Hypostatic Union and sin

[EndTimes]

If he resisted the sin then He could sin.

@Sacred Scriptures

Yes He could - yet He didn’t …

Why would Satan have even bothered to Tempt Jesus?

Jesus prepared for that event - by fasting for 40 days…

Letter to HEBREWS

1. During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

 

[STT]

@Sacred Scriptures

Yes He could - yet He didn’t …

Why would Satan have even bothered to Tempt Jesus?

Jesus prepared for that event - by fasting for 40 days…

Letter to HEBREWS

1. During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

I am aware of that. There is, however, a contradiction in the union if Jesus can sin. The only way to resolve the contradiction is to say that Jesus is a perfect human being and cannot sin. At least that is what @John_Martin claims.

 

[John_Martin]

No, I am not confused. God cannot sin. Human can sin. Jesus according to @John_Martin cannot sin too because He is a perfect human.

If he resisted the sin then He could sin. Jesus according to @John_Martin cannot sin.

contradiction in the union if Jesus can sin. The only way to resolve the contradiction is to say that Jesus is a perfect human being and cannot sin. At least that is what @John_Martin claims.

I have found the real life reference to Matthew 7:6, and also hearing, does not hear; seeing does not see - will not hear, will not see, intentionally.

 

[STT]

I have found the real life reference to Matthew 7:6, and also hearing, does not hear; seeing does not see - will not hear, will not see, intentionally.

What do you mean? How does the Church interpret the story of the temptation of Jesus by Satan in His 40 days fasting?

 

[John_Martin]

How does the Church interpret the story of the temptation of Jesus by Satan in His 40 days fasting?

Jesus was hungry (appetite, fully human being).
Jesus refused to regard his “person” (Son of God) as grounds for deserving more than human.

So Jesus confessed his full humanity, confessed his full human being to Satan: “man will not live by bread alone, rather will live by every word coming from the mouth of God. That is the Son of God - Human, which I am.”
The word of God then commanded a band of his Angels, “Go and give food to a human being named Jesus who you will find heading toward Capernaum from the desert.”
Jesus heard a word: “Take and eat”.
He lives by that word, being human.

Adam and Eve took for food what was not their food, not wanting to be human but to “be as God”.
Jesus is content to be human an to be given life as a gift.
Sin is doing to be other than human,

 

[STT]

Jesus was hungry (appetite, fully human being).
Jesus refused to regard his “person” (Son of God) as grounds for deserving more than human.

So Jesus confessed his full humanity, confessed his full human being to Satan: “man will not live by bread alone, rather will live by every word coming from the mouth of God. That is the Son of God - Human, which I am.”
The word of God then commanded a band of his Angels, “Go and give food to a human being named Jesus who you will find heading toward Capernaum from the desert.”
Jesus heard a word: “Take and eat”.
He lives by that word, being human.

I see. So Jesus is the Servant of God and He cannot sin.

 

[STT]

Adam and Eve took for food what was not their food, not wanting to be human but to “be as God”.
Jesus is content to be human an to be given life as a gift.
Sin is doing to be other than human,

The problem with Adam and Eve is that they were not perfect human like Jesus. Otherwise, they could not sin either.

 

[John_Martin]

The problem with Adam and Eve is that they were not perfect human like Jesus. Otherwise, they could not sin either.

You seem to be confusing “person” with “substance”
It is a person who sins or not, by doing personal injustice or justice. The human soul and body are instruments for the knowing of persons, one to another.
The person knows, “This is my body.”
The person knows, “This movement is being animated by my will, by my soul.”
The person Jesus knows, “Before this time and before Abraham’s birth, ‘I AM’.”

Adam and Eve were without defect, but did not know something about themselves, which is not a defect of creation. It is not a coincidence that the original sin is about personal knowing.

 

[STT]

You seem to be confusing “person” with “substance”
It is a person who sins or not, by doing personal injustice or justice. The human soul and body are instruments for the knowing of persons, one to another.
The person knows, “This is my body.”
The person knows, “This movement is being animated by my will, by my soul.”
The person Jesus knows, “Before this time and before Abraham’s birth, ‘I AM’.”

Adam and Eve were without defect, but did not know something about themselves, which is not a defect of creation. It is not a coincidence that the original sin is about personal knowing.

What does Jesus mean with “I AM”?

 

[stpurl]

OK there are quite a few posts and I’m skimming, but remind me again what you think about the Virgin Mary — conceived and born without sin but who freely chose not to sin.

 

[STT]

OK there are quite a few posts and I’m skimming, but remind me again what you think about the Virgin Mary — conceived and born without sin but who freely chose not to sin.

I don’t understand how Mary could be conceived and born without original sin unless God intervenes and creates a perfect human being like Jesus who cannot sin. They, Jesus and Mary, seem to both be Servants of God performing different duties.

 

[stpurl]

Wait, you think God created Jesus? Back up, son, back up; you need some real basic catechism here.

 

[STT]

Wait, you think God created Jesus? Back up, son, back up; you need some real basic catechism here.

Are you saying that Jesus is God and in the same time Servant of God? How God could be Servant of Himself?

 

[stpurl]

Yes. True God and true Man. The answer is that it is indeed a mystery. Plenty of things are a mystery. How the universe began is a mystery. But we don’t just say, “Well I don’t understand how the universe began, therefore I don’t believe there is a universe’, right?

If I may, and with respect: Do you believe in God?
If you don’t, really no point in discussion.

If you do, then can God, by definition a Supernatural Being and your Creator, be perfectly understood by you?

Or, even more simply, can anything which is perfectly understood be greater than the one who understands it?

 

[STT]

Yes. True God and true Man. The answer is that it is indeed a mystery. Plenty of things are a mystery. How the universe began is a mystery. But we don’t just say, “Well I don’t understand how the universe began, therefore I don’t believe there is a universe’, right?

I don’t think that there is any mystery which cannot be understood.

If I may, and with respect: Do you believe in God?

No. I don’t believe in God as creator of everything but I believe in God/gods, supernatural beings, who can create things. I think mind, essence of any being with ability to experience, decide and cause, cannot be created. I have an argument for that.

If you don’t, really no point in discussion.

I need to figure things out if you don’t mind and have time. This discussion could be enlightening for others. I have a high hope.

If you do, then can God, by definition a Supernatural Being and your Creator, be perfectly understood by you?

I think we can understand reality very well. The reality to me is very simple.

Or, even more simply, can anything which is perfectly understood be greater than the one who understands it?

No. We are minds and we have ability to understand the absolute truth.

 

[stpurl]

Explain that your statement that YOU don’t THINK there is any mystery which cannot be understood must be true statement of fact and not a opinion which may be completely wrong.

 

[STT]

Explain that your statement that YOU don’t THINK there is any mystery which cannot be understood must be true statement of fact and not a opinion which may be completely wrong.

God simply knows everything. Is there any mystery for God? No. Therefore, we can also know it if it is knowable.

 

[stpurl]

Really? Explain how we are God then. If HE knows everything, how do WE know everything that He does?

 

[Vico]

John_Martin:

To “sin” is to “miss the mark”.
It means to aim at something other than Union with the Father in heaven and to try to attain that Union with something other than the Father in Heaven as the one sole Purpose in being alive and happy.
Jesus never aimed at anything besides his Father’s will and Union with his Father and so he never missed the mark. We, however, aim at something else and we miss the mark of where we should be which is with the Father.
Anyone “holy” can serve in the presence of God without being consumed in destruction. That is the reason we are able to offer the sacrifice of the Mass - we are a holy people, priests to our God. We are restored to holiness with the confiteor and absolution, so missing the mark is removed from sight and we are able to be within God in the union of the sacrifice, and he in us in the raising of his Son, whose flesh and blood we have consumed.

A free agent is always free to choose not God and sin even in Heaven. God is free but He cannot sin. I am talking about the tension which exist in union since in one hand the union is able to sin and in another hand He cannot sin.

When sanctifying grace is present the person with it has the ability to not commit mortal sin, by cooperating with that grace.

 

[STT]

Really? Explain how we are God then. If HE knows everything, how do WE know everything that He does?

We are not God but we will know everything, unless you claim that there unknowable things. I know a part of the truth like how things had started, what we are, etc. I don’t know the details though since I am not exposed to the whole reality. We have to witness certain things to obtain certainty. Isn’t that correct?