Husband's dirty magazines

[hasikelee]

My thoughts run similarly to the posters. I also would have waited for hubby to come home so I could talk to him. Mainly, this is not just a sexual issue. He is also making financial choices without sharing with you.

Essentially, he is not only trying to engage in a practice that you feel hurts you and your marriage, he is also attempting to hide it from you, practice independent/rude behavior and make financial decisions without including you.

I would also be waiting for him because you never know. Innocent until proven guilty! What with identity theft, infected firewalls and playboy’s very agressive marketing, it could have been possible that this wasn’t his doing.

For example, my friend had his medical records disclosed/sold and received a ton of junk mail including playboy subscriptions. It even escalated to identity theft, which he is still recovering from.

This may not have been the case for your hubby, but I think it is also good to maintain a positive mindset in marriage.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Forgive my curiosity, but did he also keep the debating urge in check? I do have a problem with that and the last girl might have been pushed away by that.

Bless him, he tried, lol. But, like I said we are both stubborn. Looking back, we each could have done things differently, but hindsight is 20/20. If we weren’t already married, his debating ways would have pushed me away…so you should work on that. As it is, we were on the brink of divorce (both of our faults) for the first couple of years of marriage. NOT a happy way to live . But thanks be to God, we are now happy and Christ centered in our marriage.

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Malia

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Sleep deprived and still offering up wise advice…girlfriend, you ARE amazing!! (great post!)

Thank you.

**Some people have hobbies…I have you guys, lol. **

Reading about problems that aren’t related to babies and being able to offer advice based on my experiences helps keep me sane in my now upside down topsy turvy world.

Malia

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

I agree. What Fenaro’s wife wrote shows a lot of maturity and wisdom.

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**Thanks, but that is only because I have not been faced with that situation, lol. If I found a Playboy in my mail and saw that my hubby had subscribed, i probably would have acted the same way. **

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That is why I love these forums. I get exposure to so many of the things that can come up in life and it gives me a chance to think logically about the right reaction. THEN, if I am ever faced with it, I can remind myself of the right thing to do.

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Malia

 

[rayne89]

I agree. What Fenaro’s wife wrote shows a lot of maturity and wisdom.

The initial reaction might be to treat one’s husband like a child and block access to the internet. THe problem is that this doesn’t solve the problem. It only hides it. If the husband is sneaking around looking at porn through his office computer or the public library then the problem remains even if the wife does not know it.

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My husband works at a machine shop -so there’s no office computer and he does not go to library. This was years ago. He has complete access now and we haven’t had any issues. I’m more computer savvy than him trust me I’d find it. My husband is a recovered alcoholic I don’t think keeping alcohol out of my house “hides” the problem it removes the temptation. Could he get it some where else? Sure, but I’m not going to make it easier for him. (He’s been sober about 10 years now -so no problems there either.)

I did not feel good about treating my husband like a child believe me. But I also wasn’t going to stand by and watch a situation spiral downward either. Porn is like a drug for the mind and he if he was going to get it it wasn’t going to be in from our home. This is my home too and I have the right not to have that garbage in my house.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Before we purchased the computer we discussed the issue of porn and he swore up, down, and sideways he would not look at such sites. The pre-requesite for getting th computer was if I discovered porn we would cancel our internet. Which I had every intention of doing when I found it in the history. He didn’t want me to cancel it so the only other option I accepted was changing the password.
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You guys obviously had an agreement about this prior to the incident. So, in my opinion, you were justified to “treat him like a child” because he knew that was the consequence. I think in the OP’s situation, if her and her husband had no such agreement, she was wrong to treat him like a child instead of talking to him like an equal.

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Malia

 

[Peterdiago]

I would argue that the OP did precisely what she is entitled and has a duty to do IF her marriage is sacramental. I presume that it is, although she does not make it clear.

If she is sacramentally married, then she and her husband are “one flesh”. If he is getting Playboy for the pictures of pretty girls and not the fine investigative reporting that well-known bastion of good journalism has in its pages, then he is guilty of lust - which is adultery. That is a direct afront to his wife, and a mortal Sin.

The action of looking at girly magazines not only harms the wife, her husband and their marriage, but also the women in the magazine and all women. It damages his relationship with any and all women he meets.

The price of this is simply too steep to pay - and it has absolutely no benefit.

When a man commits adultery, he forgoes all rights to be treated as an adult - he is acting like a child and should be treated as one.

To forestal the inevitable arguments;

i) He doesn’t know or understand the fact he has committed adultery by lusting after Cherri Treats or whatever the latest Playboy centerfold is called;

Answer : He should, and ignorance is no excuse. To expect his mates in the bar who are oggling the barmaid to know is unfair - they are not married to a Catholic wife. But he is - and is the responsibility of a husband to find out what his wife expects from the marriage. In their case, the rules concerning adultery and pornography are very, very clear - and they are easily available from the CCC and the Bible. It doesn’t matter if he is not spiritual - the wife is and he should find out about and respect her views. If he does not find out, or does not respect those views, there are bigger problems that a simple girly magazine.

If he does not respect her views and considers it okay to look at pictures of pretty girls and lust after them, then he is trampling over his wife’s views - which is horrific.

If, as is more likely, he doesn’t understand because he never bothered to find out then he is a little inconsiderate and thoughtless. The wife should explain the situation to him - and see how he responds. But she should not have to allow such things into her house and life.

Answer this question, all the wives here - if it happened that Cherri Treats met your husband in a bar and they started to have a sexual relationship, would you be happy with it? If she turned up at your house dressed provocatively and with every intention of satisfying sexual urges which she was going to create through slutty and available behaviour, without creating any consequences or relationship - would you let her in to wait for him in his den or the bathroom?

Before you say that example is ridiculous, remember that that magazine - if used as a method of creating lust - is exactly that. Men look at those magazines (I am a man - I know what I talk about!) simply to become aroused and create a fantasy in their head. These fantasies revolve around lust - which is a desire for sexual satisfaction without any consequence. The woman is objectified.

There is no spiritual difference as far as your husbands are concerned to allowing Playboy into your home as there is to allowing a prostitute - both allow for consequenceless sexual gratification. Both result in the objectification of women and the removal of sexual desire and acts from the creation of life. The only difference lies in the physical realm and the fact that the prostitute is more adversely affected (usually) than the glamour model.

I would not expect a wife to allow a slut to come and sit in lingerie on the sofa to wait for her husband to come home - I would expect her to tell her that she is not welcome and that she has to leave. And if she had control over the money paid to a prostitute, I would expect her to refuse to pay the bill.

 

[litllulu]

I must get in this conversation! You did the right thing whether or not your marriage is sacramental. I am not sure why a valid marriage outside of the sacrament would be any different. A man needs to be a man, he can NOT play such foolish games with his wife, family, or soul.

 

[jman507]

How much does it matter if what you did was right or wrong, it’s water under the bridge. Close relationships ends up with toes stepped on that’s just the way it is. It could be the best thing you could have done or the worst. The more important thing is the issue now is on the table. You have to pick your battles, and by the sounds of it, you think this is worth it. So now it’s time to figure out how best to go about it.

 

[kell0618]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**2354 ***Pornography *consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.

 

[Peterdiago]

I am not sure why a valid marriage outside of the sacrament would be any different.

If it’s not Sacramental, then the marriage is unlikely to have been made under the terms of a Christian covenant, and therefore the husband cannot be expected to obey Christian precepts regarding pornography. A wholy secular marriage does not necessarially forbid or even imply the forbidding of porn - one only has to look at the large sales of pornographic movies to married couples to see that.

A Sacramental union includes Christ - a non-Sacramental one does not. If it is non Sacramental, then the husband (while certainly committing a Sin) isn’t actually breaking any specific rules of the marriage.

 

[litllulu]

If it’s not Sacramental, then the marriage is unlikely to have been made under the terms of a Christian covenant, and therefore the husband cannot be expected to obey Christian precepts regarding pornography. A wholy secular marriage does not necessarially forbid or even imply the forbidding of porn - one only has to look at the large sales of pornographic movies to married couples to see that.

A Sacramental union includes Christ - a non-Sacramental one does not. If it is non Sacramental, then the husband (while certainly committing a Sin) isn’t actually breaking any specific rules of the marriage.

Sorry, I know plenty of Jews and Muslims who also think that playboys and other pornography is wrong. Its called respect for your wife, it is the natural law. Lust is not something only Christians forbid. I have never heard of any marrital vow, Christian or not, accepting lust as part of a marriage. Fr. Groeshell said that some of the Jewish people he knows are the best Christians he knows. Another words, Christianity is an action. I don’t tolerate Lust nor do my non-“Christian” friends.

 

[Peterdiago]

I have never heard of any marrital vow, Christian or not, accepting lust as part of a marriage.

Merely because you have not heard it does not mean it is not real. Given that secular marriage makes no reference to anything except in the most vague terms, it certainly permits it unless the partners forbid it.

While your comment about the natural law is true, it only serves to illustrate my point. I made it very clear that the husband in a non-Christian marriage is doing harm to himself and others by using porn. In a secular marriage, however, there are no rules that forbid it unless introduced separately.

Fr. Groeshell said that some of the Jewish people he knows are the best Christians he knows.

He’s wrong Jews are lousy Christians - the whole “not believing that Jesus Christ is the Messiah” thing scuppers them.

Another words, Christianity is an action.

Do you mean “In other words”? In any case, that statement is a little too simplistic - especially given your earlier statement that some Jews make good Christians. Christianity, it is true, is a faith of actions and works and deeds as well as belief - but what makes someone a Christian is obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ as Messiah. You cannot simply say that people who do not believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah but who happen to adhere to a number of the moral points He made are Christian. They may be good people, but they are absolutely not Christian. Christianity begins with belief in Christ as the Messiah - it then moves onwards into action.

I don’t tolerate Lust nor do my non-“Christian” friends.

At which point you are fortunate in your friends - but there are many people who do not. And most non-Christian belief and moral systems allow for and even encourage lust, even within marriage. Your view is skewed by the fact you live in a predominantly Christian country where women are regarded as full people; outside of this very narrow framework, lust is the generalized norm.

 

[litllulu]

Merely because you have not heard it does not mean it is not real. Given that secular marriage makes no reference to anything except in the most vague terms, it certainly permits it unless the partners forbid it.

While your comment about the natural law is true, it only serves to illustrate my point. I made it very clear that the husband in a non-Christian marriage is doing harm to himself and others by using porn. In a secular marriage, however, there are no rules that forbid it unless introduced separately.

He’s wrong Jews are lousy Christians - the whole “not believing that Jesus Christ is the Messiah” thing scuppers them.

Do you mean “In other words”? In any case, that statement is a little too simplistic - especially given your earlier statement that some Jews make good Christians. Christianity, it is true, is a faith of actions and works and deeds as well as belief - but what makes someone a Christian is obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ as Messiah. You cannot simply say that people who do not believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah but who happen to adhere to a number of the moral points He made are Christian. They may be good people, but they are absolutely not Christian. Christianity begins with belief in Christ as the Messiah - it then moves onwards into action.

At which point you are fortunate in your friends - but there are many people who do not. And most non-Christian belief and moral systems allow for and even encourage lust, even within marriage. Your view is skewed by the fact you live in a predominantly Christian country where women are regarded as full people; outside of this very narrow framework, lust is the generalized norm.

Please don’t speak ill of Fr. Groeshell, He is definitely one of the holiest priests I have ever heard speak.

 

[Writer]

I need some advice here. Recently, my husband received a magazine in the mail. Since the magazine was in a wrapper that hid the cover, I became suspicious. I opened it and saw it was an issue of Playboy. I threw it away, and I never said anything about it to him. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and thought that maybe he had received an offer for one free issue, and, in a moment of weakness, he ordered a free issue. I’m not condoning this at all, but I was hoping this was a one time thing and then it would be over. Well today I got the credit card bill. The credit card is in his name only, I have a different card that is in my name only. Since I take care of the finances, I opened the bill, and saw that there was a charge to Playboy for a year’s subscription. I was disappointed that my husband would do such a thing, and I thought it was incredibly stupid that he charged it to his credit card, since he knows that I pay the credit card bill every month and that I would see this. Well, I called the number on the credit card statement and cancelled the subscription. I will talk to him when he arrives home later. Was I right in going ahead in cancelling the subscription?? I personally felt I had the right to do so because I do not allow garbage like that to come into my home. Just as a background, my husband is not Catholic, or very spiritual at all. But I am hoping and praying for his conversion. Any advice??

I think you most certainly did the right and ethical thing. Your husband needs a good talking to. After reading some of the prior posts, I think it’s important to note that people need to use real care and discretion as to the kinds of things welcomed into homes. If we’re not watchful, we may be inviting other “things” into our homes when we allow morals to plunge in terms of entertainment, etc. You are simply defending your household, your family. What is better…an argument with an annoyed husband, or having a family member dealing with a sexual addiction? In a husband/wife situation, I agree that you have the authority to veto things like this, and I think to turn a blind eye to them would be the wrong ethical choice–even though it is the easier decision. When is condoning evil a good thing?

 

[Peterdiago]

Please don’t speak ill of Fr. Groeshell, He is definitely one of the holiest priests I have ever heard speak.

I say nothing ill of him, nor do I suggest he is not a holy or decent man. I do, however, say that he is wrong. He is not the Pope, and therefore cannot claim to be infalible. Even the Pope can only be infalible on doctrinal matters - and the idea that Jews can be good Christians is not doctrinal. It is simply, flatly, wrong. Jews are Jews and are lousy Christians - because they do not accept Jesus Christ as Messiah. They are not followers of Christ - which is what Christian means.

If what Fr. Groeshell means is that there are many Jews who are good and decent people who happen to have moralities which correspond with certain aspects of Christian morality, he is correct. His intention may be correct, but the words he says are absolutely not. And they could lead to people uncertain of their faith to infer that Christianity is more about a few generalized moral rules rather than a Person and what the Person said and did, and told us to do.

Jews are not Christians - unless you speak of Jews as an ethnic rather than religious group, or you speak of a few in the very early Church. Even then, however, the two terms were used distinctively and to show that a difference existed.

 

[Asella]

I would like to thank all of you for your responses to my question. I spoke to my husband, and I believe that our marriage has come to an end. He said some very hateful things to me that I cannot repeat on here because it would not be appropriate language for this forum. Once again, thank you for the advice.

 

[Peterdiago]

I am so sorry to hear that the end result was anger and hurtful things. I am also very sorry that you think that your marriage has come to an end (putting aside issues such as the fact marriage is indisoluble, I understand what you mean).

I will, of course, pray for you. And I will add, again, that I considered your actions to be perfectly in line with not only your rights and perogatives, but also your duties as a Christian spouse.

If I might pry, do you believe that the sole cause of this breakdown and anger and so forth is the Playboy magazine situation, or are they additional issues at work here? What I mean to ask is, has he reacted like this simply because you got rid of his girly magazines - or are there other issues which this has brought to a head?

If it is the former, then he seems to be quite childish (to say something that will cause a wife to want to end a marriage simply because of a cancelled girly magazine subscription is very childish in my view) and it may be very hard to overcome such problems. If it is the latter and there are more problems than just the girly magazine then, ironically, it may be easier to solve as you can talk like adults.

In any case, I am very sorry it turned out the way it did. You did what I consider to be the right thing and I will pray for you and your husband.

 

[rayne89]

I would like to thank all of you for your responses to my question. I spoke to my husband, and I believe that our marriage has come to an end. He said some very hateful things to me that I cannot repeat on here because it would not be appropriate language for this forum. Once again, thank you for the advice.

Asella I’m so sorry your husband reacted the way he did. Would you and your husband consider a Retrouvaille weekend? Please consider speaking to priest for some guidance. I will pray for you both.

 

[mariam1976]

dear asella… i dont know if i am the right person to tell you this… becos i am going through a divorce right now and i was hurt by a lot of words that my husband said and i know that at that time i was hurting so bad that i felt that it would be better to just end it… but i know now that the marriage covenant is more important than anything my dear…
the pain is incredible when the anger subsides and i dont want you to go through the same pain that i went through… please please please reconsider… talk to someone before taking this decision which will change your entire life…
if possible go to divorcecare or counselling with someone before doing this!!!

will be praying for you… dont make the same mistake that i did… Retrouvaille is a great option!