I am an atheist thread 3

[lkddav]

IKDDA and A

Any response from post #663

LOL

Give me a break. I’m kinda slow at this

 

[c659smith]

Hi 659

These three christian apologetics are not very convincing to me.
This brings me back to my original question to you. If Greenleaf, Luckhoo and Stobel are right and the evidence is as overwhelming as you say, why isn’t the population of this planet not on it’s knee’s worshiping your god. Why isn’t the world convinced it’s true.

By the way, I did smile after the OJ remark.

One of the main reasons is that Catholism is illegal in many countries.

Now lets take China 3/4 of the world population for one where Roman Catholism is present but not without extreme prejudice to and including the jailing regularly of Catholic Priests for sayoing Mass. The China goverment refusing to allow visa’s and permits to many different regions and persercuting those that follow Christianity. It is a matter of Communism still fighting freedom of religion.

2nd is Vietnam and Cambodia where for the most part Catholism is still illegal. Beginning to change a tiny tiny little because of vietnam wanting to become part of the world trade organization but only for a show. Visa very diffulcult to get for Christian Religious clergy never the less never able to build churches or say Mass…

3rd of course is Southwest Asia, and Arabia, and Africa

Do me a favor and wear a cross and practice Christianity in many of these regions as it is illegal–Saudi Arabia, Afganistan, Iran, Somalia, Sudan,etc…

taking out these countries makes Christianity the dominant Religion. For let us in and we will grow Jesus;s Church,

past decade from 900 million to 1.2 billion.

As far as these writters and founders of our law of evidence you may not like them but I answered your question as to what is evidence and how modern civilization defines it. Here also you can research and see the trial of modern courts as it relatres to evidence and the final results by thesse courts in relationship to the Bible and Jesus.

Remember these noted professors and doctors were Atheists when they began their research and then after the facts were attained became Christian.

 

[c659smith]

c659smith;3242984:

First hand the evidence is put before you and the evidence is true. It is not I who must prove evidence that has been collected and certified through the thousands of years and taken as fact by the civilized world… For it is you Atheist that must disprove this evidence or you live the lie.

QUOTE]

Hi 659

The people of Hinduism, buddism, sikhism, shinto, jainism etc. do not accept your evidence as fact. They are part of the civilized world.
If the evidence is there why aren’t these people christians?

Because for the most part they make it illegal or impossible to practise freedom of Religion or to spread the word of Christanity in their countries;

Do you think if Mother Theresa stated she was there to convert the Hindu’s into Christians they would have allowed her into India. Mother Theres could not preech the faith in public but showed her faith in action.

God Bless

 

[c659smith]

See, that’s more like it! Dead babies and each a miracle.

for pharoh was forewarned and he chose His son’s faith and that of his people. Not God

Man has free will.

 

[lkddav]

I’m not saying an atheist has to be unhappy because they don’t believe, but I think it’s a different kind of happiness.

I like looking in the mirror in the morning and know what i am looking at. I see a bipedal primate, somewhere along the way we developed a self conscious, I know i am going to die. When i die i will cease to exist.

 

[lkddav]

We have two options here, one to believe and one not to believe. I’d rather error on the side of caution when I die believing that it is not the end and I will go to heaven (hopefully). If my beliefs are in error, what harm has it done??? Or I could not believe and die being wrong in my assertions ending up quite possibly in hell. If my belief is based only on a lack of absolute and undeniable proof (proof which can not be given), then I would probably be atheist.

I mean honestly, what harm does it do to believe just so long as you’re not a fanatic or terrorist?!?! Why take the chance???

Hi Psyche
You don’t seem to have any problem living a lie, just to be on the safe side. Is this what you are saying??

 

[c659smith]

I was hoping smith would go look at a list of currently living apes and prove me wrong
And while I didn’t empty the flask, it will need filling soon…

Websters dictionary.definition. why do Atheists have their own dictionary?

Any of various large, tailless Old World primates of the family Pongidae, including the chimpanzee, gorilla, gibbon, and orangutan.
A monkey.
A mimic or imitator.
Informal. A clumsy or boorish person.
tr.v., aped, ap·ing, apes.
To mimic slavishly but often with an absurd result. See synonyms at imitate.

idiom:
go ape Informal.

To become wildly excited or enthusiastic: went ape at the party; goes ape over Thai cuisine.

[Middle English, from Old English apa.]

I believe most are still alive.

 

[psyche23]

Hi Psyche
You don’t seem to have any problem living a lie, just to be on the safe side. Is this what you are saying??

No, not even close. It’s not a lie, but I put it forth to you and all other atheists who are soo adament against believing. It might help you become more open to the idea and if or when you do believe, then you can take it a step further.

I’m confident in my faith and in my God. You don’t… suit yourself…

 

[c659smith]

continued @ c659smith

Actually, the Roman Catholic church has taken no official position on the shroud. Could this be because most of the time when they take a stance on anything unproven that they could in their wildest dreams see being testable, they end up looking like morons? The earth being the center of the universe, the sky being a firmament are only a couple of examples. They are playing it much smarter these days and keeping their cards closer to their chest. Why would an organisation that has a direct line to god have any difficulty in searching for the truth? In fact, why would that organisation need to search at all?

Thanks for showing me where you copied and pasted your ENTIRE post #214 in regards to the shroud of turin, adding only “as far as the shroud:”. Also in that post was your argument for the historical jesus, which I questioned in regards to the timing of the solar eclipse, and you have ignored. Here is where you copied and pasted this entire argument from:

timothyministries.org/theologicaldictionary/references.aspx?theword=historical%20Jesus

Confirming my point that such conclusions are only drawn by those that presuppose the bible is a history book. I am seeing very little independent thought from you.

Regardless, the shroudstory website you’ve linked to, doesn’t try to argue the case for this being Jesus’ burial shroud, it is directed purely at pointing out any flaws with the previous samples. It also doesn’t mention my contention regarding the restoration of 2002 and how that affects the validity of tests done after that year. Did you read the whole page or did you stop where you copied and pasted that paragraph?

Here’s your false dichotomy again.

Aw, diddums!

This sentence alone shows that you don’t understand what a scientific theory is.

You’ve copied and pasted this from counterbalance.net/ctns-vo/ctns-vo-print.html and I agree that some of these essays look very interesting. Literal interpretations of the bible are not capable of standing up to scientific evidence, more and more of it has to be classed as metaphor or allegory.

You can’t be serious???

Here’s where you copied and pasted this bit from space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/vatican_observe_000716.html

I never said that theists couldn’t be scientists. I’m happy to listen to the scientific evidence gathered by anybody.

Copied and pasted from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_and_the_Roman_Catholic_Church

But what is your point? For most of human history God was the best explanation for the existence and nature of the physical universe. Unfortunately for God and religion, in recent times there have been other theories postulated that have several things going for them, like being more logical, consistent and backed by evidence. (bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/beliefs/reasons_6.shtml)

As long as it is kept out of the science classroom, unless it will conform to the same careful quality controls. I think teaching comparative religion is great, and religion is an undeniable part of our history that we shouldn’t have a need to cover up.

Do even YOU understand your posts?

1. Show me documented proof by a Pope, declaration from Rome where the Catholic Church takes no position on the vality of the shroud.

Yes I did read the whole article and others after 2002, apparently you did not as if you did you would have known the tests in the nineties were declared flawed by the scientific community.

You are the one who asked for documentation and that I gave you. The easiet way is from these sites. Apparently you have a problem with showing evidence or vality in what you say as you refute all evidence nor back up your statement with evidence or facts.
Again show me where the bible does not stand up to scientific evidence. I have definitely proved my case as far as a court of law.
show me proof. Your understanding of Catholism is but a speck of sand. Catholism does not refute science and science doe not refute Catholism. The secular community such as yourself does.

The one thing I am doing is giving you my inndepedent thought backed up from science, laws of evidence, and facts.

 

[c659smith]

1. Show me documented proof by a Pope, declaration from Rome where the Catholic Church takes no position on the vality of the shroud.

Yes I did read the whole article and others after 2002, apparently you did not as if you did you would have known the tests in the nineties were declared flawed by the scientific community.

You are the one who asked for documentation and that I gave you. The easiet way is from these sites. Apparently you have a problem with showing evidence or vality in what you say as you refute all evidence nor back up your statement with evidence or facts.
Again show me where the bible does not stand up to scientific evidence. I have definitely proved my case as far as a court of law.
show me proof. Your understanding of Catholism is but a speck of sand. Catholism does not refute science and science doe not refute Catholism. The secular community such as yourself does.

The one thing I am doing is giving you my inndepedent thought backed up from science, laws of evidence, and facts.

What does the timing of the solar eclipse got to do with Christ? You have me confused with someone else.
Or are you saying that the Star of Bethlehem was due an astronomic phenoneum. the time Christ died on the cross to a solar eclipse, Fatima another eclipse,etc… you are starting to prove my point.

 

[lkddav]

One of the main reasons is that Catholism is illegal in many countries.

Now lets take China 3/4 of the world population for one where Roman Catholism is present but not without extreme prejudice to and including the jailing regularly of Catholic Priests for sayoing Mass. The China goverment refusing to allow visa’s and permits to many different regions and persercuting those that follow Christianity. It is a matter of Communism still fighting freedom of religion.

Hi 659
What is your source for this information??

 

[lkddav]

of religion.

2nd is Vietnam and Cambodia where for the most part Catholism is still illegal. Beginning to change a tiny tiny little because of vietnam wanting to become part of the world trade organization but only for a show. Visa very diffulcult to get for Christian Religious clergy never the less never able to build churches or say Mass…

.

Vietnam is 8% catholic. Provide your sources for this information please.

 

[c659smith]

Vietnam is 8% catholic. Provide your sources for this information please.

No i will not till you site yours “8” %???

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Wow, we have really covered a lot of subjects on the last 2 threads. I would like to start again and say that you have all been very generous with your time. Thanks and keep it up!

So, is this the “I’m an atheist heathen and I like to argue with so-called believers” thread?

How “tolerant” are you folks (the atheists here) at being called self-contradicting hyper-religious “anti-not-your-religion”-ists?

Also known as fascist would-be slavemasters of mankind?



Just curious.

 

[lkddav]

One of the main reasons is that Catholism is illegal in many countries.

3rd of course is Southwest Asia, and Arabia, and Africa

HI 659

Africa is 46% catholic and 40% muslim. The rest a African religion.
If the evidence is there, shouldn’t they all be catholics??

 

[lkddav]

Remember these noted professors and doctors were Atheists when they began their research and then after the facts were attained became Christian.

Three people out of billions became delusional. What about the other billions, myself included, why isn’t their enough evidence for us?

 

[c659smith]

Hi 659

What is your source for this information??

Catholic News Agency and the world free press

Religious Censorship
The Bible among objects prohibited at the 2008 Beijing Olympics

Beijing, Nov 2, 2007 / 02:18 pm (CNA).- Organizers of the 2008 Olympics in Beijing have published a list of “prohibited objects” in the Olympic village where athletes will stay. To the surprise of many, Bibles are among the objects that will not be allowed.

According to the Italian daily La Gazzetta dello Sport, organizers have cited “security reasons” and have prohibited athletes from bearing any kind of religious symbol at Olympic facilities.

Other objects on the list include video cameras and cups.

The Spanish daily La Razon said the rule was one of a number of “signs of censure and intolerance” towards religious objects, particularly those used by Christians in China. Currently in China five bishops and fifteen priests are in prison for opposing the official Church.

Original Source: archivio.gazzetta.it/archiveDocumentServlet.jsp?url=/documenti_gazzetta/archivio/gazzetta/2007/10/ga_10_071013

if you need more be glad to get more sources for you to look at.

 

[lkddav]

No i will not till you site yours “8” %???

My bad… Vietnam is 10% catholic. Why aren’t they all catholics. The evidence is sooo overwhelming.

vietnam.com/#religion

 

[c659smith]

Three people out of billions became delusional. What about the other billions, myself included, why isn’t their enough evidence for us?

I ask and I ask what is evidence to you?

I have over and over again given you the rules of evidence.

The rule of evidence that are used today in a court of law and the people who wrote them being at one time atheist themselves till they applied the rule of law aganist the bible.

Your answer to the brilliant professors and experts in law is that they are dellusional.

Give me your rules of evidence at least I will know if you have any idea on what evidence is, how evidence becomes credible. and then fact.

You are not frustrating me in the least, I am not going away, and will have you and the others prove one way or the other weither it is on sound principles of science and laws of evidence that you have come to the decision of Atheism or if you are dellusional.

Again it is not up to me to prove already accepted evidence it is up to you to prove it wrong.

God Bless

 

[lkddav]

Catholic News Agency and the world free press

Religious Censorship
The Bible among objects prohibited at the 2008 Beijing Olympics

Beijing, Nov 2, 2007 / 02:18 pm (CNA).- Organizers of the 2008 Olympics in Beijing have published a list of “prohibited objects” in the Olympic village where athletes will stay. To the surprise of many, Bibles are among the objects that will not be allowed.

According to the Italian daily La Gazzetta dello Sport, organizers have cited “security reasons” and have prohibited athletes from bearing any kind of religious symbol at Olympic facilities.

Other objects on the list include video cameras and cups.

The Spanish daily La Razon said the rule was one of a number of “signs of censure and intolerance” towards religious objects, particularly those used by Christians in China. Currently in China five bishops and fifteen priests are in prison for opposing the official Church.

Original Source: archivio.gazzetta.it/archiveDocumentServlet.jsp?url=/documenti_gazzetta/archivio/gazzetta/2007/10/ga_10_071013

if you need more be glad to get more sources for you to look at.

Hi
Your link didn’t work. I did find this though. The are christian in china.

RELIGIONS: China is a multi-religious country. Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Catholicism and Protestantism, with the first three being more wide spread.Various religions exert different influence on different ethnic groups. Islam is followed by the Hui, Uygur, Kazak, Kirgiz, Tatar, Dongxiang, Salar and Bonan nationalities; Buddhism and Lamaism are followed by the Tibetan, Mongolian, Dai and Yugur nationalities; Christianity is followed by the Miao, Yao and Yi nationalities; Shamanism is followed by the Oroqen, Ewenki and Daur nationalities; the majority Han nationality believes in Buddhism, Christianity and Taoism.

chinatoday.com/general/a.htm#RELI