I Absolutely Love Pope Francis!

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Phemie said:
Because of history? Because the Cardinals have free will? Because Cardinal Ratzinger once said “There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!”
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Yes, Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was asked on Bavarian television in 1997 if the Holy Spirit is responsible for who gets elected…

"I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope. … I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit’s role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.

There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!"
 
LongingSoul said:
Yes, Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was asked on Bavarian television in 1997 if the Holy Spirit is responsible for who gets elected…

"I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope. … I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit’s role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.

There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!"
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In the Middle Ages, a very dark period in church history, there were Popes that the Holy Spirit may not have had a hand in picking
 
I adore Pope Francis. I, personally, love his call to start with the gospel as our first message. I have learned much on this forum but sometimes I want to bang my head over how legalistic so many on here can be.

I think it’s because I do not understand how someone’s life could be so perfect that they must spend so much time arguing and worrying and stressing over how someone else’s life is being lived. If you see someone else doing wrong and are in a position to let them know - fine. But to worry about how some unspecified person will possibly interpret the Pope’s words in such a way as to believe they are okay to sin … nope, not for me…I’ll just focus instead on how his words challenge me to live my life as a better Catholic and to better serve others.

Every time I read something the Pope has to say, it speaks to my heart and helps me see more what I need to work on in my life, and motivates me to go get busy 🙂
 
tafan said:
All valid points, I am just too idle and in the mood to be a little argumentative.

I would say it is better to just reflect on the holy office he holds and the meaning if that, than to have to rely on speculation about how he was chosen for that office. He is , as you say, Christ’s Vicar on earth. That should be plenty to reflect upon. It does not matter how he was chosen.
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Tafan,
I don’t find you argumentative - it’s a good discussion. Thanks.

Peace
James
 
Phemie said:
Because of history? Because the Cardinals have free will? Because Cardinal Ratzinger once said “There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!”
Click to expand...
LongingSoul said:
Yes, Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was asked on Bavarian television in 1997 if the Holy Spirit is responsible for who gets elected…

"I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope. … I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit’s role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.

There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!"
Click to expand...
LegoGE1947 said:
In the Middle Ages, a very dark period in church history, there were Popes that the Holy Spirit may not have had a hand in picking
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All very valid points. Thank you for sharing these.

I guess that I am thinking mainly in “modern” terms…the modern papacy which I would define as those since about 1929 and the Lateran Treaty which basically removed the Pope from being a temporal, civil leader as well as a spiritual one. In my mind, the references to bad popes above were brought about mainly because of these dual and often times conflicting roles. In times past, the needs of the “papal states” and other “worldly” matters could / would have weighed more heavily on the minds of those electing the pope.

In this modern era…since 1929…this conflict has been largely removed. The Cardinals are now able to concentrate mainly on spiritual matters in the selection and thus are more open to the prompting of the Spirit and I think it shows in the selections made. The Popes since then have largely been free to devote themselves to prayer and to listening and to sharing God’s word with us.

This is not to say that the Pope is not acutely aware of things political or that he does not have to be diplomatically savvy - just that it is different now than in the days of the “Papal States” and the “Holy Roman Empire”…

Sorry - Didn’t mean to get carried away here.

Suffice it to say that recently there have been a number of threads on the Holy Father and some posts that were, shall we say, less than flattering.
In those threads, I thought it a good idea to remind people of who he is…
The Vicar of Christ.

Thanks everyone for the excellent conversation.

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
All very valid points. Thank you for sharing these.

I guess that I am thinking mainly in “modern” terms…the modern papacy which I would define as those since about 1929 and the Lateran Treaty which basically removed the Pope from being a temporal, civil leader as well as a spiritual one. In my mind, the references to bad popes above were brought about mainly because of these dual and often times conflicting roles. In times past, the needs of the “papal states” and other “worldly” matters could / would have weighed more heavily on the minds of those electing the pope.

In this modern era…since 1929…this conflict has been largely removed. The Cardinals are now able to concentrate mainly on spiritual matters in the selection and thus are more open to the prompting of the Spirit and I think it shows in the selections made. The Popes since then have largely been free to devote themselves to prayer and to listening and to sharing God’s word with us.

This is not to say that the Pope is not acutely aware of things political or that he does not have to be diplomatically savvy - just that it is different now than in the days of the “Papal States” and the “Holy Roman Empire”…

Sorry - Didn’t mean to get carried away here.

Suffice it to say that recently there have been a number of threads on the Holy Father and some posts that were, shall we say, less than flattering.
In those threads, I thought it a good idea to remind people of who he is…
The Vicar of Christ.

Thanks everyone for the excellent conversation.

Peace
James
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🤷:tiphat:
 
LongingSoul said:
This may give some reassurance. Under Pope Francis, a Melbourne (Aus) priest has been not only defrocked but excommunicated for his support of women priests and the gay lifestyle. It was a severe consequence for severe defiance of Catholic teaching.

news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2013/09/21/10/12/melbourne-priest-excommunicated-by-vatican
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Thank you. Since actions speak louder than (often confusing) words, this does give reassurance. I do not think that those of us who prefer doctrine to be handled in a specific, even somewhat legalistic way without danger of ambiguity are necessarily the same people who are concerned with what everyone else is doing and think we are perfect. We are simply aware of the way things snowball and how much harder it is to regain clarity than to lose it. That is a logical point having more to do with our particular intellectual leanings than whether we are judgmental towards others. Is it not judgmental to assume so?
 
LongingSoul said:
This may give some reassurance. Under Pope Francis, a Melbourne (Aus) priest has been not only defrocked but excommunicated for his support of women priests and the gay lifestyle. It was a severe consequence for severe defiance of Catholic teaching.

news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2013/09/21/10/12/melbourne-priest-excommunicated-by-vatican
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This is the kind of thing I hope to see more of: the pope dealing with heresy and cleaning the mess. I’m sure there are many such things that happen behind the closed doors and we will not hear about them, but stories such as the one you linked to make me feel assured that pope Francis is what the church needs right now.
 
CradleJourney said:
I adore Pope Francis. I, personally, love his call to start with the gospel as our first message. I have learned much on this forum but sometimes I want to bang my head over how legalistic so many on here can be.

I think it’s because I do not understand how someone’s life could be so perfect that they must spend so much time arguing and worrying and stressing over how someone else’s life is being lived. If you see someone else doing wrong and are in a position to let them know - fine. But to worry about how some unspecified person will possibly interpret the Pope’s words in such a way as to believe they are okay to sin … nope, not for me…I’ll just focus instead on how his words challenge me to live my life as a better Catholic and to better serve others.

Every time I read something the Pope has to say, it speaks to my heart and helps me see more what I need to work on in my life, and motivates me to go get busy 🙂
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Well said.
 
I love him, too. But he’s the first pope that I’ve really been aware of, so I have nobody to compare him to.

I do think he is exactly what we need right now. We need to speak the truth, and the pope does that. But he also won’t let us forget about other important things, like loving one another and looking out for the poor. 🙂

The media will always twist whatever he says, but they do that to everyone. :o
 
Country_Gal said:
He’s definitely contributing to my desire to return to the Church. 👍
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i see this as a comment of many people on the news articles written by him, i just hope people come back its because of what the church has always taught is realized to be truth and not due to cult of personality.
 
I love this quote:

He said, ““I see clearly…that the thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle. It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars! You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else. Heal the wounds, heal the wounds…. And you have to start from the ground up.”

I see that a lot here. We spent a LOT of time talking about issues like birth control and issues of homosexuality. Threads that go on and on, and another to take their place. I hear the Pope saying that we are missing major injuries while we obsess about these things. Once brought to God, the person can start to heal and perhaps discern some of these other things. But people DO get embedded in their own mission while missing the big picture.

My own mission is pro-life – it is where the majority of my volunteer time goes. I sometimes remind myself not to focus so much on “saving the baby”, God has the soul of the little one in his care. My job is to love the mama and thus bring her to God. When you let go of your own agenda, and just love love love, it is amazing what God can do when we are able to get over ourselves.

This is my first post in a long time. To be frank, it can be hard to be new to Catholicism, and endure the constant battery of judgement, even if you agree with what is being said. Sometimes, “the truth” is presented without humility and without grace, and without real love for the other person posting, just a desire to prove the Catholicism is “right”. Enough times, and even if you have won the argument you have lost the war, and the other person just moves on.

Pope Francis perhaps brought me back a little.
 
Gwendolen said:
My own mission is pro-life – it is where the majority of my volunteer time goes. I sometimes remind myself not to focus so much on “saving the baby”, God has the soul of the little one in his care. My job is to love the mama and thus bring her to God. When you let go of your own agenda, and just love love love, it is amazing what God can do when we are able to get over ourselves.
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That’s quite the message. You have a very good point.
 
JRKH said:
Good - I’m glad that we agree…The Holy Spirit inspired the Cardinals to elect this man.
To me that is the same as God pointing a finger at him.

My intent is not to shut down discussion. Rather it is simply to help us keep in mind who we are talking and who put him where he is.
I don’t believe that I have ever said that we are disobeying God by discussing the pope. If I have given you that impression, I do apologize.

It just seems some are so busy taking about what the pope did or did not say or how he said it - worried about how the “world” might interpret it - that there seems little thought given to what God might be trying to tell us, the faithful, through this man who is Christ’s Vicar.
To me - this is what should be more important. What is Christ, through Francis, telling us.

Peace
James
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Awesome!
 
Gwendolen said:
I love this quote:

He said, ““I see clearly…that the thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle. It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars! You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else. Heal the wounds, heal the wounds…. And you have to start from the ground up.”

I see that a lot here. We spent a LOT of time talking about issues like birth control and issues of homosexuality. Threads that go on and on, and another to take their place. I hear the Pope saying that we are missing major injuries while we obsess about these things. Once brought to God, the person can start to heal and perhaps discern some of these other things. But people DO get embedded in their own mission while missing the big picture.

My own mission is pro-life – it is where the majority of my volunteer time goes. I sometimes remind myself not to focus so much on “saving the baby”, God has the soul of the little one in his care. My job is to love the mama and thus bring her to God. When you let go of your own agenda, and just love love love, it is amazing what God can do when we are able to get over ourselves.

This is my first post in a long time. To be frank, it can be hard to be new to Catholicism, and endure the constant battery of judgement, even if you agree with what is being said. Sometimes, “the truth” is presented without humility and without grace, and without real love for the other person posting, just a desire to prove the Catholicism is “right”. Enough times, and even if you have won the argument you have lost the war, and the other person just moves on.

Pope Francis perhaps brought me back a little.
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THIS
 
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