I am an atheist thread 3

[_A]

I think that you have nothing better to do than to boast about your non-beliefs here and in which you try to break the people here that truly love Christ…not gonna happen.
Again (Mother of God), the atheist who died and came back to tell about it IS A PROTESTANT MINISTER. When did I show that my religion was correct as I spoke about this righteous man?

You are correct. I thought you were making the point that because he had changed to catholicism, that it proved it right. If he is such good evidence of the afterlife, why have you not joined his faith?

 

[_A]

Yes but testimonial evidence must be logical and stand up to the test of logic and Islam does not.

I don’t think you understand what ‘testimonial evidence’ means, do you?

 

[_A]

These Moslems died for a belief in what they were told not in what they claimed to have seen.

testing eyewitness testimony. They preeched to have seen Jesus resurrected, were tortured,stoned, and crucified for this testimony and did not refrain from this testimony under these conditions.

Big difference

Each was willing to die for their beliefs. Not as much difference as you suggest.

 

[c659smith]

So when there are more members of Islam will you convert?

your quote was there were more Moslems than Christians so there was more testimony. That statement was proven false.

Your quote below.

Originally Posted by A
There are people who also offer testimonial evidence that Islam is the one true faith. There are more of them than there are Catholics. They therefore have more testimony

 

[_A]

your quote was there were more Moslems than Christians so there was more testimony. That statement was proven false.

Your quote below.

Originally Posted by A
There are people who also offer testimonial evidence that Islam is the one true faith. There are more of them than there are Catholics. They therefore have more testimony

If your testimonial evidence is worth anything, so is theirs, and THAT was my point.
Someone saying that they believe their god is true does not mean that they are offering evidence of a god, it is only evidence of their feelings.

 

[c659smith]

Each was willing to die for their beliefs. Not as much difference as you suggest.

The Apostles Deaths is a big difference for eyewitness testimony that 10 men died through torture, stoning, beheading,and crucification professing what they saw and that being Jesus rose from the dead and not renouncing even under these types of conditions in any court would be considered as reliable evidence. To attempt to refute this evidence by any means would be illogical.

For 10 men hallucenating at the same time is illogical and then to add even more to this being illogical that they hallucenated the same hallucenation.

To refute the Apostles did not exist then leaves no acceptable reason, (illogical) for Christianity to form and it,s massive growth under even harsher conditions the next 300 years.

The 10 Moslems committed suicide (murder) for a God that gave them a commandment. Thou shall not murder.

The Apostles did not murder but were murdered for what they saw.

I think your correlation is sick.

 

[c659smith]

If your testimonial evidence is worth anything, so is theirs, and THAT was my point.
Someone saying that they believe their god is true does not mean that they are offering evidence of a god, it is only evidence of their feelings.

But I have given you evidence of Jesus and Him being God.

Islam cannot.

First because it is based upon breaking one of Gods commandments.

“Thou shall not murder”

For to murder in the name of God is illogical.

 

[_A]

But I have given you evidence of Jesus and Him being God.

You haven’t provided enough evidence for me to believe.

Islam cannot.

They do just as good a job as you do. Why pick yours over theirs?

First because it is based upon breaking one of Gods commandments.

“Thou shall not murder”

For to murder in the name of God is illogical.

So when your god killed all the men and animals on earth with a worldwide flood in a fit of ire, he was being illogical. Thank you for pointing that out for me.

 

[psyche23]

I just can’t help it…

WHERE’S THE LOVE???

THE RESPECT???

This thread really seems to have gone downhill. There are some good discussions, but anyone joining in right now would think people on both sides here were pretty hot-headed…

time for a breather??? :grouphug:

 

[c659smith]

You haven’t provided enough evidence for me to believe. They do just as good a job as you do. Why pick yours over theirs?So when your god killed all the men and animals on earth with a worldwide flood in a fit of ire, he was being illogical. Thank you for pointing that out for me.

Again you are not being logical. I have given much in this thread more than most to show that evidence is there, If the evidence is 1/10 of a percent then I have done enough to show that Atheism is not logical. For if one believes in Jesus Christ and loves Him with your whole heart, mind, and soul and his belief is correct then he gains everlasting life. If you are right than the believer has lost nothing.

If an atheist is wrong he has lost everything. If he is right he has gained nothing.

It is self pride that guides an atheists heart as when self pride is stripped away ones heart and mind are open. He can admit there is one greater than him. When a person without self pride does good works for others he does so without motive as there is nothing to reward or boast.

In Islam there is no promise and there is no path to Allah. They follow the path to that of an alleged Prophet not God, How many prayers must they say and how many converts must they have? How can a prophet who leads them to Allah do so by committing murders breaking God’s commandment, “Thou shall not murder”? Again I say to kill in the name of God is illogical. No they do not do as good a job as Catholics in proving their case. Their case is lost from the beginning with Mohamed

For in reality I have no need to prove anything as the proof is there if one looks. Christ when he became Man gave that proof and continues through miracles or as you may say the supernatural or the unexplained.

I repeat because you do not comment on the evidence or at least state it is logical and if not why or never the less the merits on it’s basis for being evidence at least in the past 24 hours.

You honestly cannot compare suicide murders are the same as the Apostles nor do you admit you were wrong in stating such.

Again you go from new testament back to Old testament and are all over the bible when debating your argument and need to stick to one area and settle that area to prove or disprove it as evidence.

I have stated in my previous thread that God is the creator and as such has the right to condemn especially evil. It is His right for all life is His to do with as He wishes, He is the Great I Am.

You are correct with proving the Old Testament (the old covenant)and definitely for the most part takes faith.

But with the new testament (new covenant)there is truth and evidence. You may not like the evidence but it is there and is still with us. You may not be totally convinced by it but then again if the possibility is 1 % out of a 100% you as an atheist are taking a chance (bet) that makes no sense for the life you have here is short but eternity is forever.

I will say one thing though this thread has increased my faith further as in looking to evidence and seeing more and more of that evidence there is faith through truth.

 

[c659smith]

You haven’t provided enough evidence for me to believe. They do just as good a job as you do. Why pick yours over theirs?So when your god killed all the men and animals on earth with a worldwide flood in a fit of ire, he was being illogical. Thank you for pointing that out for me.

So when your god killed all the men and animals on earth with a worldwide flood in a fit of ire, he was being illogical. Thank you for pointing that out for me.

it is His right He is the creator and not man. God does not follow the Laws of Man but it is man that must follow the Laws of God.Besides can you prove it was a fit of ire or was He handing out justice.

 

[Armor_of_God]

What makes you think that something as valuable to you as suffering will be absent from heaven?

Scripture and Church teaching.

If it is so necessary, wouldn’t you be less human without it?

On this Earth, yes. In Heaven, no.

On the other hand, someone who *designs *suffering is pretty awful, in my opinion.

Depends on how you view suffering.

 

[Skavau]

c659smith:

again my point is one may die for a lie but 10 people would being dying and being killed for a lie at differnt times and places would be illogical.

If they believed it to be a lie, then it would be illogical. A lot of people are however, deluded.

c659smith:

Again I state that an Atheist is self centered and await proof that an Atheist in history, that remained an Atheist amounted to anything but for his or her own gains.

This makes no coherent sense. Although it is not the first thing that you have written that has this. Are you asking for non-selfish Atheists?

c659smith:

I have been in the military for 22 years and have not seen one so it definitely is not plenty. I think there has been one request in a federal grave yard for a non religious marker. Oh wait that was wicken.

Can you prove otherwise. I not only gave it thought I was in the Military.

Do you mean Wiccan?

Moreover, you’re appealing to testimonial evidence again.
c659smiths:

Again other than you seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, or touch what evidence would that be, But wait I have given you the evidence of seeing through the miracles of the Saints (incorruptible bodies) evaluated and verified scientifically by 3rd party scientists and in no other religions has this been done.

Your links were either broken or a catalogue (which I am not going through). They are also not conclusive evidence of anything.
Self-Righteousone:

Speaking of flying past one’s head completely… I never said that Howard Storm’s testimony is evidence of Catholicism, as he is a Protestant minister. I simply implied he was an avowed atheist, who died, went to hell and lived to tell about it.

Okay then.

But his experience is not any more evidence of the truth of anything any more than Omar Sharif is evidence of Islam.
Self-Righteousone:

Since someone once told you you were headstrong, did one ever tell you that for an 18 year old you are sort of obnoxious?

Since I am still waiting for you to show me where I have been either angry, wicked, arrogant and pompous - I will take this next accusation with a pinch of salt.

We all know that you are unable or refuse to back yourself up.
Self-Righteousone:

Catholicism is the number one religion in the world. every 6th person is a Roman Catholic…Muslims are right behind us but not quite there yet…do your homework.

That’s not true. Just 1.1 billion are Catholic.

There are over 1.5 Billion Muslims.
Self-Righteousone:

The post was not intended for you…and talk about gentlemenly behavior. You’ve come on here, bashed my religion as well as the others. I cannot believe that there are 127 pages to this thread that is full of nothings and nonsense on the part of all you atheists. I am done here. I will pray for your soul. Good luck seeing the face of Christ…then having it pass right by you.

Do not be a dishonest hypocrite.

It is you that have taken the opportunity to preach.

 

[Skavau]

c659smith:

If an atheist is wrong he has lost everything. If he is right he has gained nothing.

Pascal’s Wager is a completely flawed and dishonest argument. First of all, the assertion that there is more to gain by simply being a Christian over an Atheist or Agnostic has absolutely nothing to do with wherever Christianity is true or not. All you are doing is attempting to give a reason to believe based on fear. You are advocating that an individual should believe X because of Y. This is an appeal to consequences fallacy.

Do you also think it is honest to believe in something because if it is true then a God will damn you to hell for all eternity? I would only be believing through fear rather than sincerity. It also does not guarantee belief. If I came to you and said that you should become a Muslim because it is the safer option in the afterlife, would you be convinced of the truth claim of Islam? You likely would not.

The main flaw in Pascal’s Wagers basis comes regarding its truth value of proclaiming that believing in X has better results than Y. It is false. If the Fundamentalist Christians are correct then you will be burning in hell for all eternity. If various Islamic sects are correct then you might be burning in hell for all eternity. Anyone could end up being wrong and consequently anyone could end up burning in hell for all eternity for their beliefs. So the premise of the argument is rendered redundant.

c659smith:

It is self pride that guides an atheists heart as when self pride is stripped away ones heart and mind are open.

There we go again. You’re presuming to speak for over 1 billion of the global population again. Your bigotry, prejudice and generalisations speak more about your colossal ignorance on this subject much more than your intellect.

Let it be known you neither speak for me, or the majority of Catholics.

c659smith:

In Islam there is no promise and there is no path to Allah. They follow the path to that of an alleged Prophet not God, How many prayers must they say and how many converts must they have? How can a prophet who leads them to Allah do so by committing murders breaking God’s commandment, “Thou shall not murder”? Again I say to kill in the name of God is illogical. No they do not do as good a job as Catholics in proving their case. Their case is lost from the beginning with Mohamed

Of course, this is nothing but a straw man. Most Muslims would contend you do not need to murder to be ‘led to Allah’.

c659smith:

For in reality I have no need to prove anything as the proof is there if one looks. Christ when he became Man gave that proof and continues through miracles or as you may say the supernatural or the unexplained.

if Christ became man.

c659smith:

I will say one thing though this thread has increased my faith further as in looking to evidence and seeing more and more of that evidence there is faith through truth.

That’s another cliche.

 

[Armor_of_God]

So let’s change the belief and see if this still makes sense to you…their child is dying, and can be saved by a simple medical procedure, forbidden by the JW’s. They let your 3-year old friend die. Do you still show respect for their beliefs? If your children are watching?

Yes. Which has absolutely nothing to do with agreeing with them, by any stretch of the imagination. It would also be a time to explain to my children and pray for my relatives with them.

I am genuinely curious because, as a parent, I have never felt compelled to pretend to go along with ANY of it.

I don’t pretend to go along with any of it. I just don’t attack them for their beliefs.

I wonder how it is to deal in a mixed bag, where some conflicting religious beliefs are respected, even to the point of being observed, while others are just too appalling to be respectful of.
If you are someone who is against abortions on the basis of the value of human life, how to ‘respect’ those particular JW beliefs?

It is very often a “tight-rope” situation, especially around holidays. I am not too sure what you are referring to in your last sentence above. Are you talking about their refusal to accept blood transfusions? As far as I know, they are opposed to abortion.

 

[Armor_of_God]

I honestly would not recognize him if he worked in my office right now. Also, I will not likely travel several thousand kilometers to see if that same guy is working 20 years later.
It really doesn’t matter too much, because it is not that remarkable. I later got some good help at a restaurant. That doesn’t mean that restaurants are great, or that Chinese people are great, any more than that guys lack of offer means that priests are all bad.

It just seems like you’ve been hauling this around with you for 20 years, that’s all.
That can get heavy after a while.

 

[Armor_of_God]

That’s another cliche.

I second the cliche, Mr. Smith.

 

[Skavau]

I second the cliche, Mr. Smith.

Then I cringe.

 

[Armor_of_God]

Then I cringe.

At what?

 

[Skavau]

At what?

The Cliche