Hypothetical conversion process

[jmcrae]

I think the priest (or whoever is in charge) will definitely have his patience tested by me…

You can’t be any worse than I was the first time I did RCIA.

I highly recommend it - and don’t worry - they are strong enough for you. They have met people before who had lots of questions.

I am the coordinator of RCIA at my parish right now, and I love it when people have good questions.

8 months is about the amount of time I have until the end of graduate school. Perhaps I will get my degree and become Catholic at the same time…? :ehh:

It depends on the start time of the RCIA in your area. Most of them aim for people to receive their Sacraments at Easter time, so the start time is typically August or September.

 

[Porknpie]

Pork you are doing a jam up job here on CAF. I can only imagine how much better your answers would come across in a classroom atmosphere. You know - with the hand waving and other gestures…I never learned how to talk well without the use of my hands.

Peace Brother!!!

How’d you know I am Italian?

 

[adf417]

How’d you know I am Italian?

I knew it all along:bluelite:
The accent of your left hand.

 

[EIF5A]

After which sacrament does a Catholic become “born again”? Is it a personal conviction of the message of the Gospel or is there a public declaration of said conviction?

 

[joe370]

After which sacrament does a Catholic become “born again”? Is it a personal conviction of the message of the Gospel or is there a public declaration of said conviction?

Baptism. It’s a personal conviction to live the message of the Gospel. And yes there is a public declaration of said conviction?

 

[mlz]

You would be required to go through one to two years of study. This process is called the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults (RCIA). There are various stages of this process and no strings attatched. The purpose is to make sure that the one accepting the Catholic faith understands the Catholic faith.

For me I didn’t have to go through this. It depends on your knowledge and your priest

mlz

 

[Miriam1947]

The Flesh and Blood are offerings to God? How can I offer something that does not belong to me or comes from my heart? I thought Bread and Wine were meant for remembrance of the sacrifice of Jesus… Is God displeased if I partake of the Bread and Wine symbolically in remembrance of God’s Sacrifice?

1 Corinthians 11:29

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

How can you eat and drink damnation to yourself with a symbol?

 

[joe370]

1 Corinthians 11:29

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

How can you eat and drink damnation to yourself with a symbol?

You can’t. No one ever responds to me when I mention that passage.

 

[EIF5A]

1 Corinthians 11:29

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

How can you eat and drink damnation to yourself with a symbol?

I’m not going to argue Real Presence here. There are enough threads on CAF it seems.

 

[joe370]

I’m not going to argue Real Presence here. There are enough threads on CAF it seems.

 

[Miriam1947]

snip… For example, when Nixon was impeached, did that mean the office of POTUS was corrupt and needed to be replace by something else? Of course not. We merely replaced the man holding that office.

Nixon was not impeached, he resigned (if he hadn’t resigned he probably would have been impeached). Clinton was impeached for lying under oath.

Being on the old side I remember both instances quite well.

 

[Nicea325]

If I believe I have already been sealed by the Holy Spirit (not through a public ceremony but through a supernatural experience), do I have to believe it was inauthentic and that only through confirmation will I be sealed by the Holy Spirit?

Well received,but were you physically baptized? Under the Trinitarian Formula and with water? Yes or no? Confirmation completes or moreover strengthens your baptismal graces one received at baptism.

 

[EIF5A]

Well received,but were you physically baptized? Under the Trinitarian Formula and with water? Yes or no? Confirmation completes or moreover strengthens your baptismal graces one received at baptism.

\

Trinitarian formula with sprinkled water. Infant baptism and during high school.

 

[CopticChristian]

Alrighty then…

youtube.com/watch?v=C9oHtPAtGv8&list=FL0Jne8pbUMsYJ3Bu3ymDeAQ

Not the best video accompaniment — I just like the song. (Those Catholics not interested in electric guitar and drums should not click.) There are other renditions to this song — Youtube should have others. Perhaps listen to this hearty song when stuck in traffic and ill-will and malicious thoughts creep up. :harp:

EIF,

I gotta be honest…when you posted “one tin soldier”…I immediately thought of Billy Jack, the guy getting kicked in the face, but I like Billy Jack, I’m a martial artist, and I kind of like that song too…anyway…this song is cool.

I can imagine that it might even be used in a worship service at some point in the liturgy as it rings true…check out this Alleluia…kind of similar…it is actually part of the worship service of the mass…I tell my daughter that Alleluia is nothing more than Yippeee…

youtube.com/watch?v=QjS2QakC1J0

 

[EIF5A]

EIF,

I gotta be honest…when you posted “one tin soldier”…I immediately thought of Billy Jack, the guy getting kicked in the face, but I like Billy Jack, I’m a martial artist, and I kind of like that song too…anyway…this song is cool.

I can imagine that it might even be used in a worship service at some point in the liturgy as it rings true…check out this Alleluia…kind of similar…it is actually part of the worship service of the mass…I tell my daughter that Alleluia is nothing more than Yippeee…

youtube.com/watch?v=QjS2QakC1J0

I posted “One Tin Soldier”? Am I sleep-posting on CAF? Oh dear…

I like that song you posted! I don’t feel like I’m in a medieval cathedral with a single ray of light shining in. It’s uplifting and makes me want to worship God. I’m having feelings and not being meditative enough…gahh!

 

[CopticChristian]

I posted “One Tin Soldier”? Am I sleep-posting on CAF? Oh dear…

I like that song you posted! I don’t feel like I’m in a medieval cathedral with a single ray of light shining in. It’s uplifting and makes me want to worship God. I’m having feelings and not being meditative enough…gahh!

EIF,

I appreciate you. I appreciate that you came to this forum. You say you were Baptized in the Trinitarian Formula as in infant, Yippeee, that’s Alleluia…I/We believe that this is how you were born again and I/We believe that you have recieved the gifts of Faith/Hope/Charity…Yippeee…Allow me to suggest that you take all the thoughts and suggestions in and filter them…lots coming at you…I ask you to bear with me as I would like to ask you to do a few things…first an introduction…American Catholicism has a history. Allow me to share this with you. It is available in the United States Catechism for adults.

Bishop John Carrol was ordained the first Bishop of the Americas in 1790 on the feast of the Assumption…In 1808 after much work and the establishment of the diocese of Boston and Bardstown, Baltimore was the first Archdiocese established in the United States. Because of Bishop Carrol’s work of 25 years the number of Catholics increased fourfold, the number of clergy doubled, he established 3 seminaries, 3 colleges for men and several academies for women. One Bishop did so much for Christianity in America.

In 1884 at the third plenary council of Baltimore the Bishops of the United States decided to publish a national Catechism with 421 questions in 37 Chapters…you can find it here…it serves as a useful tool for you to check and see what was used by the Catholic Church for the faithful. It is an easy to understand question and answer format. I suggest you look at it and cruise the various areas, like the Church for instance. It may guide your questions on this forum….

catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/

At the 20th anniversary of Vatican II, in1985, Bishops convened in Rome with a desire for a universal Catechism to serve as a reference for Catechisms that would be prepared in various regions. This is available online.

The United States Catechism for Adults was developed by United States Conference of Bishops and was approved by the full body of Bishops in 2004. Many Catholics probably are not aware of it and have not read it….note that the Bishops believe it is good for RCIA and for those wishing to be acquainted with Catholicism…now if a Bishop says so, then I’m all in…

It is our hope that this United States Catholic Catechism for Adults will be an aid and a guide for deepening faith. It may serve as a resource for the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults and for the ongoing cate-chesis of adults. It will also be of interest for those who wish to become acquainted with Catholicism. Finally, it can serve as an invitation for all the faithful to continue growing in the understanding of Jesus Christ and his saving love for all people.

I again suggest you get a copy of The United States Catechism for adults. It is filled with so many stories of Saints that you say you admire. It may introduce you to some you may not know. With that in mind, this Friday, January 4, 2013 we celebrate the first Native-born North American Saint…get the Catechism so you can review her story, it is (name removed by moderator)siring.

Elizabeth Ann Seton died in 1821 at the age of forty-six, and she was canonized in 1975 as the first native-born North American saint. Her feast day is celebrated on January 4.
St. Elizabeth Seton and her journey of faith point to the reality that in all of us there is a longing to know God and to draw closer to him. The story of how she responded to that longing is a suitable introduction to our open¬ing lesson on the human longing and capacity for God.

More to come EIF…just bear with me…have some stuff to do…I would like to suggest a way for you to understand all of this wonderful information…just give me the Ok…Ok…

 

[EIF5A]

EIF,

I appreciate you. I appreciate that you came to this forum. You say you were Baptized in the Trinitarian Formula as in infant, Yippeee, that’s Alleluia…I/We believe that this is how you were born again and I/We believe that you have recieved the gifts of Faith/Hope/Charity…Yippeee…Allow me to suggest that you take all the thoughts and suggestions in and filter them…lots coming at you…I ask you to bear with me as I would like to ask you to do a few things…first an introduction…American Catholicism has a history. Allow me to share this with you. It is available in the United States Catechism for adults.

Bishop John Carrol was ordained the first Bishop of the Americas in 1790 on the feast of the Assumption…In 1808 after much work and the establishment of the diocese of Boston and Bardstown, Baltimore was the first Archdiocese established in the United States. Because of Bishop Carrol’s work of 25 years the number of Catholics increased fourfold, the number of clergy doubled, he established 3 seminaries, 3 colleges for men and several academies for women. One Bishop did so much for Christianity in America.

In 1884 at the third plenary council of Baltimore the Bishops of the United States decided to publish a national Catechism with 421 questions in 37 Chapters…you can find it here…it serves as a useful tool for you to check and see what was used by the Catholic Church for the faithful. It is an easy to understand question and answer format. I suggest you look at it and cruise the various areas, like the Church for instance. It may guide your questions on this forum….

catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/

At the 20th anniversary of Vatican II, in1985, Bishops convened in Rome with a desire for a universal Catechism to serve as a reference for Catechisms that would be prepared in various regions. This is available online.

The United States Catechism for Adults was developed by United States Conference of Bishops and was approved by the full body of Bishops in 2004. Many Catholics probably are not aware of it and have not read it….note that the Bishops believe it is good for RCIA and for those wishing to be acquainted with Catholicism…now if a Bishop says so, then I’m all in…

I again suggest you get a copy of The United States Catechism for adults. It is filled with so many stories of Saints that you say you admire. It may introduce you to some you may not know. With that in mind, this Friday, January 4, 2013 we celebrate the first Native-born North American Saint…get the Catechism so you can review her story, it is (name removed by moderator)siring.

More to come EIF…just bear with me…have some stuff to do…I would like to suggest a way for you to understand all of this wonderful information…just give me the Ok…Ok…

I am listening…

If the RCIA director ever replies back to my email, I have plenty of questions from the list of Q&A in the Catechisms listed on that site.

Also, I’ve read online that some people aren’t happy with the Vatican II. Aren’t Catholics supposed to accept the teachings of the higher-up authorities…?

On a completely unrelated note, what is the general Catholic sentiment of the movie “Sister Act”? I found it to be delightful…hope there weren’t any sacrilege in it.

 

[JustaServant]

EIF5A.
I’ve been observing your threads the past few days. I haven’t had a chance to respond until now. I noticed you asked some questions on Catholic worship and liturgy.
I am a revert after spending almost 2 decades in Baptist churches. I wrote this on my old blog four years ago. I hope it helps.

A Few Thoughts on Catholic Worship.
What many evangelicals do not understand about Catholics is that it is the Sacraments, the Liturgy, and Institution one is drawn to, not to men or leaders.
The Priest is the Celebrant and the representative of Christ in Sacrament. He is merely the instrument God uses in the Sacrament. HE is NOT the sacrament.
A typical Catholic service is one hour (maybe a little over). The sermon is no more than fifteen minutes, and the communion service is simple, quick, and to the point. The music is not “testifying to each other”, it is true praise music giving worship to almighty God. Even if there are contemporary instruments, there is no “performance”, I am involved in the singing. It is worship with my whole body with all of my senses. It is certainly not worship for the lazy.
How did the early church understand worship?
The word worship in scripture means to “prostrate” oneself, to kneel or to bow.
Worship for 2000 years was always liturgical.
The word ‘liturgy’ comes from two Greek words meaning ‘people’ and ‘work’. In its root meaning, liturgy means an act performed for the good of a community. In its restricted meaning, it refers to the public rites and ceremonies officially authorized by the Church.
It is literally the ‘work of the people’ in their common life of prayer and worship. It is used in several places in the New Testament, particularly in Acts 13:1. It is a word “transliterated” into the English language.
A liturgy disciplines our prayers, making them fit for expression, unselfish in content, and comprehensive in scope. It instructs us in the totality of the Christian faith and in the whole range of worship: confession, praise, intercession and self-offering.
The order of a liturgy in its structural framework must be unaltered. Without a fixed order, a liturgy is like a body without a skeleton, a game without rules. A fixed order is necessary if worship is to be corporate. A fixed order keeps the fact of redemption before men’s thoughts continually with fixed
words, expressions and symbolism.
It is simply the “form” of worship, nothing more or less. Liturgy is neither alive nor dead, it simply is.
The Jewish synagogues passed on to Christianity the forms of corporate worship. The reading of scripture, a confession of faith, prayers and the singing of Psalms all have its roots in Jewish worship.
From the Temple and Synagogue worship, the Apostles already knew the rites and the ceremonies that God ordained to worship Him. Only now those rites and ceremonies took on new meaning in Christ and were transferred to the worship rites of primitive Church.
The early Church had a high view of God. Things were not done in a haphazard way. They were done with precision. Worshippers knew something important was happening here. They just did not stumble in and sit for an hour.
They came to worship God. So there are certain things they will do
that they have done before. One of the chief values of a liturgy is that it teaches us both how to pray and what things we should pray for.
There is a certain ceremony and process that the worshipper is bound to, external actions, gestures, movements that are part of the public exercise of divine worship. Worshippers come to worship with their whole bodies, using all the senses. Seeing, hearing, touching, tasting and smelling are all involved in the worship experience.
Worship involves the WHOLE BODY, not just the brain or emotions.

 

[JustaServant]

When matched with the Power of the Holy Spirit, liturgy finds it’s most powerful expression. Words, prayers, creeds, and songs are chosen carefully.
There is precise language that is used, not words chosen in a haphazard way. The language of worship is important, words must be chosen carefully.
The object in liturgical worship is God alone. Not the preacher, not the music. It is a corporate expression of worship to an invisible God. It is not a spectator sport, it is an interactive experience.
It is clear where irreverent worship has taken us in our Western society. What passes for worship in the modern Church are programs and entertainment or turning the Church into a lecture hall. It lacks the heart and soul of true worship. In the modern Church’s efforts to be innovative and create a ‘worship style’ it has manufactured a worship in the pattern of man’s invention, void of meaning.
However, Catholic worship is not without meaning. God has provided an outline, a form of worship that combines with our zeal to create meaning. The worshipper that worships God with every fiber of his being will bring to that service all the love and devotion he has for the Creator.The ‘liturgy’ of the early church was not 3 songs, an offering, the announcements, a special, the sermon, and the invitation. It looked very different. It may have included all those things (except for the invitation), but the center of the worship was different.
So many churches resemble more like a informal meeting on somebody’s back porch, there is no sense of sacredness. The early church understood that. The ‘main event’ was not the “mannagod” shilling his sermon and selling the invitation bench like a telemarketer.’
It is not chaotic in nature. It’s emphasis is not on a subjective “experience”. The problem with basing a theology on subjective experience is that I will always be looking for a bigger ‘experience’. Tongues? Boring, let’s do the holy laughter. Healing? boring, let’s 'get drunk’ in the spirit (little ‘s’ deliberate). Neat new theologies? Oh sure, the popular TV evangelist will comply with that.
I think the key is intimacy. Meeting with God. True, there are charismatic churches I have been in and the worship was wild, over the top. The preacher doing the ‘Benny Hinn bunny hop’ must be seen to be believed. Watching people dance in the aisle, be slain in the Spirit is not for the faint of heart. IT’S CREEPY.
But lets face it, these dear people are looking for that intimacy. But what they don’t understand is that God is not moved by our subjective emotions.
On the other hand, to limit God to a few hymns and a sermon is AVOIDING that intimacy. I think that is why they are uncomfortable and feel ‘creepy’. God not limited to my King James Bible? God on earth NOW? God present in the Eucharist?
Remember when God gave the Ten Commandments, the Israelites told Moses they wanted HIM to speak for God because the voice of God was frightening. When Isaiah saw God on the throne, he fell on his face, as did John in Revelation. It’s SCARY to come face to face with God.

 

[JustaServant]

Jesus said: ‘where two or three are gathered in My Name, there am I in the midst of them.’ In the company of other Christians, we lay hold of the Lord and His abiding presence. The Church is not made up of isolated individuals, but members of the mystical body of Christ Himself. Paul said we are “members one to another”. It is in corporate worship that this is seen the greatest.
Today people think that missing church hurts nobody but themselves. But in the early church, they thought quite the opposite. Separation from fellowship meant separation from the Body of Christ. Without each one’s participation, that Body was dismembered of a necessary limb, unity is broken.
An early church manual said “Since you are the members of Christ, do not scatter yourselves from the Church by not assembling. For since you have Christ for your head, as He promised, do not be neglectful of yourselves nor deprive the Savior of His members, nor rend and scatter His Body”. People who were absent due to no fault of their own were brought the Communion elements by others.
People who selfishly judge public worship by ‘I got nothing out it’ do not think of what they can put into it out of selflessness.
There is a respect and a dignity to liturgical worship that I do not see in evangelical/fundamentalist churches. Saying prayers and confessions out loud in unison has more meaning with the power of the Holy Spirit. It is not a mark of ‘dead worship’, it is a mark of living worship.
It is the Holy Spirit that gives life to worship. Liturgical worship contains no 45 minute sermon with jokes and ‘what I think’. It is a simple message fit nicely into the service. There is more public scripture reading in a liturgical church than in many 'Bible-believing’ churches.The smoke and mirrors of the mega-churches burns out pretty quickly. God puts in each person a desire to worship, something. Even a non-Christian worships, it might not be God, but it’s worship nonetheless. One cannot worship with just the mind. One cannot worship by sitting in a pew staring. Liturgical worship feeds that desire.
I think many evangelicals are looking for genuine stable authority on Biblical issues. I know I grow very tired of the latest evangelical ‘Pope with a Bible’. Preaching the Word is very important, but the preacher is not and should not be the center of worship. That is very dangerous.I also think evangelicals wish to know the mystery and awe of entering into the presence of God. The quietness, the silent prayer. That is NEVER found in Baptist churches. Jesus said “true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.” We do not dictate to God how He is worshiped. It’s not about us, its about giving Him a sacrifice of praise for what He has done for us.