Hypothetical conversion process

[pablope]

Well…if it was simple enough…how could there so many thousands of protestant denominations each teaching their own interpretation of the gospel and claiming to be teaching the true gospel?

The four marks of the Church…zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m3/Mod3.html

Ah, I meant there’s a small picture of a saint on the wall of the house where I rent a room. There’s also a Tibetan tapestry/wall thing as well. So I’m a bit confused.

Now you got me confused also…

The church across the street is St. Paul’s…I’m guessing the patron saint is St. Paul…?

It most likely is.

Are Catholic churches normally open to the public during business hours for prayer? Can I just walk in, sit down, and pray?

Yes they are. There are also daily masses. Just check with the parish for times, and find a time convenient for you.

You can certainly walk in and pray and meditate. Some parishes have perpetual adoration chapels…so you may want to call the church office near you and ask if they have an adoration chapel or some close by parish that has one.

 

[GraceSofia]

Is God moving my heart to join the Catholic Church?

My guess is that He is leading you to explore Catholicism.

In history class, we were taught that the Catholic Church was full of corruption (e.g., indulgences), fallible (e.g., the whole Galileo incident), and greedy (e.g., property acquisition, Pope wearing Prada). Perhaps I was biased because of the way Church history is taught.

I’m still interested in the Catholic Church, but the Protestant Church is all I’ve known. Is one authentic and the other not? Are they both?

Gah, I wish I knew the answer.

Unfortunately, English-language history is biased towards Protestantism for religious but also political reasons (going back to when Spain and England were fighting each other). There are bad episodes in Church history, but the goodness and beauty of the Church tends to get completely ignored in history classes.

This is an amazing book. It just sorted so many things for me. Paradoxes of Catholicism by Robert Hugh Benson. All the chapters are good, but you might want to look at chapter four, Sanctity and Sin, first.

 

[CopticChristian]

pablope;10193126:

I was taught that the Gospel is simple enough that a child can understand. Or is that Protestantism watering things down?

Ah, I meant there’s a small picture of a saint on the wall of the house where I rent a room. There’s also a Tibetan tapestry/wall thing as well. So I’m a bit confused.

The church across the street is St. Paul’s…I’m guessing the patron saint is St. Paul…?

Are Catholic churches normally open to the public during business hours for prayer? Can I just walk in, sit down, and pray?

EIF5,

The Gospel is simple and unfortunatley Protestant thought approaches this in reverse…

Protestant thought for the most part in the other than denominational, with exception of the Calvinist/Presbyterian/Reformed group do the following:

Get Saved, Go to Heaven, REWARD oriented…for the usually difficult position people find their lives in…

then you are encouraged to go to a Bible believing Church/Protestant and get into a Bible study/Protestant where you learn theology in the studies and in the Bible Belileving Church until you come to know and understand Protestant theology…in the process the anti-Catholic rhetoric is also taught that is a remnant of Protestant thought incorporated into teaching and that teaching includes falsehoods about the Catholic Church…this usually takes about 3-5 years…

The Catholic Church does this by saying…look at what we believe…and what we believe is that Christ saves us from our sin, through His death as a sacrifice, by grace, through Faith, acting in love…so that you can be a child of God as you were meant to be…

So the compare and contrast is that Protestants take you at face value of knowing nothing. Many try to convict you of your sin…

Have you ever lied, then you are a liar, have you ever stolen, then you are a thief…this is the usual Reformed technique…causing you to realize that you are not as good as you think you are and need something more.

Have you ever thought of where you might be tonight? Did you know that you can know if you will go to heaven…? The Bible says…this is the “Bible is true” method of conviction that God has a plan for you…

there are others…but basically that is it…

 

[CopticChristian]

I doubt most, I would say most, have read the CCC from cover to cover. The reason is, it’s a big book and it’s not something new. If you’re more than thirty, or perhaps forty, it is not something quite new; it’s something you probably had gone through before. Catechism is not new. The CCC is more comprehensive though. More often than not, it’s a referral book at home. Personally when it first came out, I tried to give it a run over from beginning to end, and I found it to be a long book. I can’t remember if I completed it at one continuous sitting, though along the years I probably have gone through everything. Now I do delve into the book but it was mainly out of necessity at times for teaching purpose when giving talks but how many Catholics do that. Not many probably but I am sure we do look into the CCC now and then either for reference or study.

Reuben,

I am not speaking of the Universal Catechism, this is like an encyclopedia. I recently discovered the Catechism for Adults USA…it is available on audio and listening has brought so much more than just reading…we learn visually and by hearing…how many Protestants take you to passages in the Bible, that tell you that Faith comes by hearing…I have listened to this 6 times running and discovered more than I could have imagined. It is filled with the lives of Saints, much about Catholicism in America and more…

The audio explains that Catechesis means to echo…as learning was by hearing and then repeating…so if that is true and you can hear the Catechism and you then echo its teaching you are then being Catechized…

I would recommend EIF5A to get a copy and invest $42 on Amazon, listen until it makes sense and if the calling is there, it is there. It can always be sold back on Amazon…but the investment will answer so many questions as the seeking continues…and rather than get answers from unknown sources, this is a source that can be trusted…

If you have not heard it, I encourage you and everyone to do so…it will change your mind and you will be transformed by the renewal of your mind…

 

[EIF5A]

EIF5A;10193129:

EIF5,

The Gospel is simple and unfortunatley Protestant thought approaches this in reverse…

Protestant thought for the most part in the other than denominational, with exception of the Calvinist/Presbyterian/Reformed group do the following:

Get Saved, Go to Heaven, REWARD oriented…for the usually difficult position people find their lives in…

I know there are prosperity gospel churches out there, but at least the Protestant churches I have attended do not espouse that. But don’t Catholics also believe in a reward in the afterlife?

then you are encouraged to go to a Bible believing Church/Protestant and get into a Bible study/Protestant where you learn theology in the studies and in the Bible Belileving Church until you come to know and understand Protestant theology…in the process the anti-Catholic rhetoric is also taught that is a remnant of Protestant thought incorporated into teaching and that teaching includes falsehoods about the Catholic Church…this usually takes about 3-5 years…

Hmm…I’m trying to remember if I’ve been exposed to anti-Catholic rhetoric in the Protestant church. I do/did have reservations about statues and images of Mary/Saints, but I don’t think they came from the Protestant pulpit. I think it’s my attempt to “play it safe” and not partake in anything that might be perceived as praying and worshipping them. However, if I remember correctly, I do remember my dad having a pamphlet showing what appeared to be a man in Catholic garments being one of the four horsemen… But I’m pretty sure it wasn’t distributed at church.

The Catholic Church does this by saying…look at what we believe…and what we believe is that Christ saves us from our sin, through His death as a sacrifice, by grace, through Faith, acting in love…so that you can be a child of God as you were meant to be…

So the compare and contrast is that Protestants take you at face value of knowing nothing. Many try to convict you of your sin…

Have you ever lied, then you are a liar, have you ever stolen, then you are a thief…this is the usual Reformed technique…causing you to realize that you are not as good as you think you are and need something more.

So what’s wrong with convicting you of your sin? Also, Protestants, too, believe that “Christ saves us from our sin, through His death as a sacrifice, by grace, through Faith, acting in love…so that you can be a child of God as you were meant to be.”

Have you ever thought of where you might be tonight? Did you know that you can know if you will go to heaven…? The Bible says…this is the “Bible is true” method of conviction that God has a plan for you…

there are others…but basically that is it…

I do remember the “God has a plan for you” part.

 

[EIF5A]

Do different countries have different Catechisms?

Catholicism sure does have many different kinds of reading material…

 

[CleverUserName]

Clever,

You conclude that “most” dont based on a survey of all, personal knowledge of all or just what you think is probable or just yourself.

I personally know NO ONE who has, aside from the person who teaches this class. And I do happen to have statistics because they are taught during said class. But I don’t suppose that would make any difference to you. How many do you know? Can you answer that honestly?

 

[CleverUserName]

10192911]

 

[CopticChristian]

CopticChristian;10193685:

I know there are prosperity gospel churches out there, but at least the Protestant churches I have attended do not espouse that. But don’t Catholics also believe in a reward in the afterlife?

Hmm…I’m trying to remember if I’ve been exposed to anti-Catholic rhetoric in the Protestant church. I do/did have reservations about statues and images of Mary/Saints, but I don’t think they came from the Protestant pulpit. I think it’s my attempt to “play it safe” and not partake in anything that might be perceived as praying and worshipping them. However, if I remember correctly, I do remember my dad having a pamphlet showing what appeared to be a man in Catholic garments being one of the four horsemen… But I’m pretty sure it wasn’t distributed at church.

So what’s wrong with convicting you of your sin? Also, Protestants, too, believe that “Christ saves us from our sin, through His death as a sacrifice, by grace, through Faith, acting in love…so that you can be a child of God as you were meant to be.”

I do remember the “God has a plan for you” part.

EIFA,

I did not apply a judgement as right or wrong. I just stated the methods of conversion to a type of thinking. Go back and see that I said nothing about right or wrong.

Concerning the anti-Catholic rhetoric, it is subtle. Faith is taught as trust. There is the notion of being annointed, favored, blessed and all of this has value however we believe in actually being blessed, annointed with oil and favor is common. The notion that you are going to a Bible Believing Church/Protestant is the first deception. The Bible came from the OHCAC and directing you and steering you away from the Catholic Church is the first anti-Catholic move. Next…all you need is the Bible…Sola Scriptura…all you need is Believe…Sola Fide…these are all Protestant beliefs that take you away from revealed truths of the OHCAC.

We believe in reward however many and I don’t know all come to the OHCAC not necessarily seeking reward although all Christianity is based on reward of the afterlife. Listen to St. Augustine…confessions here and see what he has to say about his search for God…

archive.org/details/confessions_augustine_0911_librivox

This is a person that was once a sinner and now seeks and sought God…you may learn something from him…

 

[CopticChristian]

Do different countries have different Catechisms?

Catholicism sure does have many different kinds of reading material…

EIF5A,

Wow that is hard to type…I may just address you as EIF…OK…

There is a universal Catechism that is to be a template for Regional Catechisms and I suggested earlier the Catechism of the USA…they are written to inorporate the history of the region…

Catholocism has alot of reading…you would do well to study the Bible however note that private interpretation is not the norm…The Catechism has a compendium of information that provides the insights as to how the Bible was used to formulate those thoughts…

If you were to study just the Catechism and go to Church for 3 years, you will have heard the entire Bible in that time while studying the Catechism…and if you supplement that with reading then you will grow in your understanding…

Ok…

 

[CopticChristian]

I personally know NO ONE who has, aside from the person who teaches this class. And I do happen to have statistics because they are taught during said class. But I don’t suppose that would make any difference to you. How many do you know? Can you answer that honestly?

Clever,

The knoweldge of who does what means little to me. What I do and want others to do means more. There are many that have copies of the Audio Catechism of the USA and there are many that have the text of the Catechism of the USA. I have both. I admitted that I have not read completely until getting the audio…rather recently. I used to routinely consult the Universal Catechism…

I ask you to consider that if you found something good and believed that it would be of benefit, would you keep it private or make it public. I have been asked about this before and the response as to what I was listening to has been positive from others. It appears you may question the value. Ok…do what you believe benefits you…

 

[CopticChristian]

**QUOTE=CleverUserName

Ok I repeat: I never discouraged anyone from reading the Catechism. I repeat: I encourage the reading of Scripture AND the Catechism. I repeat: Do not assume that I have not studied the Catechism. Stop suggesting that I do what I have already done and continue to do- and not by audiobook, by the way. And yes you were attacking, and not for the first time.

At this time I will show the Christian charity you are lacking in this, and just exit the conversation, with respect to the original poster. As I told you via private message, there is no need to hijack the OP’s thread further.

To the OP: Best of luck in your hypothetical journey Apologies for this digression.

Clever,

I assume nothing other than what I know. I know that the best resource for someone looking to know what it is the Catholic Church teaches is the Catechism, and in particular the USA Catechism for Adults, and I would recommend the audio, you can learn while you drive. Would you agree or disagree?**

 

[CopticChristian]

CopticChristian;10193685:

I know there are prosperity gospel churches out there, but at least the Protestant churches I have attended do not espouse that. But don’t Catholics also believe in a reward in the afterlife?

Hmm…I’m trying to remember if I’ve been exposed to anti-Catholic rhetoric in the Protestant church. I do/did have reservations about statues and images of Mary/Saints, but I don’t think they came from the Protestant pulpit. I think it’s my attempt to “play it safe” and not partake in anything that might be perceived as praying and worshipping them. However, if I remember correctly, I do remember my dad having a pamphlet showing what appeared to be a man in Catholic garments being one of the four horsemen… But I’m pretty sure it wasn’t distributed at church.

So what’s wrong with convicting you of your sin? Also, Protestants, too, believe that “Christ saves us from our sin, through His death as a sacrifice, by grace, through Faith, acting in love…so that you can be a child of God as you were meant to be.”

I do remember the “God has a plan for you” part.

EIF,

This information and understanding comes from active attempts by Protestants to convert me to their way of thinking, being in Protestant services of many types, many Bible studies, one on one conversation with Protestant pastors and supplemented by reading…Ok…

Whenever a Protestant challenged what it was I believed…I discovered that what they thought I believed and what the Church taught was not true…soon I learned and discovered that they knew less about what I believed and the Church taught and even less about Christian History…

 

[Porknpie]

Reuben,

I am not speaking of the Universal Catechism, this is like an encyclopedia. I recently discovered the Catechism for Adults USA…it is available on audio and listening has brought so much more than just reading…we learn visually and by hearing…how many Protestants take you to passages in the Bible, that tell you that Faith comes by hearing…I have listened to this 6 times running and discovered more than I could have imagined. It is filled with the lives of Saints, much about Catholicism in America and more…

The audio explains that Catechesis means to echo…as learning was by hearing and then repeating…so if that is true and you can hear the Catechism and you then echo its teaching you are then being Catechized…

I received the audio version as a Christmas present. PIE is a wonderful wife. Will start listening to it during my commute to work starting tomorrow.

 

[CopticChristian]

I received the audio version as a Christmas present. PIE is a wonderful wife. Will start listening to it during my commute to work starting tomorrow.

Pork,

How much love Pie must have for you. You will find treasures beyond your belief in the Audio. You will find and understand more than you do now. You will not be the same…I pray you see what I saw…when I am confronted with issues I resort to the structure of the Catechism to formulate my thoughts…

We Believe
We Live our Sacramental Life
We strive to be Holy as Our God is Holy, we follow commandments and Model Christ
We pray and ask for help…

The Church is marvelous in providing this construct of thinking and that is one thing I marvel over is the way the mind of the Church is constructed…use it, share it, encourage it…

 

[Porknpie]

I was taught that the Gospel is simple enough that a child can understand. Or is that Protestantism watering things down?

EIF -

The written Word of God is seldom simple enough for a child to understand (Jesus excluded).

For one, scripture says this is not true:

2 Peter 3
15 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,
16 speaking of these things as he does in all his letters.** In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.**

These “some things” which are hard to understand become even harder, when one tries understanding scripture separate from the Catholic church for which is was written, “by, for and about”. This includes an understanding of the oral Word of God passed on through the oral tradition of the Church upon which the written Word comes forth. If it was easy to understand, all Christians would be united to:

• The authority of the one holy, Catholic and apostolic church
• Receiving Jesus literally in the Eucharist
• Sacramental baptism
• Infant baptism
• Salvation by God’s grace, through faith and works
• The need to keep the commandments as Christ himself spoke.

One could also ask if your church has the complete written Word of God? Most protestant bibles are missing 7 books of the OT. I am currently reading Michael Barber’s book on Revelation. It’s led me to read the War of the Jews by Josephus. I now also need to reread the books of Isaiah and Daniel and reread Barber’s book. Show me a child that that can understand it. I’d like to meet them.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I received the audio version as a Christmas present. PIE is a wonderful wife. Will start listening to it during my commute to work starting tomorrow.

Pork this is funny., so Pie is the convert and she bought you the CCC?

 

[Porknpie]

Pork this is funny., so Pie is the convert and she bought you the CCC?

Gary, we were married in '88…with dispensation in her Church due to her mother having MS and not being able to travel. She converted in…I believe in '92 after going through RCIA 2x. She’s 110% Catholic … including having a great love for Mary and she looks forward to her adoration hour every week. She also is a watercolor artist as my Avatars attest to. I did give her a hint on the Catechism gift idea…Coptic made sure I bought what he bought.

PS…she’s looking forward to renewing our vows next year in our Catholic Church for our 25th.

 

[Miriam1947]

Do different countries have different Catechisms?

Catholicism sure does have many different kinds of reading material…

Lots of reading material. Thank goodness I like to read since I have 2000 years to catch up on.

 

[EIF5A]

i50.tinypic.com/9lhg2f.png

Can anyone tell me who that is? It’s the picture hanging on the wall where I live.