I’m Protestant. Change my mind

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This is why the forum did stay open.l, its one of the best resources for other Christians to ask questions.
 
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Incidentally, for anyone curious about the difference between CAF and Reddit, this is a perfect case study.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/kaqgw0/im_protestant_change_my_mind

This same user (presumably) posted the same question on two different websites, at approximately the same time (7-8 hours ago).

As of this posting, on CAF they have:
  • 21 replies
  • not organized in any particular order
  • the OP hasn’t engaged with the replies to say they’ve found any particularly helpful (except to respectfully thank us for suggesting they reach out to flesh-and-blood parish representatives).
And on Reddit they have:
  • 76 replies
  • Ranked by the community (the top reply already has 188 ‘points’ (net upvotes from community members), the next top reply has 98 points, etc)
  • the OP has substantially engaged with the replies they received there, commenting that some made helpful points they never thought of before, have directed them to resources they will now explore further, and asking follow-up questions.
I’m not a Reddit-Salesman. 😄 Just thought it’s a good case-study for those CAF-ers curious about the difference between fora, as CAF approaches it’s end-date this month, and some CAF-ers consider potentially joining Reddit.
 
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Magnus97 said:
Also, as a Protestant, I have a few questions or concerns when it comes to particular doctrinal beliefs within the Catholic Church. Mainly, the concept of immaculate conception, infallibility of the Pope, the concept and practice of confession through a priestly medium, and the practice of praying to saints.
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Hello, thank you for the opportunity to witness to the Amazingness of the Catholic Church, let us begin with prayer!

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
John 17:22-23
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one: I in them, and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.
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Amen!

Jumping right into considerations of laying down “Protest”-antism for Catholicism, we begin with the Immaculate Conception of Mary.
Luke 1:28
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
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To be full of grace means to be completely without sin because there is no sin in grace, therefore Mary is completely without sin from conception through death.

In consideration of the Infallibility of the Pope, here is wisdom:
On no account persuade yourselves that it is right and proper to follow your own private judgement.

Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [celebrated] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it.
  • Ignatius to the Magnesians §7 and to the Smyrneans §8
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Regarding the practice of confession through a priestly medium, consider James and John are sharing we should confess to those ordained in ministry, in particular the priests.
James 5:16
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

16 Confess therefore your sins one to another
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John 20:23
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
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Regarding Prayer to Saints
Consider that you cannot read the Bible without praying to Saints because in reading the Bible, although it is listening to God, it is physically listening to humans that are sharing the Word of God. As examples, in this dialogue we prayed to St. John, St. Luke and St. James, and a countless Saints and Martyrs that carried forth the words, and they interceded for us by speaking and sharing God’s message with us.

I love you, God and the Catholic Church loves you more, & may we become one with their love sooner than later!

✞
 
You’re right on the money. I did make that post as well. I would say though that the reason I have been more active on Reddit as opposed to here, is because the sheer number of comments on my Reddit thread. It blew up rather quickly. Also, I do find Reddit more intuitive, or more user friendly.

I didn’t set out to make a case study between these two communities haha. It just kinda happened. But no matter which one, both communities have been very helpful and displayed kindness and toleration that as a Protestant, we are sometimes told doesn’t exist within Catholicism. So thank you all!
 
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As mentioned, this conversation will end, along with these forums, at the end of the month. I’ll just toss this out for your consideration.

In the Catholic Church you find the fullness of God’s written word. No books rejected for bogus historical or theological reasons.

In the Catholic Church you find the fullness of God’s grace, most especially in the sacraments.

In the Catholic Church you find the fullness of God’s truth, not just in scripture but in all Sacred Tradition which was given to the Apostles.

In the Catholic Church you find the fullness of God’s presence in worship, in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and in particular in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Jesus now and forever has a human nature, a human body and a human soul. Only in the Eucharist is Jesus present not just in his divinity but also in his humanity.

If possible in these crazy times, find yourself a good Mass (so many are shamefully bad, especially those offered by many of our older priests - our younger priests are generally much more solid) and let that experience work on you.
 
If you PM me I am happy to discuss. The faith has to be caught! Start by reading a few of the church fathers. They are like the first 200 bishops who decided what our worship looked like. Jesus did not leave a manual! BTW, We worship the Trinity! I pray the Lord guide you on your journey!
 
There is a character limit so I will try to be brief and I hope it helps.

I hope you don’t judge those who judge you when you were younger, as Catholics it is our goal to strive for God’s perfection (regardless of whether or not we actually achieve it). Often times this isn’t at the forefront of the mind and so it can be somewhat, especially in children I imagine. That being said, since we are all imperfect, it is good to strive towards perfection knowing that God will not abandon us - whatever your final denominational decision is, keep that idea in mind.

The Immaculate Conception is merely saying that because Christ was born without Original Sin, so too was Mary (thus allowing her true freedom and making her consent in being the mother of God even more important). This particular doctrine was actually quite controversial when it became Ex-Cathedra because it couldn’t be proven from scripture. However, as an ex-protestant, I don’t find this belief to be burdensome since I don’t particularly venerate Mary.

My views on the Infallibility of the Pope technically go against Church teaching so I am not going into that.

Praying to saints is not literally praying to them for their individual help. I know that it’s a bit misleading. Really, it is asking for intercession. Just like when people pray to Mary (you know, the Mother of God) they do so hoping to receive help in their prayers to God.

Confession is the official, no-doubts-about-it, method of having sin forgive past baptism. This is not the sole means of forgiveness. It is just the official process by which we can say that “yes, this grace is dispensed because of the promise of God to forgive the sins which the priest forgives”. That being said, it is part of the Catholic Canon Law (i think) that you must confess your sins once a year.

If you have any other specific questions, you can click on my name and message me.
 
Yeah, we wouldn’t want someone to fall into the trap of Modalism… that would be bad…
 
Magnus97 said:
Hello All,

I apologize if this is the wrong category for this kind of thread, but as the title suggests, I am Protestant. Now, I am a non denominational Protestant who is looking for a denomination to call home, if you will. This said though, I am also open to hearing the Catholic side of things. I have a very minute experience of Catholicism admittedly, with one year of Catholic school as a child. Being raised Protestant, when we were asked to recite Particular Catholic doctrinal sayings or anything of the like, I had no idea what to do. You can guess how popular I was with the other kids in my school, many of whom had been doing this kind of thing their whole lives. I only went to the school for one year, and whether or not it’s justified or not, this experience put me off from the whole idea of Catholicism for a long time.

Also, as a Protestant, I have a few questions or concerns when it comes to particular doctrinal beliefs within the Catholic Church. Mainly, the concept of immaculate conception, infallibility of the Pope, the concept and practice of confession through a priestly medium, and the practice of praying to saints. I have other areas of question or concern, these are just a few.

Finally, please know that if I have stated anything erroneous in this post, that it was and is not my intention to do so. I only know what I know at the time of writing, and like I said, My experience and knowledge on Catholicism is rather limited. I truly just want a discussion on the matter, and to know more about the faith. And who knows, maybe you all will change my mind…
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Magnus: I am Orthodox not Catholic, but our arguments work as well:
  1. If Protestantism is correct, then Jesus lied: “I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18). Jesus is saying that His Church will not fall into a grave destructive error or apostasy - it will always be around from 33AD onward. And there are only two churches that can trace their lineage unbroken back to that time, Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
  2. If you’re Protestant, how do you know what books to read in the Bible? The Bible didn’t fall from heaven when Jesus ascended. A Church had to canonize the Bible in order for you to get it. By the way, the original Canon (which Orthodox still use) had more books than the Protestants, because the Protestants took out several book in the 1500s after they were in the Bible for over 1,000 years. Here’s the Council document in Latin and English:
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  1. We should be in the Church that Jesus wants us to be part of. That isn’t going to be a Protestant Church because He didn’t found them - Luther, Calvin and Wesley did. The way Protestants do things with pastors is a completely foreign system for the majority of Christians who ever lived (in fact 75% of them, for the first 1,500 years of Christianity)
 
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Dan_Defender said:
In a nutshell: Jesus founded a Church with Peter at its head. That is the Catholic Church. It can trace back to Jesus
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I like this. It reminds me it is about discipleship. 12 men lives with & learned with/from the master. They then lived & taught disciples. & on & on.

Our Bishops carry on the mission of shepherding God’s flock. But our Saints really bring home the idea of discipleship. Reading, learning, living with our Saints we continue that discipleship.

In my mind anyway.
 
MNathaniel said:
And on Reddit they have…
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@MNathaniel, thanks for the time you’ve taken to explain Reddit. I’ve seen your helpful info in other threads, but this concrete example really seals the deal for me.

As of now, I’m not planning to migrate anywhere, but if I do, it’s likely to be Reddit. It sounds like it suits me as I’m more interested in apologetics over social conversation and I mostly read (rather than post) to gather knowledge and information. Reddit’s method of bubbling up the best posts to the top and burying the garbage sounds great.

I have always avoided Reddit due to its reputation as a cesspool (which was confirmed the few times I’ve wandered in), but it sounds like the Catholicism subreddit really is worthwhile.

Thank you @Jon_Sorensen for giving us a month to wind down and have this kind of information exchange!
 
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Divinity of Jesus

It is written that “If you truly believe in the divinity of Christ, then you believe everything that He said. And “If everything that Jesus said and did were written, the world could not contain the books.” So where do we go to get the answers? Simon, Hebrew for listener, a fisherman was there. What could have Simon heard, seen and witnessed? Jesus curing the sick, changing water into wine and walking on water. How could you not follow someone with this power. How can this Man Jesus accomplish all of these miracles. And making the blind see, raising the dead and allowing Simon to walk on water. Can you imagine the questions waking up in the morning being Simon? The answer would be,“Where is Jesus”. Where, where, where. This Man is amazing. Then one day when Jesus asked him, who are they saying I Am?, Simon response, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets”. Jesus, pressing Simon a little harder, looked again at him. Simon now a little scared realizing a different question was about to be asked. Jesus asks, “Who do you say I Am.” Simon’s answer was nothing short of, “You are God”. This realization was a gift from Jesus’ father in heaven, And the four most powerful words in the bible, “The Word became Flesh” changed Simon’s name to Peter, Petros, Rock, Cephas. The name change is to underline the transformation of the person whom hear words of God, Simon to a spiritual rock Peter. The rock of the faith, “Jesus is God”, became the cornerstone of the Church and everything Peter had heard and witnessed. Again if everything were written the world could not contain the books. So where do we go the get the answers?
 
No sola scriptura. No Protestantism. simple as that.

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