Hypothetical conversion process

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Can anyone tell me who that is? It’s the picture hanging on the wall where I live.
It is either the Virgin Mary or a picture of a saint. My best guess is it is the Virgin Mary.

I cannot make out the words on either side of the picture/image due to some light reflection. Can you write them out and post them?
 
i50.tinypic.com/9lhg2f.png

Can anyone tell me who that is? It’s the picture hanging on the wall where I live.
EIFA,

It is an Icon…you may want to look on the back of the icon and usually it will tell you who it is. You may also want to ask the person that owns it who it is. Icons of Mary usually have Jesus so I can’t for sure say that this is not Mary however it is likely someone other than Mary because I cannot see Jesus with her.
 
It is either the Virgin Mary or a picture of a saint. My best guess is it is the Virgin Mary.

I cannot make out the words on either side of the picture/image due to some light reflection. Can you write them out and post them?
I’ll see if I can read the text when I get home.

So is icon different from a painting/picture? Does the image have to be “blessed” or approved?

Just got off the phone with my mom (to say happy new year and etc) and hinted that I’m considering going to a Catholic Church. The response was vehement opposition…I was hoping she’d be more open since my grandmother was a Catholic.
 
I’ll see if I can read the text when I get home.

So is icon different from a painting/picture? Does the image have to be “blessed” or approved?

Just got off the phone with my mom (to say happy new year and etc) and hinted that I’m considering going to a Catholic Church. The response was vehement opposition…I was hoping she’d be more open since my grandmother was a Catholic.
That was my mother’s first reaction, as well. A week later, she was asking me what I was doing, to prepare myself to become the next Pope, as she thought there might be a job opening in the near future. 😛

The key is to include her in your journey, without expecting her to partake in it. Let her know that you are fine with her not becoming Catholic if she doesn’t feel any kind of a calling to it.

Share the ups and downs with her - let her know that you are taking everything very seriously. In the end, she will be supportive, even if she still doesn’t approve.
 
Does the Catholic Church frown upon attending both Mass and Protestant services? (For the praise music, although at least one Mass I went to played contemporary music)
While some parishes go in for P&W style music many parishes are abandoning it because as a musical style it’s really rather shallow. Nor is it truly satisfying to the soul, even if it makes our toes tap. The Mass is the highest form of prayer in the Church and therefore should be done with reverence–not dull and slow, but reverently. True reverence feeds the soul while most P&W music is forgetable and rather passe. If you immerse yourself in the prayers/hymns of the Mass–really listen to them–you will find them rich and beautiful rather than merely entertaining. As a current Protestant, of course you may attend any church you like. However, if you become a candidate, it’s only right and sensible that you attend Mass only, except for family events, such as weddings and funerals or perhaps interfaith services. But to regularly attend both Protestant servcies as well the Catholic Mass while entering the Church would be putting your feet in two buckets in the hopes that one or the other of them is the right one. Truly, you’d have to make a choice at that point.
On an unrelated note, I saw that several people had “Tiber Swim Team” with a year in their signatures. I thought they were from the same Catholic high school athletic team or something…
In order to enter Rome from the north one has to cross the Tiber River. “Tiber Swin Team” is an inside joke among us converts from Protestantism. In a sense we swam the Tiber to enter Rome when we became Catholics. 🙂
 
While some parishes go in for P&W style music many parishes are abandoning it because as a musical style it’s really rather shallow. Nor is it truly satisfying to the soul, even if it makes our toes tap. The Mass is the highest form of prayer in the Church and therefore should be done with reverence–not dull and slow, but reverently. True reverence feeds the soul while most P&W music is forgetable and rather passe.
Hmm…I don’t think there is a “right” style of music to worship God. In Psalm 150, we are told to use trumpets, cymbals, lyres, and pipes to praise God. While we shouldn’t depend on an “emotional high” to worship God, I don’t think emotion and worship are mutually exclusive — if done correctly, the former leads to the latter. Obviously, if the focus is on “performance” by the various musicians, that takes away from worship.

Is it a fair generalized assessment that the Catholic Church focuses more on reverence and quietude, whereas the Protestant Church shows more outward enthusiasm during worship?
 
Hmm…I don’t think there is a “right” style of music to worship God. In Psalm 150, we are told to use trumpets, cymbals, lyres, and pipes to praise God. While we shouldn’t depend on an “emotional high” to worship God, I don’t think emotion and worship are mutually exclusive — if done correctly, the former leads to the latter. Obviously, if the focus is on “performance” by the various musicians, that takes away from worship.

Is it a fair generalized assessment that the Catholic Church focuses more on reverence and quietude, whereas the Protestant Church shows more outward enthusiasm during worship?
That would depend on the Protestants. The Protestant community in which I was brought up always used very traditional hymns exalting Christ as Lord of the Universe, Creator, and Saviour.
 
That would depend on the Protestants. The Protestant community in which I was brought up always used very traditional hymns exalting Christ as Lord of the Universe, Creator, and Saviour.
The Protestant churches I’ve been to tended to do a mix of both traditional hymns and contemporary Christian music. I personally just don’t feel awed and inspired by the traditional Catholic music — it sounds very “medieval”-y and kind of…[insert nicer word for boring]…which is why I was wondering before if it’s allowed to attend both worship services should I decide to join the Catholic Church. I get the whole “tradition is sacred” part, but can’t SOME things that are not doctrinally immutable be allowed to be adapted to the times?
 
The Protestant churches I’ve been to tended to do a mix of both traditional hymns and contemporary Christian music. I personally just don’t feel awed and inspired by the traditional Catholic music — it sounds very “medieval”-y and kind of…[insert nicer word for boring]…which is why I was wondering before if it’s allowed to attend both worship services should I decide to join the Catholic Church. I get the whole “tradition is sacred” part, but can’t SOME things that are not doctrinally immutable be allowed to be adapted to the times?
I’m betting your parish has a Youth Mass (typically either Saturday or Sunday evening, although at my present parish, for reasons I have yet to discern, we have our Youth Mass at 9:30 on Sunday mornings 🤷 ) - that would be where you’ll hear the contemporary music.
 
The Protestant churches I’ve been to tended to do a mix of both traditional hymns and contemporary Christian music. I personally just don’t feel awed and inspired by the traditional Catholic music — it sounds very “medieval”-y and kind of…[insert nicer word for boring]…which is why I was wondering before if it’s allowed to attend both worship services should I decide to join the Catholic Church. I get the whole “tradition is sacred” part, but can’t SOME things that are not doctrinally immutable be allowed to be adapted to the times?
EIFA,

It is not about pleasing us/me…however try a teen mass.
 
EIFA,

It is not about pleasing us/me…however try a teen mass.
Music is pleasing to the ear and inspires the soul. I assume that is the purpose. Why have music at all if the words are sufficient?

Is it wrong to prefer one form of music over another due to personal upbringing/environment/surrounding? Is it wrong to have a favorite hymn because the words and melody conspire to elicit a heightened sense of the majesty of God and abounding love of the Almighty?

I hope you didn’t take my comments as insulting the tradition of the Church. More and more, I realize tradition is important to Catholics.
 
Hmm…I don’t think there is a “right” style of music to worship God. In Psalm 150, we are told to use trumpets, cymbals, lyres, and pipes to praise God. While we shouldn’t depend on an “emotional high” to worship God, I don’t think emotion and worship are mutually exclusive — if done correctly, the former leads to the latter. Obviously, if the focus is on “performance” by the various musicians, that takes away from worship.

Is it a fair generalized assessment that the Catholic Church focuses more on reverence and quietude, whereas the Protestant Church shows more outward enthusiasm during worship?
Well, it’s not simply a matter of taste for the Catholic Mass. Everything within the Mass is the setting for the Eucharist–the one offering of Christ’s body and blood, soul and divinity, so the music should be the proper kind for it.

Let’s use an example. Say you found a perfect gem, one of a kind, one that was perfect right out of the ground, no need to be cut or polished to bring out its beauty because it is the most beautiful gem in the world just as it is. If you wished to put that perfect gem into a setting what would you use? Copper? Tin? Steel? Or would you use silver or gold or platinum or some other truly worthy metal? The same with music for the Mass–the highest prayer of the Church, the gem of which is the consecration of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. The setting, the music, is not meant to entertain, but for worshiping God and to teach us the truths of God beyond the “I love Jesus and he loves me” type of thing. The responses are prayer, not “songs” and are a part of the eucharistic prayer. In a word, it’s special.

Traditional hymns are only boring if you don’t pay attention to the lyrics and don’t enter into singing them with understanding. Open a traditional hymnal sometime and just read the words–even Protestant ones. They actually say something significant rather than merely stirring emotions or making us feel like clapping along. Modern religious P&W music has its place–it’s fine for ordinary prayer services or for youth groups, but the Mass is special–too special for the simplistic feel good songs that pass for religious music in some circles.

Still, you’ll easily find parishes that do use P&W music. And if you start out there, that’s fine, because any Mass, no matter if the settings aren’t truly worthy, is better than none at all. I would hope that in time, as you learn more about the Catholic faith and its riches that your taste would mature and you would grow in understanding to the point that the truly worthy music would mean something to you. 🙂
 
Music is pleasing to the ear and inspires the soul. I assume that is the purpose. Why have music at all if the words are sufficient?
Different purposes require different kinds of music - the sort of music you can dance to isn’t necessarily appropriate for Mass.
Is it wrong to prefer one form of music over another due to personal upbringing/environment/surrounding? Is it wrong to have a favorite hymn because the words and melody conspire to elicit a heightened sense of the majesty of God and abounding love of the Almighty?
I think that’s very appropriate. 🙂

Style is not as important as substance. Music that brings to mind the majesty and awe of God is good music for Church, regardless of the style.
 
Music is pleasing to the ear and inspires the soul. I assume that is the purpose. Why have music at all if the words are sufficient?

Is it wrong to prefer one form of music over another due to personal upbringing/environment/surrounding? Is it wrong to have a favorite hymn because the words and melody conspire to elicit a heightened sense of the majesty of God and abounding love of the Almighty?

I hope you didn’t take my comments as insulting the tradition of the Church. More and more, I realize tradition is important to Catholics.
EIFA,

There is a Catholic Church that differs from place to place…look here…

peopleofhope.net/

home.catholicweb.com/StAntoninusNewarkNJ/

try an Eastern Catholic Church

avmbcc.org/history/index.shtml

byzcath.org/index.php/find-a-parish-mainmenu-111?catid=79

Just keep looking…you will find one…🙂
 
If you wished to put that perfect gem into a setting what would you use? Copper? Tin? Steel? Or would you use silver or gold or platinum or some other truly worthy metal? The same with music for the Mass–the highest prayer of the Church, the gem of which is the consecration of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. The setting, the music, is not meant to entertain, but for worshiping God and to teach us the truths of God beyond the “I love Jesus and he loves me” type of thing. The responses are prayer, not “songs” and are a part of the eucharistic prayer. In a word, it’s special.
I’m glad to know Catholics think Protestant worship songs are cheap copper imitations compared to authentic gold music passed down through the ages in the real, true, only Catholic Church of Christ. We may put emphasis on different aspects of the Divine, but honestly, this is insulting. Perhaps you didn’t mean to do that, but I always thought Catholics and Protestants are different organs of the same Body, but it’s clear at least some Catholics consider us like tumors or overgrown fingernail.
simplistic feel good songs that pass for religious music in some circles.
All this time during worship, I was just having a “feel good” moment…
no matter if the settings aren’t truly worthy, is better than none at all. I would hope that in time, as you learn more about the Catholic faith and its riches that your taste would mature and you would grow in understanding to the point that the truly worthy music would mean something to you. 🙂
I get the hint that “feelings” are considered immature by Catholics and not of substance, even if that feeling is inspiration on the works of God, shunning the sinful ways of the past, and desiring to follow a path God desires for us. Only via contemplation and tender music can we TRULY understand.
 
"Jesus Christ, I think upon your sacrifice
You became nothing, poured out to death
Many times, I’ve wondered at your gift of life
I’m in that place once again
I’m in that place once again

And once again I look upon the cross where you died
I’m humbled by your mercy and I’m broken inside
Once again I thank you
Once again I pour out my life

Now you are, exalted to the highest place
King of the heavens, where one day I’ll bow
But for now, I marvel at this saving grace
I’m full of praise once again
I’m full of praise once again"

Tell me how this is “cheap”. Tell me how this song is “unworthy”. Tell me the tears I shed to this music is “simplistic feel good song”.

Yes, there are songs that are more upbeat, and dare I say, sounds like rock and roll, but the same thought and contemplation that Catholics put into their music are present in those songs as well.
 
I apologize for the angry response. This whole experience has turned upside-down my belief that Catholics and Protestants share equally in the grace of Christ. For my experience in the Protestant church to be called “unworthy” and “copper” was indeed hurtful. I realize I’m in a Catholic forum, and I know there are those in the Protestant faith that have hurt Catholics through the negation and silencing of their faith, but what I have gained is the experience of invalidation. I pray the grace of God will remove my human fault of ignorance and unrighteous indignation, and also pray for your forgiveness for my hostile response.
 
"Jesus Christ, I think upon your sacrifice
You became nothing, poured out to death
Many times, I’ve wondered at your gift of life
I’m in that place once again
I’m in that place once again

And once again I look upon the cross where you died
I’m humbled by your mercy and I’m broken inside
Once again I thank you
Once again I pour out my life

Now you are, exalted to the highest place
King of the heavens, where one day I’ll bow
But for now, I marvel at this saving grace
I’m full of praise once again
I’m full of praise once again"

Tell me how this is “cheap”. Tell me how this song is “unworthy”. Tell me the tears I shed to this music is “simplistic feel good song”.
I think it has the same problem as a lot of Catholic music has, too - the flaw is that it is all about “me”. (And before my fellow Catholics get cocky, there is a lot of “me me me me” in the Catholic hymn books, as well.)

The words “I” or “me” should not appear in any hymn or song for worship.

They are appropriate for Sunday School or other gatherings where the focus is on the individual and his or her relationship with Christ, but not for worship. Worship should be totally focused on Him, and should not have any element of “I” or “me” in it.
 
You are holy (you are holy)
You are mighty (you are mighty)
You are worthy (you are worthy)
Worthy of praise (worthy of praise)
I will follow (I will follow)
I will listen (I will listen)
I will love you (I will love You)
All of my days (all of my days)
I will sing to
And worship
The King who is worthy
I will love and adore Him
I will bow down before Him
I will sing to and worship the King who is worthy
I will love and adore him
I will bow down before Him
You’re my prince of peace
And I will live my life for You
You are Lord of Lords
You are King of Kings
You are mighty God
Lord of everything
You’re Emmanuel
You’re the great I am
You’re The Prince of peace
Who is the Lamb
You’re my saving God
You’re my saving grace
You will rein forever
You are ancient of days
You are alpha, omega, beginning and end
You’re my savior, messiah, redeemer, and friend
You are my prince of peace and I will live my life for you.
You’re my saving grace
You will reign
You are holy (you are holy)
You are mighty (you are mighty)
You are worthy (you are worthy)
Worthy of praise (worthy of praise)
I will follow (I will follow)
I will listen (I will listen)
I will love you (I will love You)
All of my days (all of my days)
I don’t suppose there’s a catechism on the appropriate You:I ratio…:hmmm: 🙂
 
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