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Counterpoint
Guest
I really don’t want to continue arguing the point because it’s trivial.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
I assume you mean “Did I forgive him?” I struggle with it, for two reasons. One is that it was deliberate, and he acted like that pretty much all the time that I was subject to him.
The other was not so much what he did, since those actions are all past events, but what he cost me in terms of vocational expectation. In destroying my confidence, I missed out on several opportunities which would have made my working life a lot more fulfilling.
The old pastor that he mentioned, whom I did think was “great”, once said to me in his office, “I don’t think you realise just how much this father of yours has cost you. I’m wondering what you’ll do when you do realise.”
Anyway, I struggle with it.
I wonder why God sent him sometimes. I suppose God couldn’t use him for anything else, so maybe what happened to him might serve as a warning to others. That same judgment waits for all of us.
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Mr_Clean
Guest
I know you view this hypnagogic state as some sort of out of body spirit realm. If that’s so can you give us some insight as to why?
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Counterpoint
Guest
Yes, I view the hypnagogic state as a portal to other realms, namely, the astral realm. This is based on personal experiences. I have encountered various psychic entities during this state. I have also experienced many OBEs (out-of-body experiences) during this state.
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Counterpoint
Guest
The following is a You Tube interview with David J. Hufford, professor emeritus of medical anthropology, authority on hypnagogia/sleep paralysis, and author of “The Terror that Comes in the Night.”
“Sleep Paralysis” interview with David J. Hufford
“Sleep Paralysis” interview with David J. Hufford
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Thanks for this great link. This sure seems to be a spiritual force. People sense it is evil and when they pray, no matter what culture they are from, the shadow man goes away and they can move again. Very fascinating. Also in our scientific age, most people won’t tell other people about their experience with this unless they really trust the person to know that they aren’t crazy. However in older times and in more primative cultures, this is a well-known phenomena with names for it. For example, in Scandinavian cultures it was know by the name Mara - from which our word nightmare comes from.
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Counterpoint
Guest
That’s right. Most people are unaware that a nightmare is actually a supernatural assault, not a bad dream.
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
I’ve never had this experience, but according to the video, upwards of 20 percent of all people have had at least one episode. I’m going to have to read the book.
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Mr_Clean
Guest
Are you comfortable making the leap to this assumption?
I watched the video btw. Interesting stuff - I watched some of the other videos on youtube and can see a some what general consensus that the phenomenon is supernatural. Can this be proved though?
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Counterpoint
Guest
I’m not making any assumption. That’s the historical meaning of the term “nightmare.”Counterpoint:
Are you comfortable making the leap to this assumption?
All I can do is present the evidence and let you decide.
Catholicism definitely teaches that demons exist. Jesus himself was, among other things, a prominent exorcist.
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Counterpoint
Guest
I also wanted to say that this is something that you can explore for yourself. But I should add a caveat. You do so at you’re own risk.
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annem
Guest
Counterpoint
May the actual God give you light, Annem
Hi, however, posting that quote from the course in miracles, which indicates a pantheistic concept of ‘god’ strikes me as rather blasphemous on Good Friday
May the actual God give you light, Annem
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Mr_Clean
Guest
You don’t have to convince me that demons exist. I also get that the term nightmare finds it’s roots in folklore. What I’m not too sure about is the idea that a nightmare, or any other frightful event that occurs in sleep, is necessarily a supernatural event.
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laircy
Guest
A few years ago I felt like I was being hugged from behind (and I was lying on my side). It was scary, felt evil… When I prayed, it immediately went away.
Another time—I’m not sure if it happened before or after the previously mentioned one— I was having an ordinary dream, but then was woken up by a slow, heavy breathing sound and a pulling at my arm. I opened my eyes and saw a dark shadow, darker than the darkness of my room and fuzzy/swirly looking, standing next to my bed. I also prayed for it to leave and quickly fell back asleep.
Recently I’ve had a few more pressing feelings but they were more like actual sleep paralysis and not accompanied by fear and a sense of evil.
Another time—I’m not sure if it happened before or after the previously mentioned one— I was having an ordinary dream, but then was woken up by a slow, heavy breathing sound and a pulling at my arm. I opened my eyes and saw a dark shadow, darker than the darkness of my room and fuzzy/swirly looking, standing next to my bed. I also prayed for it to leave and quickly fell back asleep.
Recently I’ve had a few more pressing feelings but they were more like actual sleep paralysis and not accompanied by fear and a sense of evil.
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Counterpoint
Guest
I believe encounters with hypnagogic entities furnishes evidence for what Jung called the “collective unconscious” (which I basically consider to be the world-soul). Whether you classify these encounters as natural or supernatural depends on how you define the terms.
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Counterpoint
Guest
Sounds like you definitely had an encounter with a “shadow person.” (Sometimes they appear as a black mist before they materialize.)
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Mr_Clean
Guest
The point I’m trying to get to is one can have a nightmare, or bad dream if you will, and that’s all it is - a bad dream. There’s nothing supernatural taking place. Now if you are actually being “visited” by entities in your sleep that’s not just a bad dream. In a normal, adult subject you should expect 25% of their sleep to be REM sleep. That a lot of dreams. Is every dream a visit to the “world-soul”? If I have a “good” dream am I with Angels?
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Butaperson
Guest
In a lot of ways, I think that dreams are what you make of them. Everything happens for a reason, right? And that must mean that no matter how ordinary or how terrifying or how amazing the dream, there is a reason that you dreamt it.
I converted (reverted, I guess) to Christianity because of a dream. I was 11 years old, I had been raised kinda Catholic but hasn’t been to church since I was 8. At the time I was staunchly atheist thanks to the influence of the world and had practically forgotten about the church.
I remember having a dream that I was being chased by someone or something, and I ran away into a dark room. In that room, I began praying - I prayed for God to help me, to be accepting of me, to forgive me.
When I woke up I knew exactly where I had to go and I believed in God from that day on.
I’ve looked back on that dream many times since, after developing greatly in my spiritual life and learning much, much more about what I believe in. And a few times I have thought, you know, it was a dream. It was a completely ordinary dream. I didn’t see shadows or hear the voice of God or wake up with the trumpets of angels in my room, I just had a dream. But then I kept thinking, I know that God is real now, He has revealed Himself to me in so many ways since that dream. I know it in my heart, soul, and mind. So if God is real, why wouldn’t He have sent that dream for me? After all, it worked, and even though it may not be how one typically thinks of a divine dream…God works in mysterious ways, and He knew perfectly well exactly what would bring back my faith, and that was it. So why couldn’t it be from God?
I think your dream could have very easily been from God. Even if it has a perfectly ordinary scientific explanation, even if it was just sleep paralysis…it worked. And God knew that was what would bring you away from sin. So if He knew that it would do just what it was meant to do, even if it is simply the most ordinary thing in the world, why would it not be from God?
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Counterpoint
Guest
What you are failing to understand here (although it has been explained repeatedly to you) is that these “visitations” take place in the hypnagogic state of consciousness. This is not the normal state of consciousness in which conventional dreams take place. (Apparently, you have never actually experienced sleep paralysis.)
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SoulSolace
Guest
Precisely.
I tend to think that every occurrence in life is spiritual. Be it physical illness, a bad dream, loss, etc,… for in everything, we have a choice to make, to turn our suffering over and bear our cross or to curse God. (Or if the event is a truly good one, to thank God, or deny him gratitude)
It doesn’t matter to me why the dream happened, it brought me closer to God.
The dream you had as a child, yes, I believe God allowed so that you would come back to Him.
God bless.
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