I am a Protestant who wants an honest answer

[Ozzie]

Wildgraywolf:

The sinner who, by faith, looks to the risen Christ, is the same as the Israelite who, though bitten, by faith looked to the bronze serpent lifted up in the wilderness and lived (Jn. 3:14-18; cf. Num. 21).

I fully agree! And based on that text, the one who, by faith, looks to Christ receives ETERNAL life (read Jn. 3:14-15).

If one believes one acts accordingly. Justification comes by faith and works together. If one accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior (faith) then they must die to their old works.

Certainly “works” will follow true faith, but “justification” is not a result of those works. Contrary to what the RC trys to read into what James states regarding faith and “works.” But God’s word is very clear that “justification” is a FREE GIFT, by God’s GRACE, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus (the “work” He accomplished on the cross).

“…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:23-24).

“Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor (i.e., grace), but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness. Just as David also speaks of the blessing upon the man TO whom God reckons righteousness APART FROM WORKS” (Rom. 4:4-6).

The above verses totally debunk the RC idea of "progressive justification, " which states that the divine grace that justifies by faith is a “gratia sufficiens” which then turns into a “gratia co-operans” whereby a man co-operates to prepare himself for justification by: (1) a believing acceptance of the Word of God (according to RC doctrine); (2) an insight into one’s sinful condition; (3) hope in the mercy of God (rather than accepting once for all God’s infinite mercy in Christ); (4) the beginning of love to God; (5) an abhorrence of sin; (6) a resolve to obey the commandments of God; and (7) a desire for baptism. But, alas, only to possibly lose it all by an unconfessed “mortal sin.”

But instead, according to God’s written Word, the one who believes in the Person and work of Jesus Christ is completely and perfectly, at the time of personal belief, justified as a GIFT through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus (i.e., the cross). Not by any on-going, co-operative efforts on the believer’s his part. God Himself justifies the UNGODLY (not the "Godly), his FAITH being “reckoned as righteousness” “A righteousness that COMES FROM GOD on the BASIS OF FAITH” (Phil. 3:9; see Rom. 3:26).

 

[Ozzie]

SPOKENWORD:

As long as I am in the state of Gods grace,I know that I am going to heaven. Thank God for the cross where I can die to sin dailey.

Define “the state of God’s grace” and where you find this phrase or concept in the N.T.

Does your wording, *“As long as I am in the state of God’s grace,” *infer that you can volitionally lose that “state” of grace? If so, how? Can you know now, for sure, if you are in or out of that “state of grace?” If so, how?

 

[Ozzie]

Pax:

There is much more to an exegetical study of scripture “than simply reading it and allowing it to speak for itself.”

Actually there isn’t more than that humanly speaking. But one must be “born again,” i.e., regenerated by the Holy Spirit who illuminates His Word to the believer (1 Cor. 3:12; cf. vs. 14).

This sort of thinking explains why there are so many varied ideas on the meaning of scripture and doctrine.

Actually, it’s because they don’t execute an exegetical study of the Scriptures that there are varied ideas and false doctrines.

I dare say, Ozzie, that you are proving that your own criticism fits you to a “T.” It is your Protestant mentors that have taught you this heresy, just as it is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church [along with Paul and James] that have taught me that the bible teaches that we are not saved by “faith alone.”

Not quite, my friend. I refer to those literary works in my studies, but I do not brand those authors *“infallible.” *They are not my personal “Magesterium.”

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Ozzie:

Define “the state of God’s grace” and where you find this phrase or concept in the N.T.

Does your wording, *“As long as I am in the state of God’s grace,” *infer that you can volitionally lose that “state” of grace? If so, how? Can you know now, for sure, if you are in or out of that “state of grace?” If so, how?

My interpretation of being in the state of grace is nice and simple. Am I right with God?. Am I free from sin at this moment?.

 

[Cubby]

I have a thought to share; Judas said yes to Christ and was committed to following Christ. If he had died before betraying Jesus I feel like he would be in heaven. He said yes to Jesus and he followed Jesus, he must have been saved! But, because of his own actions he lost that salvation. God promises never to leave us or forsake us, but what if we choose to leave Him and never return? One thing that I can be sure of, If I walk in the light as he is in the light then I have fellowship with Him and His blood covers my sins. That’s a big “IF”. My belief is that IF we have had the opportunity to be baptized and if we have been baptized and if we are walking in the light, then we’re saved - regardless of what church you may be worshipping in. But here’s the kicker: Why stop there? Why have a relationship with Christ on a protestant level? When we’re free to have that relationship on a catholic level? I came from the Nazarene church where I enjoyed the blessings of baptism and salvation, into the Catholic church where I now enjoy the experience of worshipping God in the fullness of the faith. What a joy!

Peace.

 

[Greg_McPherran]

John 6:51 the bread
Luke 22:19 he took the bread

John 6:51 that I will give
Luke 22:19 gave it to them

John 6:51 is my flesh
Luke 22:19 is my body

John 6:51 for the life of the world
Luke 22:19 for you

“Truly, truly, I say to you he who believes HAS eternal life” (6:47).

But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.

Mark 14:18 …“Amen, I say to you, one of you will ***betray ***me, one who is eating with me.”

**Luke 22:19 **Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me.”
**Luke 22:19 **"And yet behold, the hand of the one who is to betray me is with me on the table;

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us…
John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."

John 6:63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
John 3:6 “What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.”

**John 6:51 **I am the living bread that **came down from heaven;
**John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us…
John 3:6 “What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.”
John 6:63It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

**John 6:58 **…whoever eats this bread will live forever
John 6:63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

John 6:58 …whoever eats this bread will live forever
John 6:51 the bread that I will give is my flesh** for the life of the world."
John 3:6 “What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.”
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us…

**John 3:6 **…born of flesh is flesh…
John 3:6 …born of spirit…
John 1:14 …became flesh…

Greg

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Ozzie:

The “bread” that He would give “for the life of the world” is His body on the cross (6:51).

“the flesh profits nothing” cannot refer to Jesus’ flesh - true?

Then what does “the flesh profits nothing” refer to?

It refers to flesh born of flesh (John 3:6). But Jesus’ flesh is not flesh born of flesh.

Your communion is not the flesh of Jesus come down from heaven therefore your communion is “flesh born of flesh” that is “the flesh profits nothing”. Our communion is “flesh born of spirit”

Since “the flesh profits nothing”, your communion profits nothing.

Can you respond to these points?

Greg

 

[Ozzie]

Cubby:

I have a thought to share; Judas said yes to Christ and was committed to following Christ. If he had died before betraying Jesus I feel like he would be in heaven. He said yes to Jesus and he followed Jesus, he must have been saved!

Simply following after Jesus will not save anyone. Jesus had many disciples who followed Him until He said something they could not handle and they left (Jn. 6:66). It is those who believe in Him that are saved. As for Judas, Jesus Himself calls him “a devil” even before Judas betrayed Him to the religious leaders: “Did I myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil? Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him” (Jn. 6:71). No, Judas was never saved. In fact, from the beginning he pilfered money from the money money donated to support Christ’s earthly ministry (Jn. 12:6).

Judas hoped that Jesus might be the one who would deliver national Israel from Roman dominion. He never truly BELIEVED in Christ as the other eleven did (Jn. 6:69). He followed Jesus only for political goals and aspirations. He betrayed Him because he eventually came to recognized that Jesus was not going to produce the political results he hoped for. Satan cannot enter into a saved person, but this is exactly what happened to Judas (Lk. 22:3).

The salvation you describe in your post is a “works” salvation and circumvents the cross.

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Greg_McPherran:

Can you respond to these points?

No response?

Matthew 23:12 “Whoever exalts himself will be humbled; but whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”

I invite you to contact a parish near you. You will be welcomed!

Greg

 

[Pax]

Ozzie:

First of all, Paul is in no way stating that his “sufferings” are expiatory. Also, the work that Jesus Christ accomplished and finished on the cross was a result of His sacrificial work, i.e., the shedding of His blood, not his suffering: Propitiation (Rom. 3:25), Redemption (1Pet. 1:18-19), Reconciliation (Rom. 5:9-10). “He was pierced through for our transgressions” (Is. 53:5). Paul’s sufferings which he endured on his missionary journeys can’t add to Christ’s work on the cross, they don’t qualify. Only Christ alone could accomplish that work, He being the unblemished “Lamb of God.” Paul in no sense of the word could be considered a co-redeemer (no mere man or woman could - no, not even Mary).

When Jesus stopped Paul on the Damascus road to be His chosen vessel to take the word of reconciliation to the Gentiles, He is recorded saying, “for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake” (Acts 9:16). Christ had to suffer greatly at the hands of men before He wrought redemption through the cross. In a mystical way Christ also suffered through Paul when taking the message of Christ’s redemptive work on the cross to the Gentiles (example, Acts 9:4-5). But Paul’s sufferings experienced on his missionary journeys are not in any way expiatory, and certainly not an extension of Christ’s finished work on the cross. Such a concept is considered blasphemous.

Sorry Ozzie, but this is not exegesis. You are involved in “eisegesis” and have superimposed your own doctrinal predisposition over the text. While I have not said that Paul is providing redemption, I contend that you have in no way addressed how it is that Paul claims “…in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the Church.” There is no special mystical way as you’ve described that can explain the statement. Please try again if you will, but you cannot explain this text away. It in no way fits your doctrines. Paul’s statement is clear and is not mystical or symbolic. If it were he would have explained it accordingly.

 

[George2]

I don’t know if you are going to heaven and I hope no one has taught you that we teach that non-Catholic Christians and non-Christians are automatically damned. That is not authentic Catholic teaching.

The Catholic Church’s teaching on salvation is summarized in its latest catechism which luckily is now free online or about $12.00 from Amazon.com online at www.vatican.va follow links to English/Bible/Catechism.

cheers, George

 

[Pax]

Ozzie:

Simply following after Jesus will not save anyone. Jesus had many disciples who followed Him until He said something they could not handle and they left (Jn. 6:66). It is those who believe in Him that are saved. As for Judas, Jesus Himself calls him “a devil” even before Judas betrayed Him to the religious leaders: "Did I myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil? Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him" (Jn. 6:71). No, Judas was never saved. In fact, from the beginning he pilfered money from the money money donated to support Christ’s earthly ministry (Jn. 12:6).

Judas hoped that Jesus might be the one who would deliver national Israel from Roman dominion. He never truly BELIEVED in Christ as the other eleven did (Jn. 6:69). He followed Jesus only for political goals and aspirations. He betrayed Him because he eventually came to recognized that Jesus was not going to produce the political results he hoped for. Satan cannot enter into a saved person, but this is exactly what happened to Judas (Lk. 22:3).

The salvation you describe in your post is a “works” salvation and circumvents the cross.

I find it interesting that you cite John 6:66 when the disciples left Jesus. They knew what he was talking about when he said that they would have to eat His flesh and drink His blood to have life within them. That is the reason they no longer walked with Him. Judas disbelieved also but He was hypocritical and stayed with Jesus. You also have a choice to make. Do you want to believe Jesus or not? You claim he was speaking symbolically, but this is not true. If He was speaking symbolically, He would not have let the disciples leave if they believed He was speaking literally. He would have explained that He was speaking symbolically so they would not leave because of a misunderstanding. Moreover, Jesus says in the passage that the flesh He will give them to eat and the blood that He will give them to drink is that same flesh and blood that He would offer up upon the cross[6:51]. Now if the flesh and blood that He was to offer as food is symbolic then the flesh and blood upon the cross is also symbolic. Besides scripture never uses the word symbolic in the text.

Protestants appeal to John 6:63 which says, " It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life." They believe that this verse proves that Jesus was speaking symbolically. This is again, eisegesis and not exegesis. No where in scripture does the word “spirit” mean “symbolic.” In this verse Jesus is explaining why those that left can’t appreciate what He just told them. They are thinking in the flesh. The New Living Translation of the Bible (non-Catholic) translates this verse as follows: “It is the Spirit who gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” Note the verse is saying that human effort to believe and understand are useless but the power of the Holy Spirit is what counts. It is not symbolic speach. Jesus meant what he said. There is much more contained in John 6 that a careful “exegesis” reveals. If you are up to it, I can provide you with much more. This thread is probably not the best place for it, but if need be we can handle it here.

 

[Pax]

Ozzie:

Simply following after Jesus will not save anyone. Jesus had many disciples who followed Him until He said something they could not handle and they left (Jn. 6:66). It is those who believe in Him that are saved. As for Judas, Jesus Himself calls him “a devil” even before Judas betrayed Him to the religious leaders: "Did I myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil? Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him" (Jn. 6:71). No, Judas was never saved. In fact, from the beginning he pilfered money from the money money donated to support Christ’s earthly ministry (Jn. 12:6).

Judas hoped that Jesus might be the one who would deliver national Israel from Roman dominion. He never truly BELIEVED in Christ as the other eleven did (Jn. 6:69). He followed Jesus only for political goals and aspirations. He betrayed Him because he eventually came to recognized that Jesus was not going to produce the political results he hoped for. Satan cannot enter into a saved person, but this is exactly what happened to Judas (Lk. 22:3).

The salvation you describe in your post is a “works” salvation and circumvents the cross.

Ozzie,

You are both right and wrong about Judas. Judas was chosen by Christ. By your own doctrine of faith alone you run head long into a contradiction with Judas Iscariot. Please note, your teaching is that belief/faith is what saves you and that “once you are saved you are always saved.” Now I’m going to give you the scriptures about Judas that contradict this errant doctrine. Cubby touched on this correctly but didn’t give you the scriptural citations you need.

In John 2 we read about the marriage feast of Cana. After Jesus works the miracle of turning water into wine we read in John 2:11, “This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed in him.” Now the disciples always refers to the twelve plus any others that might believe in the Lord. Judas believed and was therefore in a state of justification and friendship with God/Jesus. That is where you have a problem, because you are right when it comes to Judas falling away in John 6.

You cannot claim that this does not apply to Judas because Jesus had not yet died on the cross; please remember that all of the ancient Jews that were saved were done so by anticipation of Jesus sacrifice. The same anticipation would apply to Judas. Judas was in an initial state of justification but he later turned away from Jesus, even to the point of betraying him. This final act on Judas part is also interesting in that he feels remorseful enough to go back to the Elders to return the thirty pieces of silver but he does not share the same type of repentence that Peter has after he denies Jesus three times. Moreover, Jesus even says to Peter after His prophecy of the denial, “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.”[Luke 22:31-32]
Notice that Jesus prayed that Simon’s faith would not fail and that Satan would therefore not be able to sift him like wheat. In other words, a persons faith can fail and they can go to hell. Jesus knows that Peter’s faith will fail temporarily and that is why Jesus says,"…**when you return ** strengthen your brothers."

“Once saved always Saved” and salvation by faith alone are not stated in the bible and scripture clearly contradicts both teachings. Depending on how long this thread runs, I will eventually get the more than sixty-six verses of scripture in my posts that contradict this teaching.

 

[Pax]

kellyb32:

I am a revert who grew up Catholic who left the faith to enter the protestant fundamentalist sola scriptura/sola fide camp. I was trying to get closer to Christ in my walk, and I was taught that all I needed to do was say the sinners prayer and I would be saved.

But like you I had a nagging emptiness that something was missing. My husband who grew up in a fundamentalist anti-catholic home was the first one to suggest to me 2 years ago that we visit the RC church down the street from our house. We’ve never left. After much prayer and study, we both entered the Church with our 3 children this past Holy Saturday.

We now feel complete as well thanks to the Holy Spirit bringing us into the fullness of the Catholic Faith.

One thing I don’t miss from attending the protestant services faithfully is judging those who don’t worship the way we did and being judged by fellow church goers who felt that if you didn’t eat, sleep, talk, think or live the bible, you were backslidden and in need of repentance for your laziness in those things that were required of a Christian.

God bless you.

Kelley,

What a joy it is to hear your story. The Lord is so gentle and loving. He always leads us home to the Father’s house.

 

[Katholikos]

Ozzie wrote:

. . . one must be “born again,” i.e., regenerated by the Holy Spirit who illuminates His Word to the believer (1 Cor. 3:12; cf. vs. 14).

Protestant misinterpretations of John 3:5 notwithstanding, every baptized Christian has been “born again.”

If God’s Word were illuminated for every believer, or even only for those who by your (incorrect) definition had been “born again,” how do you account for the myraid of interpretations?

The only correct way to understand the Scriptures is to know the meaning the sacred writers intended to convey to their reader(s) at the time they were writing. The relevant question is: What did the first Christians believe, who were instructed by the very lips of the apostles before, during, and after the time the writings later called the New Testament were being produced by the early Church?

The Church did not come out of the Bible; rather, the Bible came out of the Church. The history of Christianity is the history of the Catholic Church.

St. Paul was referring to Purgatory when he wrote 1 Cor 3:10-15.

Peace be to you and to all who post at Catholic Answers.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[Ozzie]

Katholikos:

If God’s Word were illuminated for every believer, or even only for those who by your (incorrect) definition had been “born again,” how do you account for the myraid of interpretations?

By reading into the passages their own religious traditions or presuppositions.

The only correct way to understand the Scriptures is to know the meaning the sacred writers intended to convey to their reader(s) at the time they were writing. The relevant question is: What did the first Christians believe, who were instructed by the very lips of the apostles before, during, and after the time the writings later called the New Testament were being produced by the early Church?

With all due respect, this is a ridiculous statement. You have no idea what ALL the first Christians believed, and you’re assuming they were all without error in their beliefs. In your own way you’re elevating them all to the office of Apostle. My goodness man, there were false doctrine being propagated in the Church even in Apostolic times. Not even the early writers, who touched the lives of the Apostles, wrote on all the doctrines in the N.T. Plus, their writings were not divinely inspired. Only the Scriptures have that authority and inerrancy. The Scriptures were written so that subsequent generations of believers would know exactly what to believe regarding faith and practice. That’s why an exegetical study of the Scriptures is important, even for those born again by the Spirit. The Holy Spirit regenerates the believer so he can understand the things freely given to us by God (1Cor. 1:12), but the believer himself must still accurately handle the Word of God (2 Tim. 2:15).

The Church did not come out of the Bible; rather, the Bible came out of the Church. The history of Christianity is the history of the Catholic Church.

The Bible was authored by the Holy Spirit through men whom the Holy Spirit chose to write through. It was wirtten FOR the Church, by the Holy Spirit through chosen men. Yes, I agree, the history of Christianity is the history of the “Catholic” Church; the “historic” Catholic Church, not restricted to the Roman Church. Read the Book of Acts.

St. Paul was referring to Purgatory when he wrote 1 Cor 3:10-15.

There is nothing “cleansing” or “purging” about the fire revealed in these passages. It is a “revealing” fire (judgment) which reveals the “quality” of a man’s work. It is about “rewards” and loss of “rewards.” It’s not even remotely about the extrabiblical idea of “Purgatory.” You see, you’re reading your tradition into Scripture. You’re not accurately handling the Word of truth, which is your respnsibility.

 

[MariaG]

Yes, Catholic do read our Traditions into Scripture. But those traditions have been around since the time of the Apostles. The apostles “read” the same thing.

 

[Pax]

Ozzie:

There is nothing “cleansing” or “purging” about the fire revealed in these passages. It is a “revealing” fire (judgment) which reveals the “quality” of a man’s work. It is about “rewards” and loss of “rewards.” It’s not even remotely about the extrabiblical idea of “Purgatory.” You see, you’re reading your tradition into Scripture. You’re not accurately handling the Word of truth, which is your respnsibility.

Ozzie,

Your last statement is merely your opinion and from our point of view is completely misguided. You claim that we are simply reading our tradition into scripture. This same accusation can be leveled at you on this very same passage of scripture. In fact you offer a very slanted interpretation to oppose purgatory. Please note that in verse 3:13 Paul points out that “each man’s work will be manifest; for the Day will disclose it,” This phrasing in scripture refers to the day when someone dies. Then notice how the persons work is tested with “fire.” Verses 14-15 say, “If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” Now please be aware that the some of the man’s work will not survive and some of his work will survive. He may suffer loss. That which is burned away(purged) is what we call purgatory “though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” This is the perfect definition of purgatory (our final sanctification), but there is much more to go with this verse.

cont. on next post

 

[Pax]

cont. from prior post

So let’s put all the appropriate scripture verses together to help you see the relationship.

2 Sam 12:13-18
David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the Lord, the child that is born to you shall die.” Then Nathan went to his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and it became sick. David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in and lay all night upon the ground. And the elders of his house stood beside him, to raise him from the ground; but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. On the seventh day the child died.
There is punishment for Sin even after the sin has been forgiven

Revelation 21:27
But nothing unclean shall enter it,
Nothing unclean will enter heaven

Matthew 5:48
You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Because nothing unclean will enter heaven

Hebrews 12:22-23
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
There is a way that the souls of just men are made perfect

1 Corinthians 3:13-15
each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
After death every man’s work will be tested by fire and he will suffer loss even though he has been saved.

Matthew 12:32
And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
This implies forgiveness of sin or its punishment after death in the age to come.

cont. on next post

 

[Pax]

cont. from prior post

Matthew 18:23-35
“Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents; and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, ‘Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.’ And out of pity for him the lord of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. But that same servant, as he went out, came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and seizing him by the throat he said, ‘Pay what you owe.’ So his fellow servant fell down and besought him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you.’ He refused and went and put him in prison till he should pay the debt.
When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their lord all that had taken place. Then his lord summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you besought me; and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you? 'And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”
Where can you go after death that is like jail until you have paid all your debt? In heaven there is no need forgiveness. In hell there is no forgiveness.

Revelation 20:12-15
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death,