I am an atheist thread 3

[NaturalEnquirer]

I have my doubts - and will explain why.This phrase is very telling. You must have assumed that one of them was ‘coherent’ before looking, or you would not have just looked for **the **‘coherent one’.

Not so. I didn’t assume that one of them was coherent, but I also was not willing to just trust my assumption on something so important.

(edit - typo )

 

[_A]

A,

Now lets take this slow.

There were the 11 Apostles that that fled from Christ as he was being fligged, tried , and crucufied.
This is historical data in Roman,and Jewish recordings of this event and eyewitness accounts as is written by those who knew Him

These Apostles never understood or believed he would rise from the dead.

Why the women had gone to the grave that Sunday with herbs and spices for the body of Jesus.Not to meet a risen Christ

When the women arrived Jesus’s body was not in the tomb and the women ran to where the Apostles were hiding and stated someone has taken out Lord.

The Apostles and the women returned to the tomb and they thought the Roman Guards and Priests guardinng the tomb took the body of Jesus—note still no understanding of the resurrection.

Mary Magdeline returned to the tomb and saw what she believed to be the gardener and said to him where have you taken our Lord?

The Gardener was Jesus and Mary realizing this ran back to the Apostles and Mary was at first dismissed by the Apostles that Christ was risen.

It was not until Christ appeared to them in the flesh that the Apostes then understood.

One of the Apostles Thomas was not there at that time and did not believe Christ was Risen. It was not until Christ appeared before Him in the flesh and place his finger where the nails had been and the gash in his side
that Thomas believed.

Now 11 Apostles and other follower could not have had the same dream. The Apostles were not in a church like setting where such visions may manifest.

11 Apostles would also need to hallucenate at one time which is impossible and then with the same hallucenation.

Jesus continued to appear to many hundreds of His followers and this continued for 40 days until HIs Ascension into heaven where He appeared before 500 people…

The Apostles then in preeching the word of Jesus and His ressurection were persecuted, jailed, and put to death by the authorities.

Now many of these Apostles by preeching the word of Jesus were put to death by slow deaths at different time in the next 40 to 50 years and none renounced.

Then the Christians were placed in the Colusseum to be killed as sport or crucified and their bodies set afire to light the roadway of Rome and yet none fought back.

This is documented in Jewish and Roman records

What are the chances that this was a hoax.

Fair, I would say.

What are the chances that it was misrepresented, misinterpreted or misunderstood? I think very good.

I know the story. There are equally compelling stories which don’t make me believe in Krishna, or Allah. Do you believe in all the gods, or just the one in the bible?

 

[_A]

I’m not here to threaten anyone, friend! I’m not responsible for your soul - only my own and that’s about as much as I can handle.

You are not threatening, but you say that something horrible will happen to me and something wonderful could happen to you after your death.
It may not be your threat, but it is a threat just the same.

 

[_A]

You’ve confused me (poor theist that I am),

so you’re not an atheist, or you agree that you reject reason?

I do not reject reason, but reason rejects the notion of an all-knowing, all-powerful god.

 

[_A]

Not so. I didn’t assume that one of them was coherent, but I also was not willing to just trust my assumption on something so important.

(edit - typo )

You are instead trusting someone elses assumption. Even more dangerous. Wouldn’t a loving god make knowledge of him available even to those who can’t read or write?

Someone told you that the bible is truth, yet there are plenty of places where it can be shown false. Why still believe?

 

[whatevergirl]

You may have something there. I have noticed that many theists have an interest in atheism, which is also suggestive.

You’re the one who has started three full blown threads though hee hee Hi everyone–I’m an ATHEIST!!! Did I tell you, I’m an atheist? Um…do you wanna know why I’m an atheist?

Teasing you a little A…come on…don’t take life so seriously.

 

[whatevergirl]

I think it is a much greater arrogance to think that the creator of the whole universe has a concern for you personally, and cares what you eat on Sunday morning.

Oh, I thought that was called faith.

 

[_A]

You’re the one who has started three full blown threads though hee hee Hi everyone–I’m an ATHEIST!!! Did I tell you, I’m an atheist? Um…do you wanna know why I’m an atheist?

Teasing you a little A…come on…don’t take life so seriously.

But life is deadly serious. (now I am kidding)
I have been amazed at how many people take a strong interest. I have also been pleased to see several atheists on this board, unmolested (mostly).
You have a good community here. That is plenty of reason to stay.

…did I mention that I am an atheist?

 

[_A]

Oh, I thought that was called faith.

Does the god you believe in really take an interest in whether you have breakfast before mass on Sunday?

By the way, when we were kids, we never ate meat on Fridays. This practice has fallen off somewhere in the intervening years…what were the origins of this habit (if habit is the right word)? Why has it’s practice fallen off lately?

I used to notice several restaurants and cafeterias (I am thinking specifically of a hospital cafeteria ) served only fish on Fridays, and I think it was a predominately Catholic practice, but I don’t know any more than that.

Does anyone here know more about this?

 

[whatevergirl]

But life is deadly serious. (now I am kidding)
I have been amazed at how many people take a strong interest. I have also been pleased to see several atheists on this board, unmolested (mostly).
You have a good community here. That is plenty of reason to stay.

…did I mention that I am an atheist?

 

[whatevergirl]

Does the god you believe in really take an interest in whether you have breakfast before mass on Sunday?

By the way, when we were kids, we never ate meat on Fridays. This practice has fallen off somewhere in the intervening years…what were the origins of this habit (if habit is the right word)? Why has it’s practice fallen off lately?

I used to notice several restaurants and cafeterias (I am thinking specifically of a hospital cafeteria ) served only fish on Fridays, and I think it was a predominately Catholic practice, but I don’t know any more than that.

Does anyone here know more about this?

It is still considered a common practice with Catholics, to abstain from meat on Fridays. Common–but not enforced. Common, but one does not have to follow–it is optional, although, it can also be suggested to do some type of penance on Fridays.

Here is the where the rubber meets the road in Catholic faith. We are not only called to follow Scripture…IN ADDITION TO SCRIPTURE, we believe the Holy Spirit has guided us in our traditions…thus, abstaining from eating one hour prior to the Eucharist. Since you are a logic-meister…it actually seems logical that the RCC would create such a “rule” because we wouldn’t want anything to compete with our taking in the Body and Blood of our dear Lord and Savior. So, when even applying logic to it (my son applied logic to it the other day–he is 15 and questions a lot of the Church’s traditions, btw) he could see the value of abstaining one hour before the Eucharist. I think where it starts to look legalistic…is if we only follow rules, and have no love in our hearts. Following rules only, causes us to appear like the Pharisees…and to me, I believe that God will ask us all…who did you love? Not about whether or not we ate a donut a half hour before mass. I think it’s important to note that, because from the outside, we Catholics might appear legalistic…but really…in each and every ‘rule’ and edict–there is logic, beauty and wisdom behind it. (To lead us to holiness) We shouldn’t obsess over eating a donut a half hour before mass–but at the same time, by sacrificing at times…even as small as this…we grow in holiness.

It’s all about leading us to holiness. That is all that God cares about–our souls. Hope that un-muddies the waters?

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

There are equally compelling stories which don’t make me believe in Krishna, or Allah.

Are there? I’ve never heard an equally compelling story for Krishna or Allah. Do you have one, or are you just confident that they exist? If you have one, please share!

You never offered your pro-Zeus evidence, by the way.

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

You are instead trusting someone elses assumption. Even more dangerous. Wouldn’t a loving god make knowledge of him available even to those who can’t read or write?

Someone told you that the bible is truth, yet there are plenty of places where it can be shown false. Why still believe?

Gah - there are too many posts on this thread! Sorry for double/triple/whatever posting.

Whose assumption am I trusting?

Yes, a loving god certainly would be available to the illiterate. That’s why there’s a priesthood.

Where can the Bible be shown to be false? A literal reading of Genesis? Piffle. Or, “The bible says pi is 3.00 lol”?

Does the god you believe in really take an interest in whether you have breakfast before mass on Sunday?

Yes. What’s your point?

 

[whatevergirl]

Gah - there are too many posts on this thread! Sorry for double/triple/whatever posting.

Whose assumption am I trusting?

Yes, a loving god certainly would be available to the illiterate. That’s why there’s a priesthood.

Where can the Bible be shown to be false? A literal reading of Genesis? Piffle. Or, “The bible says pi is 3.00 lol”?

Yes. What’s your point?

you mean my posting? “whatever” posting? Sorry…I’m thinking about the puns thread again.

 

[whatevergirl]

You are not threatening, but you say that something horrible will happen to me and something wonderful could happen to you after your death.
It may not be your threat, but it is a threat just the same.

Actually…not a threat…but God actually follows through with people in how they view Him. If you believe He doesn’t exist, why would you want to go to a place where He does, in the after life? Know what I mean?

 

[D_M]

I do not reject reason, but reason rejects the notion of an all-knowing, all-powerful god.

I think you do reject reason because reason in fact affirms the existence of an all-knowing, all-powerful God and to this you reject.

From Plato to Kant there have been multitudes of thinkers and logicians who have affirmed the existence of a God and used reason heavily in their thought.

Why do you believe in reason? You deny the existence of a God yet you have not denied (at least not here) the existence of reason, which one would think is an easier belief to do away with…

is reason the same for everyone or is it subjective? If it was the same for everyone, I would repeat the same argument you used against the existence of God and ask why is it different from person to another across the world? That is to say why does one person find something to be logical while another does not? Surely if it was objective, they would all know it the same… right?

 

[_A]

It’s all about leading us to holiness. That is all that God cares about–our souls. Hope that un-muddies the waters?

Thanks for clearing that up about eating before mass, but I still don’t understand about meat on Fridays. Seems rather arbitrary, but I guess as long as the goal it to deny yourself something, it doesn’t really matter which day everyone takes part.

 

[whatevergirl]

Thanks for clearing that up about eating before mass, but I still don’t understand about meat on Fridays. Seems rather arbitrary, but I guess as long as the goal it to deny yourself something, it doesn’t really matter which day everyone takes part.

I will be back A with the reasoning behind that, said better than I will say it. (unless someone else could jump in) I know the reasoning in my mind, but need the right words–hey you like reasoning!

I will post it later.

 

[_A]

Are there? I’ve never heard an equally compelling story for Krishna or Allah. Do you have one, or are you just confident that they exist? If you have one, please share!

You never offered your pro-Zeus evidence, by the way.

The stories of Krishna have many followers. Same for Allah. If you just count adherents, you will arrive at the conclusion that the muslims are correct.

As to the Zeus evidence, just the fact that he has been described in an old book is as much evidence as anyone has for their god.

Go ahead and prove that he does not exist, or stop expecting me to offer proof that your god doesn’t.

 

[_A]

Gah - there are too many posts on this thread! Sorry for double/triple/whatever posting.

Whose assumption am I trusting?

The Catholic Church, one of the wealthiest organizations on earth. Oh, and don’t forget that they need more money.
Their interpretation is what you have accepted.

Yes, a loving god certainly would be available to the illiterate. That’s why there’s a priesthood.

So, since priests are far from infallible, why didn’t your god leave a more reliable message for his non-literate children?

Where can the Bible be shown to be false? A literal reading of Genesis? Piffle.

A literal reading of genesis does yield some interesting ‘piffle’. (I am surprised to hear a catholic use that word when referring to a book of the bible, btw). The genesis story is several ways impossible, and has been disproved. Why still believe the other stories?

Or, “The bible says pi is 3.00 lol”?

Yup. I would expect more accuracy from an omnipotent being. Funny how you don’t.