I am an atheist thread 4

[_A]

Atheism is more than a lack of belief in God. It is a belief that your life is a journey toward becoming nothing, a return to the state from which you believe life began. From nothing, to something, to nothing again.

That may be what your atheism means to you, but it is not what the word means.

 

[JonW]

HI folks. I haven’t read most of this thread, but as a former atheist I’d like to point out that atheism is (vaguely) merely a lack of belief. It is not a faith. However, it is a system of thought, in that the proposition “God does not exist” or however one words it to the same effect, engenders implications which, as happenstance happens to have it, are theological in nature. An example that immediately comes to mind would be “The sentence ‘God does not exist’ is true.” More evocative: “The sentence ‘God exists’ is false.” As such it is a positive assertion, subject to any and all pertinent rules of form, grammar, and logic. Moreover, it shares the burden of proof with the complementary theistic statement. One can argue for a “weak” atheism, but the conditional, even if tacit to the point of irrelevant, is there to stonewall you. A better ballast might be agnosticism?

Best

Jon Winterburn

 

[phooney]

One does currently argue for weak atheism.

I am an agnostic atheist, what do you mean by ballast in this context?

 

[Pier]

This thread is past the one thousand post limit…

Would someone care to start a new one?

 

[phooney]

It’s best to wait until one of the Mods locks it, otherwise we just end up with two threads going and it gets (more) confusing.

 

[mariyka]

As a faithful lurker from the beginning of the first thread (interested in the fishing), I’ve been following the ebbs and flows of the discussions. It’s been edifying, frustrating, thought-provoking.

A, your question about why should one person be able to high-jack another’s organs, seems to have been left unanswered.

To me, it’s like getting pet (on purpose or not) and then realizing that you are not prepared or able to take care of it properly. You found you have allergies, or they really cramp your lifestyle. What would you do? Would you kill it outright or find another home for it?

Please forgive me if I don’t respond right away. It’s Sunday morning, and I’ll be at church.

Best wishes to you!

 

[_A]

As a faithful lurker from the beginning of the first thread (interested in the fishing), I’ve been following the ebbs and flows of the discussions. It’s been edifying, frustrating, thought-provoking.

That is very flattering, I thank you, as I am sure the other contributors will.

A, your question about why should one person be able to high-jack another’s organs, seems to have been left unanswered.

It has, thanks for noticing.

To me, it’s like getting pet (on purpose or not) and then realizing that you are not prepared or able to take care of it properly. You found you have allergies, or they really cramp your lifestyle. What would you do? Would you kill it outright or find another home for it?It depends. A woman getting pregnant is not the same as getting a pet. If someone left you a couple hundred heads of cattle as an inheritance, would you try to feed and keep them all, or send them to slaughter?
The questions mean little because they have so little to do with a womans womb. If someone gave you a pet, you could leave it outside to fend for itself (I personally think that is cruel, but it happens).
An embryo must have the full sharing of it’s host, or it dies. If that one host does not want to have a baby (or a pet), she has every right to go get a D&C. (or take the pet to the vet for the lethal injection).

Please forgive me if I don’t respond right away. It’s Sunday morning, and I’ll be at church.

Best wishes to you!

Every time you repeat those songs and prayers, it makes another copy in your brain.

 

[_A]

I will be making a thread five. When this one is locked, look for me there.

 

[Ronald_E]

A, I know why I can’t answer your question. It is because of the term you have used which is “hijacked”. The baby does not hijack anybody. If someone thinks they have been hijacked then it implies that something has been stolen from them by force.
Nothing has been stolen from the woman who has an unwanted pregnancy.
It is the baby’s life that is being hijacked when its life is terminated. It is being stolen by force which is the definition of hijacking.

 

[_A]

A, I know why I can’t answer your question. It is because of the term you have used which is “hijacked”. The baby does not hijack anybody. If someone thinks they have been hijacked then it implies that something has been stolen from them by force.
Nothing has been stolen from the woman who has an unwanted pregnancy.
It is the baby’s life that is being hijacked when its life is terminated. It is being stolen by force which is the definition of hijacking.

If the baby is a person, it must take on the responsibility to keep itself breathing. If it cannot, the only shot it has is to convince someone else to let it parasite off their system while it grows.
If it can’t find someone, or the host rejects it, it dies.
Why do you have such a problem with a woman having this choice? Why would you force them into slavery? Have you read the horrible news stories from Nicaragua, where abortion is illegal?

 

[Pier]

If the baby is a person, it must take on the responsibility to keep itself breathing. If it cannot, the only shot it has is to convince someone else to let it parasite off their system while it grows.
If it can’t find someone, or the host rejects it, it dies.

This argument does not make sense.

A baby born perfectly healthy will die if it is not cared for - they do not sustain themselves.

 

[Ronald_E]

If the baby is a person, it must take on the responsibility to keep itself breathing. If it cannot, the only shot it has is to convince someone else to let it parasite off their system while it grows.
If it can’t find someone, or the host rejects it, it dies.
Why do you have such a problem with a woman having this choice? Why would you force them into slavery? Have you read the horrible news stories from Nicaragua, where abortion is illegal?

Death is a choice that the rejecting mother makes for the baby. Why not look at why she makes this choice rather than supporting the death sentence that is against the natural function of her body? We exist because we were not naturally or unnaturally aborted.
We do women no good helping them to adjust to a culture that does not understand the innate intelligence they possess. Instead they are forced to try to fit into a male’s value system and then if they have success they think this is freedom. This is an insidious slavery based on gaining power and success that are the creation of males.
Why can’t you see this instead of calling the product of their sexual union with a male who only wants the freedom of sex without complications, a parasite. The real parasite in this scenario is the male.
As god once said, “…money for nothin’ and my chicks for free.”

 

[Armor_of_God]

Hi Phooney,

Thank you for your post.

Your God never seems to do anything except through his parishoners. Why doesn’t he do something explicitly and directly through himself?

He does, but you don’t believe it.

I think you do yourself a diservice when you (collectively) attribute your good deeds to a poorly defined external omnipotent entity. If you do something that is ‘good’ then it was you that did it, and I thank you for it.

You’re welcome, but I personally do not need to receive credit for ‘good’, unless I can then point towards God. God doesn’t need it either, but I have no one else to thank but Him as the source of good.

However, what I wonder about is if anybody as a Catholic, or theist in general, as a better reason for their morality then “because God said so”. I am assuming that the sanctity of human life has been traced back to the moment of conception via god’s word somewhere in your mythos anyway.

When I was a kid, I believed certain things were right “because God said so”. However, as time goes by, I realize more and more that the morality I was taught (and continue to study) makes sense in so many ways. These ‘laws’ are natural laws that protect us from physical and spiritual harm, and ensure our wellbeing.

 

[Ronald_E]

A, I haven’t seen the stories about Nicaragua. However, I did see a report several weeks ago on 60 Minutes about the genocide in the Congo. Women being totured and raped multiple times. Pregnancies resulted from these rapes. At the end of the report they had several women with their babies that resulted from this hideous brutality. The mothers were in love with their children. They were beaming. Love conquered hate by choosing life. It was the most beautiful sight I have seen.
You know what I want to do A? I want to run across the country and pray the rosary silently to raise money for unwed mothers and expectant mothers.
I have been putting this out to several Catholic organizations and have not received any positive feedback.
Maybe I am psychotic. But, I would rather have this psychosis than anything I have seen so far.
Would you join me for a run?
Or could you show me how to start a thread for this?

 

[_A]

This argument does not make sense.

A baby born perfectly healthy will die if it is not cared for - they do not sustain themselves.

A baby can be cared for by anyone, the cases are nowhere near the same.
Can I hook up to your liver, or kidneys just because I need to?

Death is a choice that the rejecting mother makes for the baby.

No, she simply refuses to share her organs with it. If you don’t find a way to share yours with it, you are equally guilty as she.

Why not look at why she makes this choice rather than supporting the death sentence that is against the natural function of her body? We exist because we were not naturally or unnaturally aborted.

Abortion naturally happens in nature all the time. How can you say it is unnatural? By the way, it typing messages about ethical concerns over the interwebs ‘natural’?

the product of their sexual union with a male who only wants the freedom of sex without complications, a parasite.

I am using the scientific definition of ‘parasite’, to describe the type of dependency the developing fetus has on the host (the mother)

The real parasite in this scenario is the male.

Having heard your horrid opinion of males several times, I have learned to ignore this self-hating you like to share.

As god once said, “…money for nothin’ and my chicks for free.”

I don’t think Mr. Knopfler qualifies as a ‘god’. He was barely able to turn the water into wine with a kit from the grocery store. As for walking on water, he did it surely enough, but it was winter and there were many centimeters of ice…

A, I haven’t seen the stories about Nicaragua. However, I did see a report several weeks ago on 60 Minutes about the genocide in the Congo. Women being totured and raped multiple times. Pregnancies resulted from these rapes. At the end of the report they had several women with their babies that resulted from this hideous brutality. The mothers were in love with their children. They were beaming. Love conquered hate by choosing life. It was the most beautiful sight I have seen.

This brutality is why I am happy that the RC church isn’t running too many governments anymore. Of course people will make the best of it, but do you think it is good that they were impregnated against their will?

You know what I want to do A? I want to run across the country and pray the rosary silently to raise money for unwed mothers and expectant mothers.
I have been putting this out to several Catholic organizations and have not received any positive feedback.

I don’t think Catholic organizations usually treat unwed mothers very well. Even quite recently they have done horrible things like the magdeline laundries. I would suggest looking for support among individuals (catholic individuals are pretty great at this kind of support, too)

Maybe I am psychotic. But, I would rather have this psychosis than anything I have seen so far.
Would you join me for a run?

I thank you for the invite, but I am in no shape to start on such a project.

Or could you show me how to start a thread for this?

You might try going to this thread, and clicking the ‘new thread’ button. It is my best guess for a place to put your thread to draw attention. The rest should follow relatively easily.

 

[Minnie31]

I am using the scientific definition of ‘parasite’, to describe the type of dependency the developing fetus has on the host (the mother).

Hi A! Glad to see you share the same thought process as I on this issue. I believed I addressed the same thing in thread 3.

 

[_A]

Hi A! Glad to see you share the same thought process as I on this issue. I believed I addressed the same thing in thread 3.

I wonder why everyone has such a hate on for parasites anyway? Does everything have to be good or evil to believers?

 

[Minnie31]

Yeah it seems like things have to be either black or white.

 

[Ronald_E]

A, You did not address the word hijacked that you used for the child developing in the womb and being dependent on the mother for life.
It sounds like Minnie has been firmly brainwashed into the male way of defining a living human in the womb. The vocabulary we use has been established by males.
When a woman uses a male’s vocabulary she doesn’t realize how she is constantly being brainwashed into believing that she has free choice.
If you check the bible for just one minute you will find that the name Eve actually means living. In this story she is not made from clay but is made from the man’s flesh. She is one step more evolved than the man who was formed from clay. Think about the symbolism being expressed here before you get into your pattern thought in which there is no freedom to look outside the box.
Thanks for the new thread info A. This internet thing is not natural for me. That is certain.
By the way I did mean natural abortion above which is different from the choice to abort which is born out of self-preservation.
Speaking of self-preservation, I gotta go shopping for food.
Take care out there.

 

[Minnie31]

It sounds like Minnie has been firmly brainwashed into the male way of defining a living human in the womb. The vocabulary we use has been established by males.
When a woman uses a male’s vocabulary she doesn’t realize how she is constantly being brainwashed into believing that she has free choice.

I have not been brainwashed regarding this issue. And who cares whether such terminology has been established by males or females. Is that really important?

Thanks again for the laugh.