I am an atheist thread 3

[_A]

A, have you read anything by Dr. Jean Vanier? He really gives a different perspective on disabilities and human worth. You might want to start with the book “Becoming Human”. “The Broken Body” is also very thought-provoking.

I might look that up, but it does nothing to answer why your god heals all kinds of illness (according to your myths) but never an amputee.
Is it because he hates them?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Wow, we have really covered a lot of subjects on the last 2 threads. I would like to start again and say that you have all been very generous with your time. Thanks and keep it up!

This sounds like the “Sparticus” thread!

You know, where the real Sparticus stands up and shouts, “I’m Sparticus!”, and then Tony Curtis stands up and shouts, “I’m Sparticus!”, and then the midget in the roman leather tunic stands up and shouts, “I’m Sparticus!” in a REALLY high voice, and then everyone is on their feet shouting and being nailed to large bits of wood stuck in the ground!?

No, I’M SPARTICUS!! A is just a poser!

 

[_A]

That’s enough I don’t think anyone even cares anymore. If you can’t look at facts then there is no convincing you.

Thats nice of you to say, but I think I would rather let ‘anyone’ speak for themselves.
I will assume that you want me to ignore you now.

 

[psyche23]

Originally Posted by A
Look at all the corruption among priests. Do you have some reason to expect that it is any different in the upper echelons?
Priests raping children are evidence enough for me that they are not doing their job properly. Why do you think that they are ‘good enough’? Is it their track record, or what church doctrine tells you?

Come on A, was that really necessary??? They’re just human like the rest of us. I find that blanket statement really insulting. I wasn’t there for the full conversation, and don’t really plan on going through however many pages to find it, but seriously… can you please at least try to be respectful?..

 

[holdencaulfield]

Because with that much money at stake, the ‘officers’ of the church have an awful lot to lose if they don’t keep the story believable. Look at all the corruption among priests. Do you have some reason to expect that it is any different in the upper echelons?
Priests raping children are evidence enough for me that they are not doing their job properly. Why do you think that they are ‘good enough’?

What they did is terrible. And people will continue to use that to this day against the Church. Don’t act like the Church condones this. The Church says this is a terrible thing that will lead you to eternal damnation. Let’s look at all the wonderful examples of atheists that we have today to look towards.

Charles Darwin - By using bad science he tried to convince the people of the world that they are worthless.

Joesph Stalin - Killed over 8 million people.

Adolph Hitler - Killed around 7 million people.

Voltaire - Was extremely annoying and wrote bad books

Those are the examples that I can think of right now, but believe me I could go on.

 

[_A]

I know this was partly covered before, but here goes.

As was mentioned earlier, abstention from meat is a form of sacrifice of something we enjoy. The reason meat was chosen is because it was one of the main components of meals in many cultures, and usually the most expensive part.

Friday has traditionally been a day of penance for the Church’s faithful, as a universal honoring and remembrance of Christ’s passion and crucifixion on the first Good Friday.

Over time, the practice of not eating meat on Fridays has declined in some countries. According to Canon Law (1250), however, the significance of Friday as a day of penance and sacrifice has not been diminished at all, and faithful Catholics are to practice some type of abstention on Fridays. This is a form of spiritual discipline and a way of unifying the Church’s faithful.

Thanks, I didn’t know it had such a history.
I wonder why partying so much on Friday’s is a rebel-response to this. (In my culture, Friday night is anything but penance and sacrifice - the bars do their best business)

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

A;3240641]Independant unbiased confirmation of my observations is usually enough for me, depending on the circumstances.

So nothing outside of your own senses.
That is how I know that God is real. That the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob is the The True God.

Now, once again…
I am glad that you have hinted at the importance you give to environmental issues. Would you care to say if you would ruin a part of this world, say, about two square meters, to do a good that would get you into your gods’ good grace?

Apart for God telling to to Do It I would say no. Then again we would have to establish what it means to ruin. I also do nothing just to get into Gods good graces. I do out of love and desire to be
of service to the Lord.

 

[_A]

It is obvious that you have not hung out with many priests in your lifetime, A. Among the 15+ priests I have known so far, none of them raped a child, or an adult, for that matter. On the contrary, I have met some very humble, holy, kind, caring, generous and wise priests. It is a pity that you seem to feel justified in painting a whole group of people with the same brush. You are missing out on some great friendships.

I don’t, and (partly thanks to this group here) I have been developing a friendship with a christian preacher who is beginning a church here. Knowing 16 or so priests who did not rape kids is not the point. The point is that priest are obviously corrupt sometimes.
The few horrible examples of child raping priests are simply proof that they are not always believable.

 

[CTA1967]

I might look that up, but it does nothing to answer why your god heals all kinds of illness (according to your myths) but never an amputee.
Is it because he hates them?

According to our “myths”, our God healed an amputee through St. Anthony: saintanthonyofpadua.net/portale/santantonio/miracoli/santo/mirac4.asp

 

[Armor_of_God]

Yes!

Thanks for the well wishes.

Sure. Drop me a private message sometime, and I’ll give you the rundown (schedule permitting).

Laptop battery is about to crash, so that’s about all for tonight.

God bless!

Thanks!

I understand about the family tension bit, too - from the other side. Very painful.
(Family members who have left the Faith for a very different faith.)

 

[_A]

Originally Posted by A
Look at all the corruption among priests. Do you have some reason to expect that it is any different in the upper echelons?
Priests raping children are evidence enough for me that they are not doing their job properly. Why do you think that they are ‘good enough’? Is it their track record, or what church doctrine tells you?

Come on A, was that really necessary??? They’re just human like the rest of us. I find that blanket statement really insulting. I wasn’t there for the full conversation, and don’t really plan on going through however many pages to find it, but seriously… can you please at least try to be respectful?..

I don’t respect the notion that the priest class is somehow better than anyone other group of people. I mentioned the most recognizeable corruption to underscore that.

 

[_A]

What they did is terrible. And people will continue to use that to this day against the Church. Don’t act like the Church condones this. The Church says this is a terrible thing that will lead you to eternal damnation. Let’s look at all the wonderful examples of atheists that we have today to look towards.

Charles Darwin - By using bad science he tried to convince the people of the world that they are worthless.

Joesph Stalin - Killed over 8 million people.

Adolph Hitler - Killed around 7 million people.

Voltaire - Was extremely annoying and wrote bad books

Those are the examples that I can think of right now, but believe me I could go on.

I still don’t see a reason to stop ignoring you.

 

[_A]

According to our “myths”, our God healed an amputee through St. Anthony: saintanthonyofpadua.net/portale/santantonio/miracoli/santo/mirac4.asp

With the story alone, it has all the veracity of a fairy tale. Is there anything to this other than a story?

 

[holdencaulfield]

I still don’t see a reason to stop ignoring you.

?

 

[_A]

?

See this post.

 

[psyche23]

Thanks, I didn’t know it had such a history.
I wonder why partying so much on Friday’s is a rebel-response to this. (In my culture, Friday night is anything but penance and sacrifice - the bars do their best business)

There are a lot of things that got lost when Vatican II came out. It was a really wonderful thing, don’t get me wrong, but it came with a lot of confusion at the same time. That and the 60’s brought a sense of superficial love not just in the secular sense, but also in religious schools. Teaching and history that had been drilled into Catholics before got lost in the “let’s be inclusive and unifying by learning all about other religions”. That would be fine in itself, but it brought the focus away from why we teach what we teach. My generation seems to be trying to get back into learning (that being young adults). Hope that might explain it a bit… For whatever it’s worth.

 

[_A]

There are a lot of things that got lost when Vatican II came out. It was a really wonderful thing, don’t get me wrong, but it came with a lot of confusion at the same time. That and the 60’s brought a sense of superficial love not just in the secular sense, but also in religious schools. Teaching and history that had been drilled into Catholics before got lost in the “let’s be inclusive and unifying by learning all about other religions”. That would be fine in itself, but it brought the focus away from why we teach what we teach. My generation seems to be trying to get back into learning (that being young adults). Hope that might explain it a bit… For whatever it’s worth.

Thanks, it does.

 

[lkddav]

Over half now are though. The Catholic Church alone has 1.2 Billion where 2000 years ago there were no Christians. ( Not by my stats)

That is true but not all people know of Christ.( The planet knows of christians, christianity has had two thousand years to spread the word. Why isn’t everyone christian, you say the evidence is there.)

People know the law and ramifications of murdering somone but they still do it. ( Apparently they haven’t seen your evidence.)

People do not have the fullness of faith–truth— ( In other words two thirds of the planet are not accepting your evidence.)

People think they are gods and will never admit someone is greater than they in part like Lucifer. ( Alot of people spend life dealing with reality.)

if Jesus appeared in the sky before the whole World someone like A if asleep and did not see it would say it is not true. For testimony,miracles, eyewitness accounts, Scientific conclussions, courts, historical accounts, or the ability himself to go and see these actual miracles in person are not good enough for him to have belief. ( Myself and four billion others on this planet are the same way. With enough evidence we will believe. I guess we just don’t get it. Right. )

While atheism has absolutely no evidence, facts, or proofs. ( We are not claiming anything.)

For these are not evidence to him. However these evidences is how we acquire facts. ( if the evidence was there, everyone would be christians.)

By the way Buddah, Mohammed, etc… are not gods and do not claim to be.( Buddist shouldn’t exist, Islam shouldn’t exist. If you are right and the evidence is that strong. Everyone should be christians like you. Correct?)

The 3 main Religions of the world are all derived from God the Father.

Jews, Christians, and Islam ( It’s odd that the god of islam is telling his people to kill you, infidel.)

Jews and Islam by the way do not deny Jesus just that He was not the Son of God–the Messiah ( If the bible were true and the evidence was there. They would believe as you do that the messiah was jesus. But they don’t.)

To which they are still waiting for.( A long wait they have.)

God the Father has never shown Himslf to these and if you read the texts of these two Religions. (rationalizing a non existant god.)

For right now these two have no way to gain entry into Heaven without Allah and the Messiah.

They have no path for the rift between God and man has yet to be repaired.

( sigh…)

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Armor_of_God]

According to our “myths”, our God healed an amputee through St. Anthony: saintanthonyofpadua.net/portale/santantonio/miracoli/santo/mirac4.asp

How about on the Mount of Olives, when Jesus healed the ear that had been cut off of the slave of the high priest who was persecuting him, just before he was seized and taken away to be mocked, beaten, and crucified?

“While he was still speaking, suddenly a crowd came, and the one called Judas, one of the twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him; but Jesus said to him, “Judas, is it with a kiss that you are betraying the Son of Man?” When those who were around him saw what was coming, they asked, “Lord, should we strike with the sword?” Then one of them struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his right ear. But Jesus said, “No more of this!” And he touched his ear and healed him.”
(Luke 22: 47-51)

 

[psyche23]

I don’t, and (partly thanks to this group here) I have been developing a friendship with a christian preacher who is beginning a church here. Knowing 16 or so priests who did not rape kids is not the point. The point is that priest are obviously corrupt sometimes.
The few horrible examples of child raping priests are simply proof that they are not always believable.

What do you mean by believable? If you mean the in regards to faith and morals, they are supposed to get this from the Pope who is infallible in regards to faith and morals alone. Even the Pope sins obviously. The Pope and all prists are simply human and make mistakes. But if they are acting in accordance with church teaching, then yes, they are believable.

I’m glad to hear you’re talking with a preacher. If only to seek answers to your questions. Plus, they make for some pretty amazing friends. If you want Catholic teaching, priests are preferable unless you go straight into the encyclicals or catechism. You can find those on the web…