obtain an annulment before remarriage.

But you are not considered living in sin if you separate and obtain a civil divorce, only if you try to marry again without an annulment.

I don’t agree with the Church on this issue, to me they are clearly mistaken regarding the scripture, Christ clearly made an exception for immoral acts (adultery) but I am obliged to follow it so long as I am Catholic.

I would leave my spouse and try for an annulment in the case of adultery.

 

[marymary1975]

I think it’s supposed to be a parallel to the also fairly trollish “my wife got pregnant because of a bar fling with a black guy” thread running right now. It’s probably supposed to demonstrate that people have a double standard for men and women and are much easier on straying women. As you may have noticed, there’s a big Men’s Rights push going on right now on CA.

That said, in my husband’s family back in Europe, there was a case where an out-of-wedlock child of the husband was raised alongside their biological kids (early 20th century?). I don’t know what the marital repercussions of that were, but nobody in the younger two generations knew about it, which suggests the wife did a pretty good job of sucking it up and treating the kids equitably. It only came to light when going through a deceased grandma’s effects.

I don’t know if this is a trolling attempt but what Xantippe is saying up here ^^ is a very good point. Having read both threads I must say there is a massive double moral here. There is quite an anger over the third party woman but I don’t find the same anger towards the male who equally sinned and who is equally morally responsible for the sin and whom…between the husband and the wife should be the person to be accounted for. In fact, reading this thread I find a sublime tone of her being assumed the bad one and some kind of he is not as responsible as her. That is not good. I do know how how angering cheating be (I was a cheated wife once) but we cannot let sentimentalism to blur the objective vision of morality.

I do think Jon S had a very good point when he said that this is why pro-choicers argue so fiercely that prolifers only care for a fetus but don’t care about the living children and think that women are disposable. I have to agree that most comments do not reflect an objective view of the situation and are very partialized

Again I don’t know if this is a trolling attempt. Sincerely the other one didn’t seem trolling but in any cheating situation the unborn child is innocent so the idea of “the child will remind me of the event” is not acceptable for the simple reason that you are placing the blame on the wrong person (isn’t that the same we aregue when pro choice ran suggest that abortion in rape cases should be acceptable…well same here) If the cheated spouse feels that the child reminds her/him of the cheating that means that the cheated spouse holds hatred towards the cheating spouse and if we remember our religion teaches us not to hold hate. So instead of trying to justify hate and try to place the burden on innocent shoulder the cheated spouse needs to learn to forgive and forget.

Now whether in this case she should stay with her husband is a different question. He may be a serial cheater, there may be more behind him that we don’t know that may require her not to stay with him. As Jon S said forgiveness does not requiure her to stay around. If it would be best then she should leave. However, if she doesnt want to leave and after a concius analisis of the situation she decides that is best to stay, if he is truly repented, if she indeed is willing to forgive him fully and she wants to save her marriage, you cannot expect her to forgive without having to face the consequence of his sin. If she forgives she must bear in mind that there are consequences to sin andshe needs to face them. If she is going to forgive she has to forgive FULLY which includes no resentment against the child and no blaming others and making an adult decision as to face all the consequences of his sin with God’s guidance, in a moral way If she is not willing to do this, this is just recipe for trouble and suggesting to her to stay with half forgiveness and trying to hide the wrong with more wrongs is not the christian thing to do.

Second, is true that legally speaking he has no say as to abortion and is neither his or his wife’s responsibility. Morally speaking I am sorry is not that easy. He does have a moral responsibility to try to stop her from abortion and his wife should remind him of his moral responsibility. The it is not my responsibility, I can’t do nothing, that is up to her. That sounds like Pontius Pilate attitude and again, we cannot call ourselves pro life if we are taking that attitude. You do have to look at things from the child’s perspective and we cannot expect only for the woman to give birth and then what? It is mentioned here that the woman does not want to be a mother. Do any of you suggesting only well give the kid in adoption realistically believe that in the US a woman who does not like children, who does not want to be a mother and who probably be an awful mother is going to realistically put herself through pregnancy and childbirth? Or do you think she is going to do a diligent job of putting the child in adoption? She is not! Reality here: the baby is one inch away of being aborted and oh just give the baby in adoption is not a good advice in this situation.

I think that UnCatholicBride has given so far one of the best and in point advice’s. Your husband does have a responsibility, remind him of his responsibility.

 

[Jon_S_1]

The word used was porniea, which is defined in the Greek dictionary as a whole list of immoral acts including fornication, adultery, prostitution, etc.

The church has given annulments based on an adulterous marriage, they may have had to do a little legal maneuvering to do so but it happens.

yet they offer annulments and suggest that people in abusive relationships separate from their marriage.

You are allowed to separate from your spouse and even divorce them without being in a state of sin, it is only when you attempt to remarry when it becomes difficult.

I was told separation was not sinful but instigating and filing for divorce was except for the rare instance that you must do it to divide property and care for kids. In the US you can do that with a legal separation.

So the catechism says divorce is grave matter, my priest confirmed, I further see why, and I divorced for physical abuse of me and my kids.

So I think that one should carefully consult with their priest before declaring divorce is not sinful. The catechism describes some of the reason it is sinful as:

2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.178
2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I would urge you to read canon law on when it is acceptable to sever conjugal living. Whether or not a marriage was valid is secondary. The Church says an innocent spouse does not have to stay with a cheating one.

The church makes a huge difference between legal separation and divorce. You should study the difference.

I have read and poured over countless catholic documents and spoken to multiple priests. It is my personal situation I need to understand!

I hope you all dig in deeper on it too

 

[Jon_S_1]

Again with the false dichotomies.

There are many, many possible approaches.

It is not selfish to consider the feelings of the wife and the other children. You seem only concerned with the husband and his mistress. The first concern should be for the innocents and they are not the innocents.

No one said he should play no part nor to hide if from the other children. But, depending on the age of the other children, it could be very harmful to force this child upon them. It’s one thing to let them know they have a half-brother/sister. It’s another things to insinuate this other woman and her child into their lives. They did nothing wrong and should not be punished for their father’s sins. Not only that, they may come to hate their father for hurting their mother and hold it against their half sibling.

If it was me, I would tell my husband to encourage his mistress to place the child for adoption. Placing a chid for adoption is not abandoning the child If the mother didn’t want to do that, I would tell my husband to get a second job and to use the money from the second job to provide for his ‘love child’. (there is a more accurate word to use but CAF probably would x it out). He needs to take responsibility but not at the expense of his family. The only way I would even* consider* bringing this child into my home would be as an adoption provided the birth mother relinquished all claims and agreed not to have any contact with the child or my husband until the child was 18. And then I would probably move my family far, far away.

What you are missing is that the child is already right now part of his family.

 

[Corki]

What you are missing is that the child is already right now part of his family.

No, he/she is not. His family is his wife and **their **children. This child is part of a non-familial relationship with another woman. Neither his child nor his mistress is part of his family and won’t be unless he were to adopt the child into his family with his wife’s permission. The fact that the child has a familial bond with both his mother and father does not give him automatic entrée into the existing family of his/her father.

 

[Corki]

The church makes a huge difference between legal separation and divorce. You should study the difference.

I have read and poured over countless catholic documents and spoken to multiple priests. It is my personal situation I need to understand!

I hope you all dig in deeper on it too

The Church’s definition between separation and divorce is mostly related to the legal environment where the couple lives. In many states in the US, for example, there is no such thing as a legal separation other than as a temporary state while a divorce is being finalized. The Church recognizes that a divorce is in many cases the only legal way to have a permanent separation.

 

[marymary1975]

,
If it was me, I would tell my husband to encourage his mistress to place the child for adoption. Placing a chid for adoption is not abandoning the child If the mother didn’t want to do that, I would tell my husband to get a second job and to use the money from the second job to provide for his ‘love child’. (there is a more accurate word to use but CAF probably would x itmovement He needs to take responsibility but not at the expense of his family. The only way I would even* consider* bringing this child into my home would be as an adoption provided the birth mother relinquished all claims and agreed not to have any contact with the child or my husband until the child was 18. And then I would probably move my family far, far away.

Adoption would be a good suggestion if it was the case where the woman is strugglIng economically or where she has doubts. In this scenario the woman does not have doubts, she dislikes children and doesn’t want children. Adoption in this scenarios will sound to her as I get away free and clear from this trouble while you and solely you deal with it for nine months and then have to resolve it with adoption (place yourself in the mind of a person influenced by the pro choice movement who already has the guts to have an affair with a married man). That woman is going to laugh on his face turn around and go straight to the abortion clinic. Also, this man already didn’t think about his family when he got involved into an affair so trying to fix the problem.as if there is no consequences for him is not going to work. Unfortunately this is a very difficult situation in which there may be no way to solve it without affecting the children of the marriage and no way to solve it without a strong burden on the wife because he already didn’t think about his family and he already acted on expense of his family. Probably the best option in her case would be to speak with her priest to help discern if she should leave him or if the priest considers that there is value in her attempting to save her marriage to do it with spiritual guidance in a way that she truly can forgive.

 

[Jon_S_1]

The Church’s definition between separation and divorce is mostly related to the legal environment where the couple lives. In many states in the US, for example, there is no such thing as a legal separation other than as a temporary state while a divorce is being finalized. The Church recognizes that a divorce is in many cases the only legal way to have a permanent separation.

This is completely false. I would hope you educate yourself before dispensing advice that can negatively impact someone’s soul.

Here are the list of 43 States that allow permanent legal separation.

Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

 

[Corki]

This is completely false. I would hope you educate yourself before dispensing advice that can negatively impact someone’s soul.

Here are the list of 43 States that allow permanent legal separation.

Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

How is that “false” if you only list 43 states? If 43 states have it, then 8 do not (since the District of Columbia is on your list). I live in Texas, not on your list BTW. There is no such thing as permanent legal separation in Texas or in several other states. The Church does not require something that is not civilly possible.

If a person wishes to pursue a permanent separation from his/her spouse, he/she is supposed to get permission from the bishop. The Bishop, more than you or I, is going to be informed about both the canon law and the local civil law and will make his determination based on the combination. I can only speak in generalities as can you. Generalities are not going to “negatively impact someone’s soul” if the specifics will be investigated by an expert.

 

[Jon_S_1]

How is that “false” if you only list 43 states? If 43 states have it, then 8 do not (since the District of Columbia is on your list). I live in Texas, not on your list BTW. There is no such thing as permanent legal separation in Texas or in several other states. The Church does not require something that is not civilly possible.

If a person wishes to pursue a permanent separation from his/her spouse, he/she is supposed to get permission from the bishop. The Bishop, more than you or I, is going to be informed about both the canon law and the local civil law and will make his determination based on the combination. I can only speak in generalities as can you. Generalities are not going to “negatively impact someone’s soul” if the specifics will be investigated by an expert.

Saying “many states in the US” leads one to believe the majority when in fact it is less than 20%.

That was my point. It would have been more correct to say a few states.

Those few states fall into the divorce exception mentioned…the other 43 don’t.

 

[Corki]

Adoption would be a good suggestion if it was the case where the woman is strugglIng economically or where she has doubts. In this scenario the woman does not have doubts, she dislikes children and doesn’t want children. Adoption in this scenarios will sound to her as I get away free and clear from this trouble while you and solely you deal with it for nine months and then have to resolve it with adoption (place yourself in the mind of a person influenced by the pro choice movement who already has the guts to have an affair with a married man). That woman is going to laugh on his face turn around and go straight to the abortion clinic. Also, this man already didn’t think about his family when he got involved into an affair so trying to fix the problem.as if there is no consequences for him is not going to work. Unfortunately this is a very difficult situation in which there may be no way to solve it without affecting the children of the marriage and no way to solve it without a strong burden on the wife because he already didn’t think about his family and he already acted on expense of his family. Probably the best option in her case would be to speak with her priest to help discern if she should leave him or if the priest considers that there is value in her attempting to save her marriage to do it with spiritual guidance in a way that she truly can forgive.

Yes, it’s a very sad situation and hopefully the OP has a good priest to advise her.

If the pregnant woman is determined to have an abortion, there isn’t much that can be done to stop her. It certainly wouldn’t be expected that the wife would be responsible. She can certainly choose to intervene as an act of charity but she is not any more culpable for the woman killing her baby than she was for her husband committing adultery. Nor should she be expected to incur more pain and possibly hurt her own children in order to keep this woman from committing a second horrible act.

 

[Jon_S_1]

How is that “false” if you only list 43 states? If 43 states have it, then 8 do not (since the District of Columbia is on your list). I live in Texas, not on your list BTW. There is no such thing as permanent legal separation in Texas or in several other states. The Church does not require something that is not civilly possible.

If a person wishes to pursue a permanent separation from his/her spouse, he/she is supposed to get permission from the bishop. The Bishop, more than you or I, is going to be informed about both the canon law and the local civil law and will make his determination based on the combination. I can only speak in generalities as can you. Generalities are not going to “negatively impact someone’s soul” if the specifics will be investigated by an expert.

Saying “many states in the US” leads one to believe the majority when in fact it is less than 20%.

That was my point. It would have been more correct to say a few states.

Those few states fall into the divorce exception mentioned…the other 43 don’t.

And if you really think Catholics are going to their bishop before filing divorce, I think you need a reality check.

 

[Corki]

Saying “many states in the US” leads one to believe the majority when in fact it is less than 20%.

That was my point. It would have been more correct to say a few states.

Those few states fall into the divorce exception mentioned…the other 43 don’t.

And if you really think Catholics are going to their bishop before filing divorce, I think you need a reality check.

No, according to the dictionary “few” is two or three. If you are going to correct my choice of words, “few” is no more correct. “Several” would possibly be more accurate and that is the word I used in the post you are quoting here. Eight would be “several”. Many does not imply “most” only an amount that is greater than “a few”.

And if you really think Catholics are going to their bishop before filing divorce, I think you need a reality check

If a Catholic is concerned about the canon law nuances between a legal separation and a civil divorce, he/she would also be aware of the requirement for ecclesial permission.

 

[Jon_S_1]

No, according to the dictionary “few” is two or three. If you are going to correct my choice of words, “few” is no more correct. “Several” would possibly be more accurate and that is the word I used in the post you are quoting here. Eight would be “several”. Many does not imply “most” only an amount that is greater than “a few”.

If a Catholic is concerned about the canon law nuances between a legal separation and a civil divorce, he/she would also be aware of the requirement for ecclesial permission.

I don’t want to argue over grammar. The tone and point of your post was to indicate a lot of states do not allow legal separation.

The truth is “many” or “a lot” or “a majority” or “all but a few” allow legal separation.

The dictionary definition of few does not equal “2 or 3” all though 2 or 3 could be a few based on context.

few
fyo͞o/
adjective & pronoun
1.
a small number of.
“may I ask a few questions?”
used to emphasize how small a number of people or things is.
“he had few friends”
synonyms: scarce, scant, meager, insufficient, in short supply;

 

[marymary1975]

Yes, it’s a very sad situation and hopefully the OP has a good priest to advise her.

If the pregnant woman is determined to have an abortion, there isn’t much that can be done to stop her. It certainly wouldn’t be expected that the wife would be responsible. She can certainly choose to intervene as an act of charity but she is not any more culpable for the woman killing her baby than she was for her husband committing adultery. Nor should she be expected to incur more pain and possibly hurt her own children in order to keep this woman from committing a second horrible act.

No, I don’t think either that the wife should be expected to be responsible. What I don’t think is a good idea is under the specific circumstances to tell the husband he should suggest an adoption as a way of him to do the right thing. Under this specific circumstances his suggesting adoption is almost as bad as saying yeah go have an abortion. Now I do think the wife needs to tell her husband to put on his pants and take responsibility for his actions, and I do think that the man needs to tell the woman that abortion is not acceptable and accept his own responsibility. If you ask me personally (and under this specific circumstances where she has yet to make her mind…in the other thread, he decided to stay) she should leave but the course of action may be better discern with the help of a spiritual counselor.

As to her kids, while yes she should minimize the damage to the children, again it is unrealistic to think the kids are not going to suffer. The damage is done and truth is children do pay the consequences of their parents’ sinful actions and that is why the church is so strongly against this kinds of sins and why insist so much in marriage, fidelity, family but people do not get that so we end up with these messes. The children will get affected one way or the other so it is not realistic for her to think that there is a morally acceptable solution in which nothing is going to happen. She must lesser the damage as.much as she can but every morally licit solution is going to require sacrifice on all parties.

 

[PlainJane1980]

Wow! Just wow! I’ve been accused of trolling and so many have turned this into a “this thread” versus “that thread” thing. I Google’d the topic of raising kids that aren’t yours from infidelity and it led me here. I thought a Catholic forum would be a place of healing and guidance. Instead I see its the same garbage found elsewhere. Sad!

Look, I’m staying with my husband. That was never a question and we’re going to work it out. I was looking for some support in raising this kid since I’m totally furious now and not thinking straight. I read the other thread and to be honest I do notice a difference in tone. That’s unfortunate. Regardless of the reason I sincerely hope none of you go through it because you probably won’t find a forum of strangers who could put aside politics and give consistent meaningful advice.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Wow! Just wow! I’ve been accused of trolling and so many have turned this into a “this thread” versus “that thread” thing. I Google’d the topic of raising kids that aren’t yours from infidelity and it led me here. I thought a Catholic forum would be a place of healing and guidance. Instead I see its the same garbage found elsewhere. Sad!

Look, I’m staying with my husband. That was never a question and we’re going to work it out. I was looking for some support in raising this kid since I’m totally furious now and not thinking straight. I read the other thread and to be honest I do notice a difference in tone. That’s unfortunate. Regardless of the reason I sincerely hope none of you go through it because you probably won’t find a forum of strangers who could put aside politics and give consistent meaningful advice.

You got some opinions. Hopefully some advice. I hope you have an idea of what the church teaches regarding loving others, family and marriage. It seems you are on a good path. Meet with a priest to work through the details. They are there for you and your family.

 

[marymary1975]

Wow! Just wow! I’ve been accused of trolling and so many have turned this into a “this thread” versus “that thread” thing. I Google’d the topic of raising kids that aren’t yours from infidelity and it led me here. I thought a Catholic forum would be a place of healing and guidance. Instead I see its the same garbage found elsewhere. Sad!

Look, I’m staying with my husband. That was never a question and we’re going to work it out. I was looking for some support in raising this kid since I’m totally furious now and not thinking straight. I read the other thread and to be honest I do notice a difference in tone. That’s unfortunate. Regardless of the reason I sincerely hope none of you go through it because you probably won’t find a forum of strangers who could put aside politics and give consistent meaningful advice.

I am sorry that your thread was turned into that but unfortunately, the timing of your thread happened to be right after someone else in the other thread said something along the lines of if another thread would come up instead with a woman whose husband cheated and got another woman pregnant then the advice would be drastically different. Do not take it personal, as it was a coincidence and who knows, maybe we have God with this showing us how the different tones we give with different sexes is not precisely what he wants.

As I said before, I think you need to talk this situation with your priest. It is a very difficult situation and if you decided you are staying you need spiritual counseling. Talk to a priest, get a marriage counselor and try to work this out in a charitable way.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

I commented in the other thread. Will pretty much say the same here:

First, the OP’s husband committed the mortal sin, that is very firmly on him, no two ways about that. But it is good that the OP in this thread and the OP in the other thread both acknowledged that they had played a part in creating the environment which left their respective spouses vulnerable to temptation. It cannot possibly be overemphasized that marriage is a team effort, each party needs the help of the other party to resist temptation. That often means working on oneself to be the kind of person the other party wants to be with; the husband can do more work on himself, the wife can do more work on herself.

We have no idea if the other woman is promiscuous. Get a paternity test in addition to STD tests for both the OP and her husband.

The OP’s husband has the moral obligation to talk the other woman out of having an abortion. It is unfortunate, however, that fathers have no legal say in this matter, the OP’s husband cannot compel the other woman to bring the baby to term.

If the other woman chooses to keep the baby rather than giving it up for adoption, the OP’s husband is on the hook for child support regardless of the OP’s wishes in this matter. Hence the importance of the paternity test.

The different attitudes shown in this thread and the other one are unfortunate and emblematic of double standards. Cheating is the most grievous mortal sin one can commit against marriage, regardless of sex. Adultery resulting in pregnancy only drives that knife deeper into the heart, again regardless of sex. The betrayed spouse has every right to be angry and asking that betrayed spouse to take on the resulting child is asking a LOT, regardless of sex. Certainly, the Christ-like response is to forgive and to accept the child into the family. But forgiving also comes with the caveat: “go and sin no more”. But we are fallen people, such forgiveness may be too much to ask hence adoption has to be on the table.