Hypostatic Union and sin

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Let me be sure I am stating what you claim.

You believe in God and that He knows everything and is therefore omniscient. And that we can become omniscient too.

Well, I believe that God is omniscient. I believe that when I die—not before, not on this earth—I will be united with God. I will know what God knows, not under my own power, but because I am perfectly united with Him. I hope and pray that this will be in Heaven. If I choose to reject God I will not be united with Him in heaven, I will choose to remain forever and always apart from Him.

So, if you’re saying that we are not omniscient on earth and cannot ‘know’ what God knows since He is absolutely limitless and we are not, and while our soul is eternal, our soul will require our bodies including our brains which will in fact ‘turn to dust’ temporally and which will need to be made NEW in eternity, and with the new eternal brains and body along with our eternal soul we will THEN be able to understand all mysteries. . .

that’s one thing.

But here on earth it’s like asking somebody to put the entire Pacific Ocean into a child’s bucket by saying that we can ‘understand’ the entire mystery of God in our little human finite persons.
 
STT said:
I am aware of that. There is, however, a contradiction in the union if Jesus can sin. The only way to resolve the contradiction is to say that Jesus is a perfect human being and cannot sin. At least that is what @John_Martin claims.
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I’m more concerned with what God and the Catholic Church has to say.

If you do not understand HOW Jesus differs from all other Humans - you can’t understand the Answer.
 
stpurl said:
Let me be sure I am stating what you claim.

You believe in God and that He knows everything and is therefore omniscient. And that we can become omniscient too.
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Yes. Yes.
stpurl said:
Well, I believe that God is omniscient. I believe that when I die—not before, not on this earth—I will be united with God. I will know what God knows, not under my own power, but because I am perfectly united with Him. I hope and pray that this will be in Heaven. If I choose to reject God I will not be united with Him in heaven, I will choose to remain forever and always apart from Him.
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You can know the absolute truth here. The details you will know it in Heaven. But remember the truth is called knowledge of good and evil.
stpurl said:
So, if you’re saying that we are not omniscient on earth and cannot ‘know’ what God knows since He is absolutely limitless and we are not, and while our soul is eternal, our soul will require our bodies including our brains which will in fact ‘turn to dust’ temporally and which will need to be made NEW in eternity, and with the new eternal brains and body along with our eternal soul we will THEN be able to understand all mysteries. . .

that’s one thing.
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We can know a lot here. I have no argument on whether knowledge is finite or infinite. Do you know any argument in this regard?
stpurl said:
But here on earth it’s like asking somebody to put the entire Pacific Ocean into a child’s bucket by saying that we can ‘understand’ the entire mystery of God in our little human finite persons.
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I know the truth. The truth about what we are.
 
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EndTimes said:
I’m more concerned with what God and the Catholic Church has to say.

If you do not understand HOW Jesus differs from all other Humans - you can’t understand the Answer.
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I think I understand Jesus.
 
STT said:
He is perfect. We are not.
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Well… That’s not exactly as obvious as what pertains to our discussion…

For starters - He Existed with His Father in Heaven Before His In- Carnation - being made Flesh & Blood

Whereas Humans have Human fathers and mothers -
Jesus’ Father is Divine - and through Mary - He had a perfect Human Body…
And human bodies are subject to temptation…

Via His Human Nature He Prayed to God His Father to remove His Cross…

He was Made Perfect by God His Father - via His Obedience to His Father God…

Letter to HEBREWS

*During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and,
once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him*

++++++
 
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EndTimes said:
Well… That’s not exactly as obvious as what pertains to our discussion…

For starters - He Existed with His Father in Heaven Before His In- Carnation - being made Flesh & Blood

Whereas Humans have Human fathers and mothers -
Jesus’ Father is Divine - and through Mary - He had a perfect Human Body…
And human bodies are subject to temptation…

Via His Human Nature He Prayed to God His Father to remove His Cross…

He was Made Perfect by God His Father - via His Obedience to His Father God…

Letter to HEBREWS

*During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and,
once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him *

++++++
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Thanks, for more info.
 
You know the truth about what we are you say. What are we? Is it the entire truth? All truth? No mystery? Complete and total omniscience?
 
Knowledge may indeed be infinite, but is a human being’s BRAIN infinite? How exactly does one measure whether one’s reason can ‘absorb’ infinite knowledge without actually giving it infinite knowledge to see, “oops, can’t hold it’ or ‘made it’ here on earth? We are talking temporally here, because that is what we can ‘know’. If a new (and Scripture tells us it will be new, and Jesus’ recorded experiences post resurrection show distinctly new capacities of the body with the ‘new’ body) body after death will have enhanced capabilities after death, that does not prove the fleshy temporal body we have NOW has such a capability.
 
stpurl said:
You know the truth about what we are you say. What are we?
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We are interacting minds through the medium of physical. Mind is the essence of any being/thing with the ability to experience, decide and cause. We know certain things. We want to know more to become perfect.
stpurl said:
Is it the entire truth?
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No, it is basic truth. The rest is about how things started, who are higher minds, gods, God, what are spiritual realities (Heaven and Hell), etc.
stpurl said:
All truth? No mystery? Complete and total omniscience?
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Yes. We can know the whole truth gradually. They also help us, by guidance.
 
I don’t think that you are talking about God, Christ, and Truth here.
 
Yes, I understand this even though I realize how mystifying it is, I am sure, even to devout Catholics. What I also find interesting is the notion that, as you state, we have “a ‘tendency’ to do wrong,” (concupiscence), mainly because this is the exact inverse of what is believed in Judaism, namely, that we have a human tendency to do right.
 
stpurl said:
Knowledge may indeed be infinite, but is a human being’s BRAIN infinite?
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Knowledge is a Quality - a part of God…

He wants us to Know what we need to Know…

More than Knowledge in a manner is Understanding: More than Understanding: Wisdom

Our Minds? Should be allowed to conform to Jesus’ Mind

_
 
It’s actually a lot of the paradox of faith, isn’t it? If we look at God as our creator and think, wow, even without Him being right here with us, the majority of time the majority of us ‘do the right stuff’, we would think, “being in God’s image makes us tend to do good.”

That’s the optimist in us, the minimizer in us, the “well of course we aren’t GOD so how can we hold ourselves to a standard of perfection, look how relatively good we are anyway?”

I think with the Catholic faith, we know that God calls us to be ‘perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect" and we are more realists. We listen to Scripture and we hear Jesus’ own words, “And when you have done what you should do, say, 'I am a worthless servant; I have done only what I am required to do.”

We thus see that far from ‘being pretty good people mostly’ that even the ‘best’ of us are, at most, only doing what we ‘should’ be doing, after all. If we were truly ‘good’, we’d go above and beyond. We WOULD be perfect.

The good news is that God’s help, with Him uniting Himself to us because of the unity we can share with His Son, we CAN be perfect; every single second we can ‘strive’. When we mess up, we’re sorrow.

We have to be sure that we neither despair, “I’ll NEVER be good, might as well just do evil and have some ‘fun’” nor presume, "Ok, I am trying, I’m not doing anything overtly wrong, I’ve aced this thing, I’m good to go, I’m coasting and I’m as good as in the pearly gates’.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
What I also find interesting is the notion that, as you state, we have “a ‘tendency’ to do wrong,” (concupiscence), mainly because this is the exact inverse of what is believed in Judaism, namely, that we have a human tendency to do right.
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The two tendencies are not mutually exclusive. We can, as Catholics believe, be both but not in the same moment. Our free will, only with the help of God’s actual grace, allows us to do right.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
Yes, I understand this even though I realize how mystifying it is, I am sure, even to devout Catholics. What I also find interesting is the notion that, as you state, we have “a ‘tendency’ to do wrong,” (concupiscence), mainly because this is the exact inverse of what is believed in Judaism, namely, that we have a human tendency to do right.
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Then by what principle do you explain
why the history of eg., Man - Hebrews - Israelites - and yes even some Jews -
are also ridden with Bombastic DisObediences against God?
 
We have the potential to do good, but we don’t always act on that potential.
 
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