I am an out gay man. Ask me anything.

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Windfish said:
If you are an atheist, then, yeah, you deny free will. …
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I think we can give him the courtesy of telling us what he believes rather than us telling him what he believes.

If that wasn’t your intention, I humbly suggest avoiding “you” and “you’re” language and instead focus (like you started to) on the implications of the philsophic outlook. He may or may not repudiate those implications, after all.
 
manualman said:
I think we can give him the courtesy of telling us what he believes rather than us telling him what he believes.

If that wasn’t your intention, I humbly suggest avoiding “you” and “you’re” language and instead focus (like you started to) on the implications of the philsophic outlook. He may or may not repudiate those implications, after all.
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Of course, I am assuming he is consistent with his atheism. If not, I apologize, but then, we have a problem on our hands. How can he believe in things that are incompatible with atheism? It would be like if I, a Catholic, denied the authority of the Magisterium. Intellectual consistency and honesty would seek to correct that discontinuity. And that’s all we can hope for when it comes to atheists. Realizing the positively asinine things they must hold to is a start towards the truth.
 
I don’t have a question for you, just a statement of support.

One day, America will come it senses and stop treating homosexuals like second class citizens. Hopefully that day comes sooner rather than later. Those homosexuals who are authentically living their lives in spite of culture, family, and religion are braver than heterosexuals can ever know.
 
cheese_sdc said:
I don’t have a question for you, just a statement of support.

One day, America will come it senses and stop treating homosexuals like second class citizens. Hopefully that day comes sooner rather than later. Those homosexuals who are authentically living their lives in spite of culture, family, and religion are braver than heterosexuals can ever know.
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In response to this, I want to post what MoM2 posted on another forum:
Why would God place such a heavy burden on human beings? It seems that the only answer that is available to us is the idea that God in his infinite wisdom sees a greater good that cannot be actualized without suffering, and thus for the sake of that good, God permits suffering. Whether we agree with Gods actions will depend on whether we value the greater good above and beyond our own suffering.
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While there might be some biological elements involved in the manifestation of same sex attractions, it is my opinion that SSA is predominantly born out of the sexual insecurity and also the sexual ignorance which inflicts humanity as a whole. I believe that same sex attraction is a social phenomena which manifests itself in relation to ones own contextual and social experiences of other human beings of the same sex. It isn’t the fault of the individual. If there is a fault, i would argue that it is to be found in the human community as a whole in regards to how they express themselves as sexual beings. Of course, there are probably other factors involved.
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We are in general wounded insecure creatures; and in most cases we spend a lot of our lives in ignorance of what we really are, where we came from, and the purpose for which our nature is intended. In light of that fact it is not at all surprising that human beings develop sexual or psychological conditions or disorders. Same sex attractions evidently is one of the most humiliating conditions in existence since it undermines one of the most fundamental aspects of what we are; the fact that we are evidently male and female. It oppresses the potential expression of what it objectively means to be a man or a women, and thus destroys the good of that unitive teleological purpose which is self evident in human sexuality. If you are a man and you are unable to express your nature as a man sufficiently, this is bound to cause a deep depression in the victim, especially if they feel forced to remain silent out of fear of social rejection. Also the experience of those attractions in and of themselves are surely degrading to those who value their heterosexual nature. The same would be true of somebody who had sexual attractions to animals or children. These kinds of attractions are heavy burdens, not just because of social rejection, but because they undermine and oppress the good of what we are fundamentally and objectively.
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Nobody asks for SSA, and not only that; having these burdens can be extremely dangerous. In a world where sex is everything, to have that kind of condition is often met with rejection by ones heterosexual female and male pears since you are perceived as less than a man or less than a women - a freak of nature; and thus one is treated with exclusion, ridicule, violence and irrational fear due to the psychological insecurities of human beings in general.
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This is very unfortunate, as i believe the plight of those dealing with SSA would be greatly lessened if they received understanding inclusion and respect by people of the same sex.
It is even more unfortunate that the prejudices of human beings have been exploited as an excuse to justify homosexual behavior as something normal or moral. This agenda is just as corrupt. In terms of believing in the value of ones self in the face of discrimination, this cuase is one thing that the gay movement can be applauded for. However, pretending that we are not dealing with something that is a disorder of what we are as men and women, is causing an even greater problem. Its causing an ignorance of what we are; not an acceptance of what we are. It is ignoring what we are fundamentally and objectively (that we are men and women) for the sake of fulfilling some attraction; in effect saying that attractions are more important than the purpose that our objective sexuality evidently serves, and thus in effect saying that attractions are the only things that has the authority to define us. Instead of healing the wound, it is now gaping leaving human beings open to spiritual destruction and manifest-ignorance.
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I think MoM2 does a great job of acknowledging the plight, but still having his eye on the objective truth of things.
 
If the truth-which you say you seek-is that God exists along with heaven and he’ll-which presumably the Catholics on here all believe-and in the last moments of your life, you were presented with the choice to admit that your homosexual actions were wrong and enjoy eternal life in heaven or refuse to admit that and go to hell, which choice do you think you would make?
 
Maybe you answered this and I missed it, but you claim that your moral foundation is “respect and cooperation”, and that those things are sufficient.

My immediate reaction is “respect for what” and “cooperation with whom or what”. You say that you agree that there is static moral standard, but both of those foundational principles are entirely relative.

Pleas explain. I can give you hypotheticals of the problems I see with your position, if you like.
 
Peepers said:
Maybe you answered this and I missed it, but you claim that your moral foundation is “respect and cooperation”, and that those things are sufficient.

My immediate reaction is “respect for what” and “cooperation with whom or what”. You say that you agree that there is static moral standard, but both of those foundational principles are entirely relative.

Pleas explain. I can give you hypotheticals of the problems I see with your position, if you like.
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But the questions go much deeper. Just how did this person arrive at those things being the static moral standard? By bare assertion? We all know where that leads.
 
Windfish said:
But the questions go much deeper. Just how did this person arrive at those things being the static moral standard? By bare assertion? We all know where that leads.
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Respect for God would allow a starting point, and I think would be compatible with a static moral code. I have not thought it through, but that makes sense to me at first glance. “Respect” as a general concept, does not make much sense to me. Cooperation can be good or bad, and is morally neutral out of context for me.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Well I guess you have a lifelong friend, meltzer! I like the Twilight Zone and Outer Limits. I’m a public education sixth grade teacher. My life is like the Twilight Zone sometimes! 😛
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That’s great to hear, Gurney. And the Outer Limits too! I can sympathize with your feeling of being in the Twilight Zone since I have friends who teach in high school, and I myself am a college instructor at a Catholic university. (My mother was also a public elementary school teacher in New York City.) So I know the drill. Hopefully, you’re off this week as I am.
 
meltzerboy said:
That’s great to hear, Gurney. And the Outer Limits too! I can sympathize with your feeling of being in the Twilight Zone since I have friends who teach in high school, and I myself am a college instructor at a Catholic university. (My mother was also a public elementary school teacher in New York City.) So I know the drill. Hopefully, you’re off this week as I am.
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What subject(s) do you teach, MB?
 
Hello Sir, I think you are very courageous and I like your post.

What I want to know is how exactly do the gay men see women? I have a good friend who is gay and had another in the past, we are very close and can talk about most things, do the gay men see a woman as a good friend and companion but just not sexually interesting or attractive? Are women mostly the same to the gay man or vary?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I’m just curious. I wonder for a long time., thanks
 
rebecca123 said:
Hello Sir, I think you are very courageous and I like your post.

What I want to know is how exactly do the gay men see women? I have a good friend who is gay and had another in the past, we are very close and can talk about most things, do the gay men see a woman as a good friend and companion but just not sexually interesting or attractive? Are women mostly the same to the gay man or vary?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I’m just curious. I wonder for a long time., thanks
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I am a gay man. I have been celibate for a couple of years now. I can only speak for myself, but I do not see women as objects of sexual desire. I tend to have very close relationships with women. I am not sure what you are asking. Just as straight men are not generally attracted to other males, gay men are not generally attracted sexually to women. Just as straight men and women can have nonsexual relationships, so can straight men and gay men, and do can gay men and gay men. Perhaps I have some insight into your question, in that two of my female friends have told me that I would the the perfect husband, if not for the sex issue. When sexuality does not interfere with the relationship, then perhaps it is possible to be more intimate in other ways.
 
Exalt said:
Well, I can only talk about my own experience. Personally, I’ve enjoyed the fact that it’s very easy to find romantic partners with tons and tons of common ground. We play games together, go see nerdy movies together, geek out about astrophysics together, and so on. Every night is guy’s night. From what I’ve observed, that kind of girl is a bit harder to find. Nerdy dudes seem to be far, far more common that nerdy girls. That’s something I appreciate about being attracted to other men.

And I didn’t mean to speak bad about heterosexual men. I only mean that I have found value in being part of this particular minority. There are many other things that make me unique, of course. My sexuality strikes me as being especially special.
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I do not understand this. When you as a gay male hang out with guys it’s just like as if I as a girl hung out with guys all the time. See, I love football, and it’s mostly guys that are into it as much as I am. Sometimes I do have a problem with that as I’m a girl and getting invited over in order to “have a drink and watch a game together” could mean something else you know what I mean. In your case, as you like guys, wouldn’t you want to hang out with girls more than being around guys. I mean you’re homosexual, and when you say that every night is guys night, you never know what they want from you, right? I mean I naturally do not feel sexually attracted to friends.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Yeah, I guess it would get more press than gurney’s “I’m a Star Trek fan, guitarist, married with three kids, live in California, and am a vegetarian who hates Sarah Palin, ask me anything!” 😃
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Can we play that one anyway?
 
Exalt said:
Hi again everyone. It’s a busy day for me but I’ll do my best to post as much as I can.

Not in the way that Catholics believe. I know that in orthodox Christianity, free will is defined supernaturally, which doesn’t reflect the way I look at the world.

I like what Christopher Hitchens jokingly says about free will. I have no choice but to believe in it. Expanding on that a little, I find that I act as if I’m an independent being making totally independent choices, but I realize that such a point of view is probably illusory, and that I might have far less control over my actions than I initially think. I find psychological research in this area fascinating, especially when it comes to things like priming.
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does God exist? and if so do you feel you are as wise and holy as he/she is? that is my question for you, please do not be evasive.🙂 God bless you:highprayer:
 
Reading all this makes me grateful that I’m not an atheist.

I am always deeply impressed by the emotional pay-off a person can get when fighting for a cause. That emotional buzz is quite a manipulative little trigger for people.
 
It’s a trip, man, no doubt! This year’s class has been my own “Magical Mystery Tour!” 😛
meltzerboy said:
That’s great to hear, Gurney. And the Outer Limits too! I can sympathize with your feeling of being in the Twilight Zone since I have friends who teach in high school, and I myself am a college instructor at a Catholic university. (My mother was also a public elementary school teacher in New York City.) So I know the drill. Hopefully, you’re off this week as I am.
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